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Censorship and Voting rights Removal

Preston
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6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Recently I had a vote removed, while not a huge issue in and of its self I lost my right to vote. There was no warning and was no reason. It was not a repeated offense, after this ban i was unable to fix other votes i felt may not fit the quota and they were removed as well. so this is the thread(PM) between me and F-16.

https://docs.google.com...

I would understand if i vote bombed several places or gave no RFD and just a vote, however I feel 2/3 of the votes were super well explained, and the 1 I didn't (if you look at all of them you will see which one) should have been removed however a warning should have been issued.

However instead of a warning I received a strait out ban on a vote that i felt was acceptable(http://www.debate.org...).

I do however see I can improve.

The DDO Voting guide (http://www.debate.org...)
States - Repeated bad voting will result in your voting privileges being suspended. Your privileges an also be suspended if you are a new user and you issue a vote that is so bad that it is clear you are not aware of the site standards for voting (e.g. placing only a single "." in the RFD field for a seven point vote)

however It was not a repeated removal I was banned after 1 removal. I do not see myself as a new member, I hope you don't either (1 Year+).

So why did I lose my ability to vote after 1 offence? I have notified Airmax, who is more reasonable, and Im sure he will understand and see that the purpose of banning voting is to:
A) Stop abuse
and/or
B) Teach proper Voting Etiquette.

If this is the case I had no chance to be taught because instead of issuing a warning I lost the ability all together.

I would like to hear your opinions on this occurrence and what actions I should take/ what I could have done better in the allotted space for voting, I understand that i can comment the RFD, but in the RFD what was so substantial that I should lose my ability to vote? How had I shown that I didn't understand the etiquette for voting strait out of the gate?

I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 3:38:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 4:30 Central Time I will be going offline, Do not fear though I will be here to read your opinion on the situation at 8am Central Time tomorrow.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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6/8/2015 3:53:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Giving entire PMs publicly is a bannable offense if done repeatedly.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Preston
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6/8/2015 3:55:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:53:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Giving entire PMs publicly is a bannable offense if done repeatedly.

Well hopefully repeatedly will uphold unlike in my issue, once again this thread is not a critique of the admins but instead a call for advice.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Lexus
Posts: 169
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6/8/2015 3:55:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Your votes were certainly not good.
The vote you made on page one was entirely bad - it was basically the same as "pro wins".
The vote on page 3 I don't feel as though should be left on a debate, but it's not entirely bad, just not explained well enough. Its removal is justified at least to me.
Vote on page 4 was terrible. "This means logic behind claims", okay, that doesn't help a debater get good feedback on how they can improve/what they did well.
You're just a drama llama
1harderthanyouthink
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6/8/2015 3:55:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
And I only looked at your first two votes, and you probably do not know the standard, from what I'm reading.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/8/2015 3:55:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I believe you're not allowed to publicly post PMs ("private" messages) with people on the site.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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6/8/2015 3:56:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:55:03 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:53:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Giving entire PMs publicly is a bannable offense if done repeatedly.

Well hopefully repeatedly will uphold unlike in my issue, once again this thread is not a critique of the admins but instead a call for advice.

You did repeatedly make bad votes.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
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6/8/2015 3:56:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lastly, moderators are not obligated to tell you when you've lost privileges.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/8/2015 3:57:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am also hesitant to comment on anything until one of the mods contributes.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Preston
Posts: 1,113
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6/8/2015 3:58:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:56:06 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:55:03 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:53:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Giving entire PMs publicly is a bannable offense if done repeatedly.

Well hopefully repeatedly will uphold unlike in my issue, once again this thread is not a critique of the admins but instead a call for advice.

You did repeatedly make bad votes.

Read what occurred, I was banned after 1 vote, this disallows my ability to correct the other 2. Because All votes occurred at once this is essentially one bad vote.

However the second vote I feel was fine as well as the Third.

How can i better improve within the allotted chars provided?
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 3:59:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:57:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I am also hesitant to comment on anything until one of the mods contributes.

I also received the ban after 1 removal, not 2 or 3, it was prior to the other 2.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
bsh1
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6/8/2015 4:00:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:59:17 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:57:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I am also hesitant to comment on anything until one of the mods contributes.

I also received the ban after 1 removal, not 2 or 3, it was prior to the other 2.

Sure, but I need to hear the moderators' reasoning. To make a balanced assessment, one should get all sides of the story first.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Preston
Posts: 1,113
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6/8/2015 4:01:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:00:46 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:59:17 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:57:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I am also hesitant to comment on anything until one of the mods contributes.

I also received the ban after 1 removal, not 2 or 3, it was prior to the other 2.

Sure, but I need to hear the moderators' reasoning. To make a balanced assessment, one should get all sides of the story first.

The posted Document has their provided reasoning, Again im just looking for advice.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:04:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:55:21 PM, Lexus wrote:
Your votes were certainly not good.
The vote you made on page one was entirely bad - it was basically the same as "pro wins".
The vote on page 3 I don't feel as though should be left on a debate, but it's not entirely bad, just not explained well enough. Its removal is justified at least to me.
Vote on page 4 was terrible. "This means logic behind claims", okay, that doesn't help a debater get good feedback on how they can improve/what they did well.
You're just a drama llama

I appreciate the feedback, Ill be sure to be more specific, and i agree the first was not the best but i couldn't improve post 2-3 because my ability to vote was removed at 1.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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6/8/2015 4:04:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:58:35 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:56:06 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:55:03 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:53:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Giving entire PMs publicly is a bannable offense if done repeatedly.

Well hopefully repeatedly will uphold unlike in my issue, once again this thread is not a critique of the admins but instead a call for advice.

You did repeatedly make bad votes.

Read what occurred, I was banned after 1 vote, this disallows my ability to correct the other 2. Because All votes occurred at once this is essentially one bad vote.

They probably just hadn't removed the other two yet.

However the second vote I feel was fine as well as the Third.

I didn't read the third, but the second should've been removed.

How can i better improve within the allotted chars provided?

Say "RFD in comments" and give expanded ones there.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:06:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.

Idk, i felt it was justified, but i got limited feedback on how to improve so im asking how I can, what could i have added in the allotted chars to improve my rfd?
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/8/2015 4:06:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM, Preston wrote:
Recently I had a vote removed, while not a huge issue in and of its self I lost my right to vote. There was no warning and was no reason. It was not a repeated offense, after this ban i was unable to fix other votes i felt may not fit the quota and they were removed as well. so this is the thread(PM) between me and F-16.

https://docs.google.com...

I would understand if i vote bombed several places or gave no RFD and just a vote, however I feel 2/3 of the votes were super well explained, and the 1 I didn't (if you look at all of them you will see which one) should have been removed however a warning should have been issued.

However instead of a warning I received a strait out ban on a vote that i felt was acceptable(http://www.debate.org...).

I do however see I can improve.

The DDO Voting guide (http://www.debate.org...)
States - Repeated bad voting will result in your voting privileges being suspended. Your privileges an also be suspended if you are a new user and you issue a vote that is so bad that it is clear you are not aware of the site standards for voting (e.g. placing only a single "." in the RFD field for a seven point vote)

however It was not a repeated removal I was banned after 1 removal. I do not see myself as a new member, I hope you don't either (1 Year+).

So why did I lose my ability to vote after 1 offence? I have notified Airmax, who is more reasonable, and Im sure he will understand and see that the purpose of banning voting is to:
A) Stop abuse
and/or
B) Teach proper Voting Etiquette.

If this is the case I had no chance to be taught because instead of issuing a warning I lost the ability all together.

I would like to hear your opinions on this occurrence and what actions I should take/ what I could have done better in the allotted space for voting, I understand that i can comment the RFD, but in the RFD what was so substantial that I should lose my ability to vote? How had I shown that I didn't understand the etiquette for voting strait out of the gate?

I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.

Firstly, I hope you got F16's permission to post his PMs like this.

And, you didn't really give F16 much opportunity to elucidate his point. 24 hours between his explanation and your posting this is a bit impatient. Again, I'll wait for him to comment.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Preston
Posts: 1,113
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6/8/2015 4:06:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 3:55:40 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I believe you're not allowed to publicly post PMs ("private" messages) with people on the site.

I didnt see any rules in the Terms or in the general rules posted by airmac on PMS
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:07:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:06:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM, Preston wrote:
Recently I had a vote removed, while not a huge issue in and of its self I lost my right to vote. There was no warning and was no reason. It was not a repeated offense, after this ban i was unable to fix other votes i felt may not fit the quota and they were removed as well. so this is the thread(PM) between me and F-16.

https://docs.google.com...

I would understand if i vote bombed several places or gave no RFD and just a vote, however I feel 2/3 of the votes were super well explained, and the 1 I didn't (if you look at all of them you will see which one) should have been removed however a warning should have been issued.

However instead of a warning I received a strait out ban on a vote that i felt was acceptable(http://www.debate.org...).

I do however see I can improve.

The DDO Voting guide (http://www.debate.org...)
States - Repeated bad voting will result in your voting privileges being suspended. Your privileges an also be suspended if you are a new user and you issue a vote that is so bad that it is clear you are not aware of the site standards for voting (e.g. placing only a single "." in the RFD field for a seven point vote)

however It was not a repeated removal I was banned after 1 removal. I do not see myself as a new member, I hope you don't either (1 Year+).

So why did I lose my ability to vote after 1 offence? I have notified Airmax, who is more reasonable, and Im sure he will understand and see that the purpose of banning voting is to:
A) Stop abuse
and/or
B) Teach proper Voting Etiquette.

If this is the case I had no chance to be taught because instead of issuing a warning I lost the ability all together.

I would like to hear your opinions on this occurrence and what actions I should take/ what I could have done better in the allotted space for voting, I understand that i can comment the RFD, but in the RFD what was so substantial that I should lose my ability to vote? How had I shown that I didn't understand the etiquette for voting strait out of the gate?

I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.

Firstly, I hope you got F16's permission to post his PMs like this.

And, you didn't really give F16 much opportunity to elucidate his point. 24 hours between his explanation and your posting this is a bit impatient. Again, I'll wait for him to comment.

Ill continue to wait for posts and advice from him on improvement, i just wanted to know what the public thinks i can do to improve the posts that were removed.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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6/8/2015 4:07:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:06:12 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.

Idk, i felt it was justified, but i got limited feedback on how to improve so im asking how I can, what could i have added in the allotted chars to improve my rfd?

Read Bluesteel's voting guides.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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6/8/2015 4:08:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:07:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:12 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.

Idk, i felt it was justified, but i got limited feedback on how to improve so im asking how I can, what could i have added in the allotted chars to improve my rfd?

Read Bluesteel's voting guides.

+1
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
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6/8/2015 4:09:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:07:43 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM, Preston wrote:
I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.

Firstly, I hope you got F16's permission to post his PMs like this.

And, you didn't really give F16 much opportunity to elucidate his point. 24 hours between his explanation and your posting this is a bit impatient. Again, I'll wait for him to comment.

Ill continue to wait for posts and advice from him on improvement, i just wanted to know what the public thinks i can do to improve the posts that were removed.

Seeking public feedback is good, but you have to be careful to not violate users' privacy in doing so.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Preston
Posts: 1,113
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6/8/2015 4:12:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:09:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:07:43 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM, Preston wrote:
I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.

Firstly, I hope you got F16's permission to post his PMs like this.

And, you didn't really give F16 much opportunity to elucidate his point. 24 hours between his explanation and your posting this is a bit impatient. Again, I'll wait for him to comment.

Ill continue to wait for posts and advice from him on improvement, i just wanted to know what the public thinks i can do to improve the posts that were removed.

Seeking public feedback is good, but you have to be careful to not violate users' privacy in doing so.

Again, ive stated that it doesn't violate the posted Terms of Use or Privacy Policy, if he wishes to remove this or edit my post to remove himself from it he may, but at this time I dont seek conflict nor does it violate any policies.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:14:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:07:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:12 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.

Idk, i felt it was justified, but i got limited feedback on how to improve so im asking how I can, what could i have added in the allotted chars to improve my rfd?

Read Bluesteel's voting guides.

See but i felt my second one fit it, but apparently not, what could i have added? Ive already reviewed the guide, as well examined other posts as examples, bluesteels are great but im obviously still learning, and though i felt it was a par vote it was still removed.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:15:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Out of respect for administration i have removed the link, if they feel it is acceptable to release i will , the posts indicate ill post later, i would just like advice on improving my votes.
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
Preston
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6/8/2015 4:18:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:08:43 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:07:57 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:12 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:05:09 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:01:26 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Second vote looks fine to me. Not great, but certainly not bad enough to be removed.

I think under the new standard it is.

Idk, i felt it was justified, but i got limited feedback on how to improve so im asking how I can, what could i have added in the allotted chars to improve my rfd?

Read Bluesteel's voting guides.

+1

I have and will continue to consult this, I was unaware of its existence during the first Vote. Ty :)
"Never argue with an idiot. They will only bring you down to their level and beat you with experience." - George Carlin
bsh1
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6/8/2015 4:24:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/8/2015 4:12:42 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:09:25 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:07:43 PM, Preston wrote:
At 6/8/2015 4:06:17 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 6/8/2015 3:34:02 PM, Preston wrote:
I don't mean to cause contention I simply wish to bring this to the attention of the community, ask forgiveness for my inability to understand the reasoning behind my ban, and better myself and the community.

Firstly, I hope you got F16's permission to post his PMs like this.

And, you didn't really give F16 much opportunity to elucidate his point. 24 hours between his explanation and your posting this is a bit impatient. Again, I'll wait for him to comment.

Ill continue to wait for posts and advice from him on improvement, i just wanted to know what the public thinks i can do to improve the posts that were removed.

Seeking public feedback is good, but you have to be careful to not violate users' privacy in doing so.

Again, ive stated that it doesn't violate the posted Terms of Use or Privacy Policy, if he wishes to remove this or edit my post to remove himself from it he may, but at this time I dont seek conflict nor does it violate any policies.

It actually does violate a tacit rule. Moderation doesn't permit PMs to be publicly posted without the acquiescence of all involved. But, I appreciate that you removed the link.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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