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Announcement on Community-Buidling

bsh1
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6/2/2015 4:35:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
INTRO

One of the chief roles of the president is that of community-building, that is to say, making DDO a vibrant place where people are engaged socially and intellectually and eager to log onto the site. This aspect of the Presidency is where my campaign is placing the most focus because it is the arena that the Presidency can most assuredly and directly impact. It makes sense to prioritize this.

So, with that, I just wanted to take a few moment to explain more how a Bsh1/Zaradi administration would work at community-building. It is also worth pointing out, that of all the bullets listed below, only 1 item requires Juggle's input.

REACHING OUT TO NEW MEMBERS

I think one of the key elements of community-building is reaching out to new members to help them adjust to the site and to keep them coming back. I can think of several good ways of doing this, though I am always open to getting more suggestions.

1. Beginner's Tournaments. I hosted and designed the first official "adopt-a-noob" tournament when I was VP in the Bladerunner administration; this was the precusor to the current "beginner's" tournaments that are designed specifically for new members to help them improve their debating skills. I am also running a beginner's tournament at the moment, which is reaching the stage of completion. I definitely and wholeheartedly support these tournaments, and voiced that support early in this campaign, because I've seen firsthand how they can improve the skills and knowledge of the noobs participating. I think they are a great asset to the site.

2. A Mentorship Program. I think it would be really good to offer mentorship to noobs outside of a formal tournament setting. After all, noobs may need or want assistance at a time when there is no tournament sign-up posted. This program could work by simply having a list of members that noobs could contact as-needed. Zaradi did something similar to this when he offered to critique people's performances on their debates. Making this an established thing, where qualified members are available to provide constructive feedback to new users, would be beneficial. Moreover, this idea could be implemented in many ways; as Sapphique said to me, "put a newbie in a pm with someone experienced while that experienced person is in the process of writing their debate. They could explain how they're going about it, why they're including the arguments they did, how to make sure their points have maximum impact, etc."

3. Assembling a "How To Debate" Guide. I think many users, even those who are good at debate, could benefit from a guide like this, though it is particularly geared toward the novice debater. The idea of the guide is to create a comprehensive explanation of the basics of online debate, including how to format debates, how to write arguments, jargon, how to pick which arguments to prioritize, etc. This guide would contain a treasure trove of information in one central location, in a readable format, and presented in a way that makes sense. For users who feel like they need to supplement their mentoring, or who would rather strike out on their own for whatever reason, a guide like this could be invaluable.

FAN FICTION

Fan fiction has become a very unique part of DDO's fabric. As the only candidate to discuss fan fiction in their platform, I am looking for ways of revamping it's role on DDO and keeping it strong. It has, in a sense, become like DDO's hearth, a place for stories and community, a mechanism of engaging authors and readers alike in the site in a uniquely creative and positive way, and I am continually working on and soliciting new ideas to achieve this goal. I think there are several things that can be done to improve the role and visibility of fan fiction on the site:

1. Moving the "Fan Fiction" Stickied Thread. If this thread were relocated to a more active region of the forums, it would raise the profile of fan fiction amongst the userbase, display links to the fan fictions more prominently, and emphasize their importance on DDO.

2. The Fan Fiction Awards. Having hosted and designed both of the site's fan fiction awards, I know that they are a great way of positively recognizing members of the site. I would like to see these awards stickied in some fashion, and I am considering and designing updates to them which would hopefully expand their capacity to recognize a multiplicity of members in a good way.

3. Supporting Writing Groups. I think it would be excellent for administrations to support cooperation between authors--perhaps even hosting a writing workshop for people aspiring to write fan fictions themselves. That would be the kind of event that gets people involved in the site and that makes them feel "hooked" to DDO.

4. The DDO Blog and Fan Fics. I suggested this idea, and Liz has since voiced her support for it. The idea would be to promote fan fics on the DDO blog and to allow writers to post their fan fics there as well. This wouldn't be a mandatory thing for authors, but giving them the option only empowers them to decide for themselves. This is one idea that Juggle would need to work with us on, but I think, in this case, Juggle would be more amenable to cooperation because they'd be asked to hand over responsibility (allow the users to run the blog) rather than to take on duties.

VOTING IMPROVEMENTS

One of the core issues re: voting improvements is improving voting norms. Critiquing RFDs is a great way to help people learn how to cast a good vote, but I think it is also important to raise the bar on what constitutes a passable RFD, because, quite clearly, not all votes will be good ones. As yet, I am the only candidate to have included a desire to upgrade the threshold for RFDs on their platform.

Awhile back, I proposed a standard of 'sufficiency' be implemented to set the bar higher for was counts as an acceptable RFD. I even crafted a 'Guide to Voting for the 7-point System' to help voters who may want to improve their RFDs. My proposal of sufficiency was something that Bluesteel--a voting moderator--has expressed support for in the past. As president, I would like to start a site-wide dialogue about creating a new standard for what constitutes a passable RFD.

In an ideal world, Juggle would adopt this standard site-wide, and that is something I would attempt to persuade them to do. But, even if Juggle doesn't cooperate, there are workarounds. One solution that was suggested was craft the new standard, and allow debaters to link it in R1 of their debates in order to bind judges voting on that debate to that standard. If debaters say, "Judges must conform to the voting practices list here [insert link]," it would not matter if Juggle were recalcitrant. So, this is a proposal that is within the scope of the president to effect.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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6/2/2015 4:36:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
OTHER

1. Bi-Weekly, Administration Updates. These would provide opportunities to positively recognize good users of the site, including new users, and could be used to direct members to good forums, polls, and debate. Steering people in the direction of quality content will help them stay engaged and interested in the site, and I think that's important. This may also help with voting, because it could recommend good debates which are also in need of votes. As yet, I am the only candidate to promise these kinds of updates.

2. Tournaments. Live tournaments are definitely something I support. In fact, a few weeks ago before I even announced my candidacy, I had mentioned to Airmax that I wanted to use one of the tournaments I had signed up to mod as a live debate tournament. I also agree that hosting tournaments on an extended (2-3 month) roster would be useful, esp. to avoid burnout.

3. Events. One of the best ways to get members involved and to keep retention rates high is to get them hooked on activities on the site. I would support things like DDO Jeopardy, mafia, bringing back RPG games, etc. Getting new members in other sections of the site engaged in mafia, for instance, will make them feel part of the DDO community. So, while these events are open to all members, if the administration makes a specific effort to recruit noobs, it could also help with noob retention and involvement. And, right now, I am the only candidate that has mentioned hosting community-building events as a part of their platform.

4. Bi-weekly, Official Forum Topics. Having official forums topics on substantive issues would help stimulate intellectual discussion on the site, and reinvigorate dying forums. Weekly topics risk the same kind of burnout as monthly tournaments--they need time to gain traction and to fully develop. Having bi-weekly topics allows for that while also providing superb fora and issues for discussion.

TL;DR

The Bsh/Zarad/BV Campaign is focusing on community-building and participation. We have a variety of ideas that do not require Juggle's assent that can make a positive impact on the community, and we have a track-record of success and contributions in building the DDO community. We are also always opens to suggestions from users about ways to improve the site, and are always thinking ourselves about what we can do for DDO.

LINKS

Here are some links to other updates from our campaign, if you're interested:

Campaign AMA: http://www.debate.org...
Platform: http://www.debate.org...
Platform Update 1: http://www.debate.org...
Platform Update 2: http://www.debate.org...
Interview with Annie: http://www.debate.org...
Interview with Hayd: http://www.debate.org...
Live Interview: http://www.debate.org...

As always, I hope to earn your votes this election cycle. Thank you all for reading this :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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ESocialBookworm
Posts: 14,367
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6/2/2015 5:13:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
*building
Solonkr~
I don't care about whether an ideology is "necessary" or not,
I care about how to solve problems,
which is what everyone else should also care about.

Ken~
In essence, the world is fucked up and you can either ignore it, become cynical or bitter about it.

Me~
"BAILEY + SOLON = SAILEY
MY SHIP SAILEY MUST SAIL"

SCREW THAT SHIZ #BANNIE = BAILEY & ANNIE

P.S. Shipped Sailey before it was cannon bitches.
bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:06:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 5:13:35 PM, ESocialBookworm wrote:
*building

Lol...fine, but what are your thoughts on the post itself :P
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TUF
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6/2/2015 6:23:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
http://www.debate.org...

(1) Limit the number of election threads posted by them and people affiliated with their campaigns to a few official topics of discussion. I don't think anyone wants to see daily endorsement threads cropping up. There's no hard limit, but it should be obvious what "too" many threads would be (e.g. the entire front page of the DDO Forum is filled only with election threads all posted within the past 24 hours)

I like this rule :)
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:28:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:23:09 PM, TUF wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

(1) Limit the number of election threads posted by them and people affiliated with their campaigns to a few official topics of discussion.

I like this rule :)

Lol...I only did one today, and I don't have any planned for tomorrow, I promise :P. I also, in my video update, promised not to spam, and I intend to keep that pledge, esp. as the race nears election day. But, I thought it was very important to provide an in-depth explanation of that segment of the platform because I feel like this is where a lot of the campaign debate is going to be. And, I think that was a pretty substantive post--I will never make a bazillion small-ish or content free posts just to dominate the main forum. That I can definitely assure everyone.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:29:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:23:09 PM, TUF wrote:

I really also wanted to start a discussion on the topics I gave in each heading, because I feel like some of them are being under-covered.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
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6/2/2015 6:30:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
As president, I would like to start a site-wide dialogue about creating a new standard for what constitutes a passable RFD.

This might get some flak, but I may like it. There are so many controversies that go into deciding a quality RFD, and this sounds like something more for moderation concern. Also didn't airmax already do one of these?

I totally didn't know bluesteel was the voting moderator, when did this happen?
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
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6/2/2015 6:37:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:29:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:23:09 PM, TUF wrote:

I really also wanted to start a discussion on the topics I gave in each heading, because I feel like some of them are being under-covered.

I don't see any problems with most of them. It might be out of personal preference, but I don't know if I would value the Fan Fiction segment to high. People go through phases here all the time, Rap Battle Phases, Live Debate Phases, Fan fiction phases, youtube series phases. They die and come back, but I am not entirely sure if pushing a lot of time into trying to convince people to start writing them again is a productive use of time. Not to say that is a waste of time, or that it is a negative focus at all.

I like the awards and tourney's idea. I think the mentorship part is great. I don't see any inherant flaws in any of it, and I like that Voting is your major selling point. That is something that effects everyone, and could always use improvements.

The best voting reform policies might do the most selling for me, though this is always a hard one to promise. I think Blade did an awesome job with this, and you were his VP, so I feel like you might have gotten some good ideas with this that don't necessarily involve you having to vote on every single debate yourself.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:39:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:30:09 PM, TUF wrote:
As president, I would like to start a site-wide dialogue about creating a new standard for what constitutes a passable RFD.

This might get some flak, but I may like it. There are so many controversies that go into deciding a quality RFD, and this sounds like something more for moderation concern. Also didn't airmax already do one of these?

I don't think moderation would necessarily have to weigh in. When a debater sets up a debate, and creates rules for that debate, those rules bind not merely the debaters, but also the judges. If, for instance, I say, "a single forfeit results in a auto-loss for the forfeiter," and my adversary forfeits, any vote that gave my adversary the win would be taken down by moderation.

Similarly, if we create a set of standards or rules for what constitutes a good RFD, debaters could include in their rules something like: "Judging on this debate must conform to these guidelines to be permissible," then moderators could conclude that those standards bound the judges, and could remove any votes not in line with those standards.

So, the new standards could be crafted without mod input. However, even though it could be made without mod input, I think it would lose some credibility if it were. I think getting moderation involved in the formative process is therefore a key step, but I think it does fall, ultimately and squarely, in the purview of the President. Also, having a community discourse about it will be help to spread the word about it and give it greater legitimacy.

It could also have the potential to really increasing voting quality on many debates, or to at least better filter out poor votes.

I totally didn't know bluesteel was the voting moderator, when did this happen?

IDK how long ago it was...Maybe 2 months? I am not sure.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
TUF
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6/2/2015 6:47:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:39:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think it does fall, ultimately and squarely, in the purview of the President. Also, having a community discourse about it will be help to spread the word about it and give it greater legitimacy.

I agree. I like it, but I think if you do come up with some guidelines, I'd vote that they put put so some type of community counsel, so that everyone can weigh in on the guidelines, and we can hash out beforehand if there are any discrepancies that could cause problems. That would make it seem a little more fair, and a lot less like it was dictatored. You could use an open voting phase of a few days to pass it, like the supreme court, to see where the majority stands on the voting reform. Might not work out as I picture it, but I think you are right that it could solve problems with voting.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:49:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:37:17 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:29:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:23:09 PM, TUF wrote:

I really also wanted to start a discussion on the topics I gave in each heading, because I feel like some of them are being under-covered.

I don't see any problems with most of them. It might be out of personal preference, but I don't know if I would value the Fan Fiction segment to high. People go through phases here all the time, Rap Battle Phases, Live Debate Phases, Fan fiction phases, youtube series phases. They die and come back, but I am not entirely sure if pushing a lot of time into trying to convince people to start writing them again is a productive use of time. Not to say that is a waste of time, or that it is a negative focus at all.

I think that you're right about that, in the sense that DDO does go through phases, and that to expend too much effort promoting any one thing would be wasteful. However, I think fan fictions are unique--they haven't truly died out. I also think that most of the points I am proposing regarding promoting fan fictions aren't that onerous, and so should be too difficult to get implemented. So, I don't think that I would be spending "a lot of time trying to convince people to start writing them again." Finally, I have a quite a few things I'd like to do, and that requires prioritizing. Ultimately, whatever users want to see done most is what I am going to put at the top of my list, and fan fictions will need to take their place in that hierarchy. I wouldn't sacrifice doing something that was important to the site to promote fan fics. It's a balancing act, but I still feel that fan fics do have a place somewhere in that hierarchy.

I like the awards and tourney's idea. I think the mentorship part is great. I don't see any inherant flaws in any of it, and I like that Voting is your major selling point. That is something that effects everyone, and could always use improvements.

Thanks! I really appreciate that.

The best voting reform policies might do the most selling for me, though this is always a hard one to promise. I think Blade did an awesome job with this, and you were his VP, so I feel like you might have gotten some good ideas with this that don't necessarily involve you having to vote on every single debate yourself.

I certainly think having a high threshold for a "acceptable" RFD would do a lot of good in reducing bad votes. And, I think that there are a variety of ways to produce more votes, e.g. voting awards, updates that suggest debates in need of votes, voting groups, etc. These are all things I'd be willing to undertake; I just think it's important that both quality and (not just) quantity be emphasized.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:51:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:47:04 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:39:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I think it does fall, ultimately and squarely, in the purview of the President. Also, having a community discourse about it will be help to spread the word about it and give it greater legitimacy.

I agree. I like it, but I think if you do come up with some guidelines, I'd vote that they put put so some type of community counsel, so that everyone can weigh in on the guidelines, and we can hash out beforehand if there are any discrepancies that could cause problems.

Agreed. I think that drawing up a rough draft, so to speak, and then presenting it too the community for debate, edits, emendations, etc. would be the way to go. The community has to have input in the process.

That would make it seem a little more fair, and a lot less like it was dictatored.

Agreed.

You could use an open voting phase of a few days to pass it, like the supreme court, to see where the majority stands on the voting reform. Might not work out as I picture it, but I think you are right that it could solve problems with voting.

I think that the open voting phase is a neat idea...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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6/2/2015 6:52:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:39:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:30:09 PM, TUF wrote:
As president, I would like to start a site-wide dialogue about creating a new standard for what constitutes a passable RFD.

This might get some flak, but I may like it. There are so many controversies that go into deciding a quality RFD, and this sounds like something more for moderation concern. Also didn't airmax already do one of these?

I don't think moderation would necessarily have to weigh in. When a debater sets up a debate, and creates rules for that debate, those rules bind not merely the debaters, but also the judges. If, for instance, I say, "a single forfeit results in a auto-loss for the forfeiter," and my adversary forfeits, any vote that gave my adversary the win would be taken down by moderation.

Similarly, if we create a set of standards or rules for what constitutes a good RFD, debaters could include in their rules something like: "Judging on this debate must conform to these guidelines to be permissible," then moderators could conclude that those standards bound the judges, and could remove any votes not in line with those standards.

So, the new standards could be crafted without mod input. However, even though it could be made without mod input, I think it would lose some credibility if it were. I think getting moderation involved in the formative process is therefore a key step, but I think it does fall, ultimately and squarely, in the purview of the President. Also, having a community discourse about it will be help to spread the word about it and give it greater legitimacy.

I can state unequivocally that the mods don't have to enforce the self-imposed rules debaters craft. If we do, that is at our discretion and will depend on the rule's reasonableness and the time pressure it imposes on us, and we certainly won't enforce self-imposed rules we don't agree with.

If rules are crafted without our input, you risk them not being enforced.

The president has a sympathetic ear from the mods, but the president doesn't have the power to unilaterally change how moderation works.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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6/2/2015 6:58:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:52:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:

I can state unequivocally that the mods don't have to enforce the self-imposed rules debaters craft. If we do, that is at our discretion and will depend on the rule's reasonableness and the time pressure it imposes on us, and we certainly won't enforce self-imposed rules we don't agree with.

If the rules are fair and reasonable, and agreed upon by both debaters in the round, would you enforce them?

If rules are crafted without our input, you risk them not being enforced.

Okay, then I would involve the mods, but that was something I had always wanted to do regardless.

The president has a sympathetic ear from the mods, but the president doesn't have the power to unilaterally change how moderation works.

That wasn't what I was proposing. In my experience, mods have always enforced fair and reasonable rules that debaters have imposed. Including rules that require losses due to forfeits and rules that require the debate remained tied. And, I would implement any system of rules that was unreasonable, either. So, I wasn't suggesting that Presidents unilaterally change moderation policy, but rather that they respect and utilize what has--historically--been the case.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bluesteel
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6/2/2015 7:08:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 6:58:00 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:52:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:

I can state unequivocally that the mods don't have to enforce the self-imposed rules debaters craft. If we do, that is at our discretion and will depend on the rule's reasonableness and the time pressure it imposes on us, and we certainly won't enforce self-imposed rules we don't agree with.

If the rules are fair and reasonable, and agreed upon by both debaters in the round, would you enforce them?

It depends on the other factor I mentioned (the time pressure on the mods). If a rule requires me to read the whole debate to see if it was broken, I'm probably not going to enforce it. I simply can't read every debate on DDO.


If rules are crafted without our input, you risk them not being enforced.

Okay, then I would involve the mods, but that was something I had always wanted to do regardless.

The president has a sympathetic ear from the mods, but the president doesn't have the power to unilaterally change how moderation works.

That wasn't what I was proposing. In my experience, mods have always enforced fair and reasonable rules that debaters have imposed. Including rules that require losses due to forfeits and rules that require the debate remained tied. And, I would implement any system of rules that was unreasonable, either. So, I wasn't suggesting that Presidents unilaterally change moderation policy, but rather that they respect and utilize what has--historically--been the case.

I've never been asked to enforce either rule. I might enforce the former but not the latter. If 18 users broken decorum and voted on a debate the debaters would prefer to stay tied, I don't think it's worth the mods time to go through all those votes. Debates are meant to be voted on. If you didn't want judges to vote, you shouldn't have debated in the first place. Or you should have done judge voting and chosen a single judge who promised not to vote. It's not the mods' job to *stop* people from voting.

And airmax and I have never had a discussion about whether a self-imposed rule is a permissible basis for removing an RFD. I'm just saying my own thoughts about whether I'd even recommend removal for violation of a self-imposed rule. It could be that we ultimately reach the decision that self-imposed rules aren't enforceable at all, no matter how reasonable. We just haven't had that discussion yet.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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6/2/2015 7:24:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:08:12 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:58:00 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/2/2015 6:52:38 PM, bluesteel wrote:

I can state unequivocally that the mods don't have to enforce the self-imposed rules debaters craft. If we do, that is at our discretion and will depend on the rule's reasonableness and the time pressure it imposes on us, and we certainly won't enforce self-imposed rules we don't agree with.

If the rules are fair and reasonable, and agreed upon by both debaters in the round, would you enforce them?

It depends on the other factor I mentioned (the time pressure on the mods). If a rule requires me to read the whole debate to see if it was broken, I'm probably not going to enforce it. I simply can't read every debate on DDO.

Fair enough, but I think that that would be the kind of point that a community discussion would bring up and it would be dealt with. Plus, I wouldn't envision having that kind of rule be imposed. But, again, I have always wanted to involve moderation in the process, so regardless, the proposal still works, and that's what matters.

The president has a sympathetic ear from the mods, but the president doesn't have the power to unilaterally change how moderation works.

That wasn't what I was proposing. In my experience, mods have always enforced fair and reasonable rules that debaters have imposed. Including rules that require losses due to forfeits and rules that require the debate remained tied. And, I would implement any system of rules that was unreasonable, either. So, I wasn't suggesting that Presidents unilaterally change moderation policy, but rather that they respect and utilize what has--historically--been the case.

I've never been asked to enforce either rule.

I am thinking back to Airmax, when he did the voting moderation. I remember that he has enforced both rules on debates of mine. So, I was operating based on the historical knowledge available to me. But, regardless, all I wanted to establish was that the proposal was a viable one. As it turns out, as long as their is mod input and approval, it can work. After all, you were the one who suggested the idea.

So, it seems that it's a workable solution to a very real problem.
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bluesteel
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6/2/2015 7:27:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:24:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:

So, it seems that it's a workable solution to a very real problem.

Your response to TUF made it unclear whether you envisioned moderators involved in the process. That's all I wanted clarification on.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
bsh1
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6/2/2015 7:30:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:27:14 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 6/2/2015 7:24:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:

So, it seems that it's a workable solution to a very real problem.

Your response to TUF made it unclear whether you envisioned moderators involved in the process. That's all I wanted clarification on.

Yeah. I definitely think moderation should be involved.

At 6/2/2015 6:39:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
However, even though it could be made without mod input, I think it would lose some credibility if it were. I think getting moderation involved in the formative process is therefore a key step
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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Hayd
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6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 4:35:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:
INTRO

Reaching out to New Members

1. Beginner's Tournaments

Not reallya n announcement, just saying that you will continue them, and not get rid of them, which all the candidates said and would be crazy to ban beginner's tournaments. So good thing you are continuing them...

2. A Mentorship Program

Great Idea, I completely love it. This would help ensure that more quality members join and stay on the site, and will help the community so much. In the past, these programs have not worked well from what I've heard so hopefully this one will.

It took me almost half a year to get the jist of the site on my own and I always wished I could have an experienced DDO legend there to explain everything.

3. Assembling A "How To Debate" Guide

There are already things as such out there;
http://www.debate.org...
One by darkkermit
One by Roylatham
Among others.
This is not necessary and time would be better spent on other projects. On aside note; the mentorship would kind of do that for you since the mentors would be helping the noob set up the debate and such.

Fan Fiction

I agree with everything you said so I have nothing to say about it except for 4.

4. I think you are saying to move the fan fics to the actual DDO blog part of the site as in this.
http://blog.debate.org...
If so, I would not suggest it.
Users have to scroll all the way to the bottom of each page to find it, which most people don't do. So you would have to move the link to the top of the page. Also I think its fine where it is, I mean it would be better if it was more organized but Fan Fics isn't a big enough part of the site where they get there own section devoted specifically for it. I just think time would be better spent doing something else because this is would not as big an improvement as others would.

Voting Improvements

Ya, agree with everything. Expected of each candidate, not anything special.

the only thing out of the ordinary is the "Critiqing of RFDs" which I am very enthusiastic about.

Other
agree with 1, and 2.

3. Events

I agree halfway. I think we need to remember what DDO is really about; debate. I love all of the extra activities such as GHangout, and mafia (which I don't do) and other things. But I think people are making it too much of a deal, they are great as an extra thing, but keep it as a side, the main course is debate.

Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

4. Biweekly, Official Forum Topics

Im guessing this is the same exact thing that Liz did during her presidency, the "topics of the week?"
If so, I would suggest doing it weekly, and just let liz do it because she's the one who started it and is running it right now and that would be one less thing off your back.
But if there is no interest in this, then change it to Bi-weekly, but since there is tons of interest in it as far as I know, make it weekly.

That's my input :)
bsh1
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6/2/2015 7:49:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/2/2015 4:35:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:
INTRO

1. Beginner's Tournaments

Not reallya n announcement, just saying that you will continue them

I am not suggesting that each bullet is an announcement unto itself, but rather that the whole post is an announcement that clarifies where I stand.

2. A Mentorship Program

Great Idea, I completely love it.

Thanks :) I appreciate that.

3. Assembling A "How To Debate" Guide

There are already things as such out there;
This is not necessary and time would be better spent on other projects. On aside note; the mentorship would kind of do that for you since the mentors would be helping the noob set up the debate and such.

None of those debate guides really cover what I think they should cover. Roy's guide is woefully inadequate, IMO. And, if you are new, you may not want to go look at a bunch of different guide, but would rather have the information all in one place.

And sure, for those people who have mentors, it's great. But clearly not every noob can have a mentor--there are too many noobs and too few potential mentors. Having a guide is the next best thing. There are also people who would prefer to self-teach, who may only have one or two questions that don't require a mentor, etc. Having a condensed guide would be useful for all of those reasons. And, as I said to TUF: "Finally, I have a quite a few things I'd like to do, and that requires prioritizing. Ultimately, whatever users want to see done most is what I am going to put at the top of my list, and [the how-to guide] will need to take [its] place in that hierarchy. I wouldn't sacrifice doing something that was important to the site to promote [it]. It's a balancing act, but I still feel that fan fics do have a place somewhere in that hierarchy.

Fan Fiction

I agree with everything you said so I have nothing to say about it except for 4.

4. I think you are saying to move the fan fics to the actual DDO blog part of the site as in this.
http://blog.debate.org...
If so, I would not suggest it.

As I said in the main post, this would be 100% optional. If authors agreed with you, I would do nothing to pressure them to move. I want to give them options, not to force them to do things they don't want to do.

Voting Improvements

Ya, agree with everything. Expected of each candidate, not anything special.

Actually, Debate and Thett have not endorsed this plan. They actually have nothing like it on their platform.

Other
3. Events

I agree halfway. I think we need to remember what DDO is really about; debate. I love all of the extra activities such as GHangout, and mafia (which I don't do) and other things. But I think people are making it too much of a deal, they are great as an extra thing, but keep it as a side, the main course is debate.

Debate may be the center of the site, I don't think we can underestimate the social aspects that keep people coming back. If the social atmosphere is poor, people won't stay, and the quality and quantity of debates will suffer. It's all symbiotic--by increasing the activities, we get people hooked on the site, and those people then usually do debates, and the site as a whole benefits.

Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

Very few members only do mafia--I can only think of 2 off the top of my head. Most mafia players have done debates, and usually several debates. In fact, some of the legendary mafia players (F16, BV, Bluesteel, Danielle, etc.) all are also legendary debaters.

4. Biweekly, Official Forum Topics

Im guessing this is the same exact thing that Liz did during her presidency, the "topics of the week?"

Essentially. And, Liz has done a lot to point out how having tournaments too close to each other creates burnout. I think the same applies to forum topics. So, that's why I favor the bi-weekly set up. And, it really wouldn't be that hard to run.

That's my input :)

Thanks! I appreciate it.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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TUF
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6/2/2015 7:50:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

That's debatable... lol.

But really what people do for entertainment on a free website, should concern only them. The amount of debate that goes down in a mafia game is almost as noticable as a religion forum topic. This is a debate site yes, but that does not mean that other aspects of the site do not include debate, as well as fun. With mafia there is a right or wrong too, a sense of victory can be won from the arguments. Either some was guilty as argued, or they weren't. Even after a debate is won though, it cannot be inherently said that one side was irrevocably more right than the other, and I think that's why Mafia has it's merit.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
bsh1
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6/2/2015 7:53:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:50:59 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

That's debatable... lol.

But really what people do for entertainment on a free website, should concern only them. The amount of debate that goes down in a mafia game is almost as noticable as a religion forum topic. This is a debate site yes, but that does not mean that other aspects of the site do not include debate, as well as fun. With mafia there is a right or wrong too, a sense of victory can be won from the arguments. Either some was guilty as argued, or they weren't. Even after a debate is won though, it cannot be inherently said that one side was irrevocably more right than the other, and I think that's why Mafia has it's merit.

This puts it better than I did, esp. the bold.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Hayd
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6/2/2015 8:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 7:50:59 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

That's debatable... lol.

But really what people do for entertainment on a free website, should concern only them. The amount of debate that goes down in a mafia game is almost as noticable as a religion forum topic. This is a debate site yes, but that does not mean that other aspects of the site do not include debate, as well as fun. With mafia there is a right or wrong too, a sense of victory can be won from the arguments. Either some was guilty as argued, or they weren't. Even after a debate is won though, it cannot be inherently said that one side was irrevocably more right than the other, and I think that's why Mafia has it's merit.

This applies to Bsh and TUF.

Debate.org is a social site. But it is primarily a debate site, hence the name. The forums and mafia and the such create a good friendly debating atmosphere which is geat, it draws people in and makes them comfy. Im not saying tht we take away this.

I am simply saying that we have a reduction in the importance of other things like mafia, and increase the importance of debate. This is only a moderate thing

I basically just feel that this site shoud be a little more about debate, and less about mafia and the such.
whiteflame
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6/2/2015 8:21:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Moreover, this idea could be implemented in many ways; as Sapphique said to me, "put a newbie in a pm with someone experienced while that experienced person is in the process of writing their debate. They could explain how they're going about it, why they're including the arguments they did, how to make sure their points have maximum impact, etc."

I think this is actually a good idea. Well-proposed, Sapphique.
debatability
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6/2/2015 8:42:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 4:35:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:

VOTING IMPROVEMENTS

One of the core issues re: voting improvements is improving voting norms. Critiquing RFDs is a great way to help people learn how to cast a good vote, but I think it is also important to raise the bar on what constitutes a passable RFD, because, quite clearly, not all votes will be good ones. As yet, I am the only candidate to have included a desire to upgrade the threshold for RFDs on their platform.


How would propose changing the standards for an RFD?
bsh1
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6/2/2015 8:44:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 8:42:04 PM, debatability wrote:
At 6/2/2015 4:35:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:

VOTING IMPROVEMENTS

One of the core issues re: voting improvements is improving voting norms. Critiquing RFDs is a great way to help people learn how to cast a good vote, but I think it is also important to raise the bar on what constitutes a passable RFD, because, quite clearly, not all votes will be good ones. As yet, I am the only candidate to have included a desire to upgrade the threshold for RFDs on their platform.


How would propose changing the standards for an RFD?

I think that this is something that ought to be discussed after the elections. Really, creating new standards should be a collaborative effort between the President, moderation, and the community. Ultimately, I would like to see a higher threshold set for what constitutes a good RFD--mere justification of points should not be sufficient. One should demonstrate more analysis than that in an RFD.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Daktoria
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6/2/2015 9:48:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Too much fluff, not enough stuff.

Sounds like a bunch of promises and proposals, but not enough details about how they'll get done.

IOW, same old DDO election.
bsh1
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6/2/2015 10:08:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 9:48:28 PM, Daktoria wrote:
Too much fluff, not enough stuff.

Sounds like a bunch of promises and proposals, but not enough details about how they'll get done.

IOW, same old DDO election.

I think there are a lot of details regarding implementation. What specifically are you concerned about?
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TUF
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6/3/2015 7:38:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/2/2015 8:02:22 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 6/2/2015 7:50:59 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/2/2015 7:34:50 PM, Hayd wrote:
Too many members come hear to do zero debates, and only mafia. Mafia is good as a side, but the debate is what really matters.

That's debatable... lol.

But really what people do for entertainment on a free website, should concern only them. The amount of debate that goes down in a mafia game is almost as noticable as a religion forum topic. This is a debate site yes, but that does not mean that other aspects of the site do not include debate, as well as fun. With mafia there is a right or wrong too, a sense of victory can be won from the arguments. Either some was guilty as argued, or they weren't. Even after a debate is won though, it cannot be inherently said that one side was irrevocably more right than the other, and I think that's why Mafia has it's merit.

This applies to Bsh and TUF.

Debate.org is a social site. But it is primarily a debate site, hence the name. The forums and mafia and the such create a good friendly debating atmosphere which is geat, it draws people in and makes them comfy. Im not saying tht we take away this.

I am simply saying that we have a reduction in the importance of other things like mafia, and increase the importance of debate. This is only a moderate thing

I basically just feel that this site shoud be a little more about debate, and less about mafia and the such.

It's a matter of personal preference, I understand. I know a lot of people only come to the site for one specific reason or another, though. I was more into mafia than debating for most of my time here, and Imabench comes on here purely for the community aspects. Debating isn't as important to some people as it is to others. There are a lot of factions that make this site entertaining, and I think Bsh1 is just saying he realizes that the community is built up from several of these groups and is trying to cater to all of them, not just to the debaters.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227