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Freedom of Speech on DDO

airmax1227
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6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
There has become a bit of an issue lately with complaints about censorship in the Polls section, and I just wanted to take a moment to address that issue, but more importantly address some confusion about what "Freedom of Speech" actually means.

I will first start off by saying that the polls section is intended for and designed to facilitate the creation of polls in a quick and simple way of guaging member opinions. It is NOT an alternative to the forums for those looking for in depth discussions. While it may facilitate that to some degree, those looking for more robust and open discussion have 3 other sections of the site to choose from.

The problem with viewing the Polls section that way is that it's simply not designed for it, and those using it for that purpose are going to find it is far too restrictive. The filter is too finnicky, and I will admit often annoying. But it's intended to weed out redundant and spam content and therefore is necessary.

The other aspect relates to the direct human moderation, and in that regard, a lot of the content is simply viewed as spam (having no content value) and is therefore removed. While the consideration for whether content is appropriate beyond the filter/spam is naturally subjective, the determination is made specifically within the context of that section of the site. in other words, there is less leeway for intentionally controversial posts because there is inherently less ability for that content to have any value, due to the limited discussion possibility.

This is best described in the recent development of many "Racism trolls" that we have seen. These members specifically want to post about things like "Who is worse, blacks or Jews", or "Why are the Jews greedy" etc. The polls section does not facilitate a reasonable discussion on these topics, and while a reasonable, yet controversial topic on ethnicity can take place in the forums, it is simply not possible in the polls section to the degree that makes such content worthwhile. In other words, such a topic is nearly always intended inherenently to be a way to simply irk others, and is therefore spam. If a member legitimately wanted to discuss why the Jews are XYZ, then a forum topic could be created to facilitate that, but as of yet, not a single one of these "racism trolls" has done such a thing to facilitate such a discussion - because a discussion is not the point.

There are also less controversial, but similarly removed content in that section that happens for the same reason. If members want to discuss a controversial issue, there are debates and forums for doing so. Not that a poll can't be controversial in some instances, but it's also a matter of degree and frequency with which these polls are made. The "racism trolls" for example, make one racist poll after another and frequently spam the section.

So what does that ultimately mean then? Well it means that I am indeed censoring topics in the polls section. It means that there are rules that this site has and I make no apologies for that.

There are certainly other aspects to the filter, what is and isn't allowed in the polls section, and discussions otherwise worth having that I'm happy to address. I imagine I will need to clarify some of the issues and touch on some of the gray area things that aren't well defined, and I'll do that when it is appropriate. members can certainly always feel free to PM me for clarification on anything.

The point is though, that if a member wants to have a discussion on an issue, the forums are a better place for it, and much more permissive in facilitating that. Redundant polls, pointless polls, trolling polls, pre-determined results polls etc are all spam and are all removed. Yes, this is censorship, no, I don't have a problem with that.

----------

More importantly, and why I felt the need to post this thread, is the broader issue of "Freedom of speech" that comes up frequently enough that I'm forced to regularly explain via PM why I can personally believe strongly in the US's first ammendment, but somehow feel it's ok for me to limit speech on this website. I think for most of you reading this, it is already obvious.

Recently I was accused of violating peoples freedom of speech, being a fascistic dictatorial zealot, and one member even went as far as accusing me of violating their civil rights by removing content from the site. I don't think it's worth my time replying directly to such things here, but I do think it is important that people understand what "Freedom of speech" actually means.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The above text is what "freedom of speech" means in any meaningful way in the context of the US. It means, that the government can not prosecute you for speech, or limit your speech. Of course there are legal discussions on some limitations, but that's a different discussion.

When someone says "freedom of speech", for it to have any meaning, it must be in reference to the above, or it is used entirely arbitrarily and means almost nothing in this context. In other words, freedom of speech actually means something specific, it does not mean that you have freedom of speech in all contexts to say whatever you want without consequences. Or, to make the point further, it means that your "freedom of speech" is upheld simply by the government not prosecuting you for simply speaking. This would mean therefore, that even if I remove your post, your freedom of speech was indeed upheld, because you weren't prosecuted by the government for it. Your freedom of speech does not mean that you can do and say whatever you like on a privately owned website. Your freedom of speech does not mean that you can tell your boss what you really think if him and not get fired. Your freedom of speech means that the government can not restrict speech in any way, it doesn't have anything to do with me or any other moderator on any privately owned website.

More importantly, the misuse of the term "Freedom of speech" is actually quite detrimental to what it actually means. The first ammendment of the US is quite significant and unique in the US and it means very much to me. There is something we should feel prideful of in the fact that we have such freedom of speech, especially when compared to the rest of the world, and even compared to contries with "freedom of speech", but what seems to me at least, arbitrary speech laws that can be applied randomly, though that's a discussion for another time.

The important thing is that Freedom of Speech is a hugely significant thing, with a specific meaning that needs to be applied legitimately in a context in which it actually applies. That it can be thrown around arbitraily as a de facto argument for any arbitrary thing demeans what "Freedom of speech" actually is. As someone who values it very dearly, I find this especially disappointing.

We diminish the actual value of it when we misuse it, and I hope that those most invested in actual Freedom of speech, and most determined to see it preserved, will avoid using it in such a way, because ignoring what it actually is, and what it actually means to us as a society committed to it, does diminish the inherent value that should be self-evident.

Thank you

/rant
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1harderthanyouthink
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6/7/2015 7:09:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I didn't think you'd ever feel like you'd have to make a thread about this.
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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airmax1227
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6/7/2015 7:13:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:09:46 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I didn't think you'd ever feel like you'd have to make a thread about this.

yeah... but I do today. I have this discussion on freedom of speech frequently enough in PMs that it's starting to burn my time. Now I can just link the thread when I need to since I think it explains my position and the reality of the issue well enough.... I kind of rushed it, but I think its sufficient. I'm sure I'll need some follow-up responses though.
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Zaradi
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6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP
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bsh1
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6/7/2015 7:17:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I agree with all of that. Moderation on DDO is certainly not "dictatorial" or "fascist" or otherwise unfairly burdensome.
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bsh1
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6/7/2015 7:18:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP

Still, it was fun to watch ;)
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airmax1227
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6/7/2015 7:26:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP

It's not just about those complaints in the polls section, though I did want to address that because it's an issue I wanted to repy to, but of this "freedom of speech" thing that has been pervasive forever. I do discuss this issue on a regular basis and it's gotten pretty time consuming for me to have to explain it every single time.

It may have been a bit wordy and direct, but now it's been said so I don't have to post anything about it again.
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Lee001
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6/7/2015 7:45:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you aren't American, freedom of speech dosen't apply to you. :p
But there is a fine line on this. Such as hate talk or threatening people. That's not concidered freedom of speech since you can actually get introuble with the law for it.
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YYW
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6/7/2015 8:08:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP

I think there are some people who are --for reasons of their own, unknown to me-- quite invested in the polls section. I don't understand that, but hey... to each their own.
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airmax1227
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6/7/2015 8:11:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:45:51 PM, Lee001 wrote:
If you aren't American, freedom of speech dosen't apply to you. :p

This would in large part be true.

But there is a fine line on this. Such as hate talk or threatening people. That's not concidered freedom of speech since you can actually get introuble with the law for it.

Threatening people is a different issue, but hate speech is actually covered. Groups like the KKK are allowed to say whatever nonsense they'd like.
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airmax1227
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6/7/2015 8:15:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:08:44 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP

I think there are some people who are --for reasons of their own, unknown to me-- quite invested in the polls section. I don't understand that, but hey... to each their own.

Yeah I don't really get it either, but it is a part of the site and it caters to even people who only want to dedicate their time to that portion of it.

What I especially have a hard time understanding, and what I touched on a little in the above, is the issue poll-exclusive members have with being unable to have an in-depth discussion there due to the restrictions (by the filter or otherwise). It is pretty easy to use the forums, and the restrictions are rather lax. So I don't get it, but oh well...
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YYW
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6/7/2015 8:20:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:15:37 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 6/7/2015 8:08:44 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:15:18 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Whelp, that was a little bit of overkill. This reply to those complaints would be the equivalent of busting out a flamethrower to deal with a small cockroach problem: it was fun to watch, but kiiiiinda overkill xP

I think there are some people who are --for reasons of their own, unknown to me-- quite invested in the polls section. I don't understand that, but hey... to each their own.

Yeah I don't really get it either, but it is a part of the site and it caters to even people who only want to dedicate their time to that portion of it.

What I especially have a hard time understanding, and what I touched on a little in the above, is the issue poll-exclusive members have with being unable to have an in-depth discussion there due to the restrictions (by the filter or otherwise). It is pretty easy to use the forums, and the restrictions are rather lax. So I don't get it, but oh well...

Mind boggling stuff, truly is...
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sadolite
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6/7/2015 8:34:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Some people just don't know pornography when they see it or produce it. (Metaphor)
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

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Wylted
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6/7/2015 8:36:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not even sure why you would take all that time to explain freedom of speech. DDO is private property, they can decide how their property is used.

However I do have one important question would the blacks be better at running the media than the Jews have been?

I can't help but to think that the news would be more interesting, with reporters seeing Feeguson or something and snapping their fingers and being like; "Oh no he didn't, shoot that unarmed nigga" "they goin Ta riot ova dat cracka"

The news casters would range from old to fat people, because of black people's propensity to hire family and friends instead of qualified people when they make it big. Jews tend to do the same, which means they get a low quality person as well, but at the very least they make sure they're competant first.

I'd love to see some reporter with some deep Cajun drawl I can better understand covering Katrina in his overalls with boom mikes continually entering the frame and the camera veering off center occasionally because Jr is still trying to get the hang of that thing.

Not to mention the bits of randomly dancing to absolutely any music at all we'd occasionally catch when somebody thought the camera was off of them. I'd start watching the news again if black folks took over the media.

Yes, I dare say that the blacks would be far better at running the entire media than the Jews have been. I won't debate this though, because I fear people will see the unprofessionalism as a bad thing, while I see it as a refreshing, yet entertaining change.
Vox_Veritas
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6/7/2015 8:39:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:36:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm not even sure why you would take all that time to explain freedom of speech. DDO is private property, they can decide how their property is used.

However I do have one important question would the blacks be better at running the media than the Jews have been?

I can't help but to think that the news would be more interesting, with reporters seeing Feeguson or something and snapping their fingers and being like; "Oh no he didn't, shoot that unarmed nigga" "they goin Ta riot ova dat cracka"

The news casters would range from old to fat people, because of black people's propensity to hire family and friends instead of qualified people when they make it big. Jews tend to do the same, which means they get a low quality person as well, but at the very least they make sure they're competant first.

I'd love to see some reporter with some deep Cajun drawl I can better understand covering Katrina in his overalls with boom mikes continually entering the frame and the camera veering off center occasionally because Jr is still trying to get the hang of that thing.

Not to mention the bits of randomly dancing to absolutely any music at all we'd occasionally catch when somebody thought the camera was off of them. I'd start watching the news again if black folks took over the media.

Yes, I dare say that the blacks would be far better at running the entire media than the Jews have been. I won't debate this though, because I fear people will see the unprofessionalism as a bad thing, while I see it as a refreshing, yet entertaining change.

lol
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Wylted
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6/7/2015 8:44:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Vox Veritas, I know you and several members of the poll section would enjoy that. You're welcome
dsjpk5
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6/7/2015 9:02:22 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Thanks for the clarity.

At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
There has become a bit of an issue lately with complaints about censorship in the Polls section, and I just wanted to take a moment to address that issue, but more importantly address some confusion about what "Freedom of Speech" actually means.

I will first start off by saying that the polls section is intended for and designed to facilitate the creation of polls in a quick and simple way of guaging member opinions. It is NOT an alternative to the forums for those looking for in depth discussions. While it may facilitate that to some degree, those looking for more robust and open discussion have 3 other sections of the site to choose from.

The problem with viewing the Polls section that way is that it's simply not designed for it, and those using it for that purpose are going to find it is far too restrictive. The filter is too finnicky, and I will admit often annoying. But it's intended to weed out redundant and spam content and therefore is necessary.

The other aspect relates to the direct human moderation, and in that regard, a lot of the content is simply viewed as spam (having no content value) and is therefore removed. While the consideration for whether content is appropriate beyond the filter/spam is naturally subjective, the determination is made specifically within the context of that section of the site. in other words, there is less leeway for intentionally controversial posts because there is inherently less ability for that content to have any value, due to the limited discussion possibility.

This is best described in the recent development of many "Racism trolls" that we have seen. These members specifically want to post about things like "Who is worse, blacks or Jews", or "Why are the Jews greedy" etc. The polls section does not facilitate a reasonable discussion on these topics, and while a reasonable, yet controversial topic on ethnicity can take place in the forums, it is simply not possible in the polls section to the degree that makes such content worthwhile. In other words, such a topic is nearly always intended inherenently to be a way to simply irk others, and is therefore spam. If a member legitimately wanted to discuss why the Jews are XYZ, then a forum topic could be created to facilitate that, but as of yet, not a single one of these "racism trolls" has done such a thing to facilitate such a discussion - because a discussion is not the point.

There are also less controversial, but similarly removed content in that section that happens for the same reason. If members want to discuss a controversial issue, there are debates and forums for doing so. Not that a poll can't be controversial in some instances, but it's also a matter of degree and frequency with which these polls are made. The "racism trolls" for example, make one racist poll after another and frequently spam the section.

So what does that ultimately mean then? Well it means that I am indeed censoring topics in the polls section. It means that there are rules that this site has and I make no apologies for that.

There are certainly other aspects to the filter, what is and isn't allowed in the polls section, and discussions otherwise worth having that I'm happy to address. I imagine I will need to clarify some of the issues and touch on some of the gray area things that aren't well defined, and I'll do that when it is appropriate. members can certainly always feel free to PM me for clarification on anything.

The point is though, that if a member wants to have a discussion on an issue, the forums are a better place for it, and much more permissive in facilitating that. Redundant polls, pointless polls, trolling polls, pre-determined results polls etc are all spam and are all removed. Yes, this is censorship, no, I don't have a problem with that.

----------

More importantly, and why I felt the need to post this thread, is the broader issue of "Freedom of speech" that comes up frequently enough that I'm forced to regularly explain via PM why I can personally believe strongly in the US's first ammendment, but somehow feel it's ok for me to limit speech on this website. I think for most of you reading this, it is already obvious.

Recently I was accused of violating peoples freedom of speech, being a fascistic dictatorial zealot, and one member even went as far as accusing me of violating their civil rights by removing content from the site. I don't think it's worth my time replying directly to such things here, but I do think it is important that people understand what "Freedom of speech" actually means.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

The above text is what "freedom of speech" means in any meaningful way in the context of the US. It means, that the government can not prosecute you for speech, or limit your speech. Of course there are legal discussions on some limitations, but that's a different discussion.

When someone says "freedom of speech", for it to have any meaning, it must be in reference to the above, or it is used entirely arbitrarily and means almost nothing in this context. In other words, freedom of speech actually means something specific, it does not mean that you have freedom of speech in all contexts to say whatever you want without consequences. Or, to make the point further, it means that your "freedom of speech" is upheld simply by the government not prosecuting you for simply speaking. This would mean therefore, that even if I remove your post, your freedom of speech was indeed upheld, because you weren't prosecuted by the government for it. Your freedom of speech does not mean that you can do and say whatever you like on a privately owned website. Your freedom of speech does not mean that you can tell your boss what you really think if him and not get fired. Your freedom of speech means that the government can not restrict speech in any way, it doesn't have anything to do with me or any other moderator on any privately owned website.

More importantly, the misuse of the term "Freedom of speech" is actually quite detrimental to what it actually means. The first ammendment of the US is quite significant and unique in the US and it means very much to me. There is something we should feel prideful of in the fact that we have such freedom of speech, especially when compared to the rest of the world, and even compared to contries with "freedom of speech", but what seems to me at least, arbitrary speech laws that can be applied randomly, though that's a discussion for another time.

The important thing is that Freedom of Speech is a hugely significant thing, with a specific meaning that needs to be applied legitimately in a context in which it actually applies. That it can be thrown around arbitraily as a de facto argument for any arbitrary thing demeans what "Freedom of speech" actually is. As someone who values it very dearly, I find this especially disappointing.

We diminish the actual value of it when we misuse it, and I hope that those most invested in actual Freedom of speech, and most determined to see it preserved, will avoid using it in such a way, because ignoring what it actually is, and what it actually means to us as a society committed to it, does diminish the inherent value that should be self-evident.

Thank you

/rant
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Diqiucun_Cunmin
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6/7/2015 10:24:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
The abuse of the whole concept of freedom of speech is not just a DDO issue. It is an issue IRL as well, and only when people understand the true meaning of FOS IRL will they also apply it on DDO.

Airmax posted the US' definition of FoS and while it may differ from country from country, the basic idea is the same everywhere. The state or government cannot impose sanctions on people for what they have said. It does not say anything about whether schools or corporations can restrict speech. It does not say anything about whether individuals can request others not to say something. And it was never, ever intended, by any means, to be a way of defending the dumb, untactful things that you say.

Misconceptions about FoS are abound IRL, or at least that's how it goes here. For example, it's hard for media critical of the government to survive because businesses will generally pull advertisements out of these media (they have important business interests in China). This is often cited as a violation of FoS, but it isn't. There was no censorship by the state, and there were no legal sanctions imposed on speech.

Then there's the politicians, both pro-Beijing and pro-democracy, who defend the dumb things they say with the excuse 'freedom of speech'...

I really think that the actual meaning of FoS needs to be better known IRL, or airmax will keep getting PMs.
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RevNge
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6/7/2015 10:34:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:36:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm not even sure why you would take all that time to explain freedom of speech. DDO is private property, they can decide how their property is used.

However I do have one important question would the blacks be better at running the media than the Jews have been?

I can't help but to think that the news would be more interesting, with reporters seeing Feeguson or something and snapping their fingers and being like; "Oh no he didn't, shoot that unarmed nigga" "they goin Ta riot ova dat cracka"

The news casters would range from old to fat people, because of black people's propensity to hire family and friends instead of qualified people when they make it big. Jews tend to do the same, which means they get a low quality person as well, but at the very least they make sure they're competant first.

I'd love to see some reporter with some deep Cajun drawl I can better understand covering Katrina in his overalls with boom mikes continually entering the frame and the camera veering off center occasionally because Jr is still trying to get the hang of that thing.

Not to mention the bits of randomly dancing to absolutely any music at all we'd occasionally catch when somebody thought the camera was off of them. I'd start watching the news again if black folks took over the media.

Yes, I dare say that the blacks would be far better at running the entire media than the Jews have been. I won't debate this though, because I fear people will see the unprofessionalism as a bad thing, while I see it as a refreshing, yet entertaining change.

This made my night.
BlackVoid
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6/7/2015 10:51:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:17:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I agree with all of that. Moderation on DDO is certainly not "dictatorial" or "fascist" or otherwise unfairly burdensome.

This.

Go on any other forum and you'll see moderation is a lot more strict elsewhere. On Operation Sports, I see people being banned just for posting unpopular opinions.

On a video game website I used to use, a mod banned the most popular player in the community for a month, just for humorously posting this video: https://www.youtube.com...

Apparently it was considered "obscene material".

This site has always had the most lenient moderation of any site I've seen. Thinking its too strict is...off base.
RevNge
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6/7/2015 10:57:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 10:51:27 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:17:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I agree with all of that. Moderation on DDO is certainly not "dictatorial" or "fascist" or otherwise unfairly burdensome.

This.

Go on any other forum and you'll see moderation is a lot more strict elsewhere. On Operation Sports, I see people being banned just for posting unpopular opinions.

On a video game website I used to use, a mod banned the most popular player in the community for a month, just for humorously posting this video: https://www.youtube.com...

I wonder how long I would have been banned if I posted Lemonparty on there.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
Posts: 12,398
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6/7/2015 10:58:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 10:57:24 PM, RevNge wrote:
At 6/7/2015 10:51:27 PM, BlackVoid wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:17:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I agree with all of that. Moderation on DDO is certainly not "dictatorial" or "fascist" or otherwise unfairly burdensome.

This.

Go on any other forum and you'll see moderation is a lot more strict elsewhere. On Operation Sports, I see people being banned just for posting unpopular opinions.

On a video game website I used to use, a mod banned the most popular player in the community for a month, just for humorously posting this video: https://www.youtube.com...

I wonder how long I would have been banned if I posted Lemonparty on there.

You should try it.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Kyle_the_Heretic
Posts: 748
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6/7/2015 10:59:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

It has been my experience that those who most aggressively demand (their version of) freedom of speech , deny it just as aggressively, if not more so, to others.
Thinking is extremely taxing on the gullible, and it takes hours to clear the smoke.
Ragnar
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6/7/2015 10:59:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
Recently I was accused of violating peoples freedom of speech, being a fascistic dictatorial zealot, and one member even went as far as accusing me of violating their civil rights by removing content from the site.

1. They make you sound way more awesome than you actually are (since to violate their civil rights, you'd have to have power over the government, instead of private property).

2. I am 95% positive you already posted all this several times before (in fragmented form); while linking it may be a good idea, perhaps the next president should do a project to build a Google Doc FAQ of common site complaints (such as "Is DDO infringing on my civil rights?").
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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6/7/2015 11:44:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I love this. I'll try and do a similar one for all the responses I get from the people being PM'd about losing their votes/voting privileges.
airmax1227
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6/8/2015 12:05:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 8:36:33 PM, Wylted wrote:
I'm not even sure why you would take all that time to explain freedom of speech. DDO is private property, they can decide how their property is used.

Unfortunately, this is a fact that isn't as apparent to some as it should be, thus I felt I should make it clear. While I don't expect those members who have accused me of the above things to post in this thread, I'm certain they have read it.

However I do have one important question would the blacks be better at running the media than the Jews have been?


I'll give it some thought and bring it up at our next meeting.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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6/8/2015 12:16:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 10:59:05 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
Recently I was accused of violating peoples freedom of speech, being a fascistic dictatorial zealot, and one member even went as far as accusing me of violating their civil rights by removing content from the site.

1. They make you sound way more awesome than you actually are (since to violate their civil rights, you'd have to have power over the government, instead of private property).


I like to think my increased awesomeness can be guaged independently from my ability to violate peoples civil rights, but I see your point.

2. I am 95% positive you already posted all this several times before (in fragmented form); while linking it may be a good idea, perhaps the next president should do a project to build a Google Doc FAQ of common site complaints (such as "Is DDO infringing on my civil rights?").

Yeah, I've definitely talked about it in before, and certainly engaged the issue to some extent, but I've never really talked about it at length. It's always been a couple quick responses about the site and how it relates to freedom of speech.

I think a couple basic paragraphs on it might be worthwhile, though I'm not sure directly responding to the civil rights question is necessary. I do hope that's a rare concern.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,240
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6/8/2015 12:23:07 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/7/2015 11:44:51 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 6/7/2015 7:07:26 PM, airmax1227 wrote:

I love this. I'll try and do a similar one for all the responses I get from the people being PM'd about losing their votes/voting privileges.

haha oh man... I could go on an even longer rant about that

I think the basic point with this is that voting on DDO is not a "right", and there's a specific reason we call them "voting privileges".

I could go on and on for awhile about people who've argued that I'm infringing on their "rights" and that I might face legal action.

"Yeah, so, I votebombed 10 people in an hour... voting is my right and I'll do whatever I want with my vote"....

...and about 50 variations of that and worse.

I'm sure you've got plenty of stories to tell about this kind of thing now.

Welcome to hell F-16, your help is very much appreciated.
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Adam_Godzilla
Posts: 2,487
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6/8/2015 1:01:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Don't worry Airmax, they're just trying to get under your skin.
New episode of OUTSIDERS: http://www.debate.org...
Episode 4 - They walk among us
airmax1227
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6/8/2015 1:21:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 1:01:39 AM, Adam_Godzilla wrote:
Don't worry Airmax, they're just trying to get under your skin.

I'm pretty good at knowing when members are just trying to have fun with me or troll me. There are some who do it frequently and I'm happy to even play along.

If that were the case here I wouldn't have given it much thought since just trying to get under my skin isn't something I care too much about - it pretty much goes with the territory.

The reality is though that there are people who don't realize (or wont accept) what I have detailed above, and so I felt it was necessary to explain it.
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