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tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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6/15/2015 10:46:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

From what I've heard, older and more experienced members do not think your votes of high quality. You're new, however, so being a below-average voter is not really surprising, nor is it a testament to your intelligence. The advice I can give you is that voting requires a reasonably substantial amount of effort and time.

I'm also sure that some of the older members would help you learn how to vote.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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6/15/2015 11:38:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Hmmm... well, if you'd like, we can go through one or two of your votes and I'll give you some feedback. I can't really just look at a random vote and give you feedback on it, nor do I feel it's proper for me to give you feedback on my debate with FourTrouble. So that limits us to debates where I've voted as well, or debates where I could read through it and figure out what's present/absent from your vote.

We might have enough on the former. I'm noticing that we both voted on these debates:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

If you think either or both of these are representative of your voting, we can cover them. I could be missing others, so if you happen to notice a better one, you can let me know.
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2015 5:34:56 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 11:38:08 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Hmmm... well, if you'd like, we can go through one or two of your votes and I'll give you some feedback. I can't really just look at a random vote and give you feedback on it, nor do I feel it's proper for me to give you feedback on my debate with FourTrouble. So that limits us to debates where I've voted as well, or debates where I could read through it and figure out what's present/absent from your vote.

We might have enough on the former. I'm noticing that we both voted on these debates:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

If you think either or both of these are representative of your voting, we can cover them. I could be missing others, so if you happen to notice a better one, you can let me know.

Those two votes of mine were fairly bad, especially since I voted on the former only based on S&G to rid a judge nomination glitch and didn't have time. But I would appreciate it if you gave me feedback on the latter.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/16/2015 5:36:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

I think ur votes are the bomb.. heh :) (pun intended)
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:35:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Judge this one and I'll tell you. I wait until the voting period is over to voice my opinion on the results of voting this far.

Oh and yes, I realized I didn't provide the best arguments possible, after the first round, I realized how bored I was with the debate already.
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2015 9:36:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:35:02 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Judge this one and I'll tell you. I wait until the voting period is over to voice my opinion on the results of voting this far.

Oh and yes, I realized I didn't provide the best arguments possible, after the first round, I realized how bored I was with the debate already.

Which one?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:42:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:36:47 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:35:02 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Judge this one and I'll tell you. I wait until the voting period is over to voice my opinion on the results of voting this far.

Oh and yes, I realized I didn't provide the best arguments possible, after the first round, I realized how bored I was with the debate already.

Which one?

Lol, I thought I posted it http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:44:17 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

I apologize. This is a terrible coincidence. I didn't realize you've already voted on it. Please disregard my request
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2015 9:44:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:42:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:36:47 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:35:02 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Judge this one and I'll tell you. I wait until the voting period is over to voice my opinion on the results of voting this far.

Oh and yes, I realized I didn't provide the best arguments possible, after the first round, I realized how bored I was with the debate already.

Which one?

Lol, I thought I posted it http://www.debate.org...

I've already voted ... 1 month ago ...
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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6/16/2015 9:44:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

it should be an option for 10,000 characters in the RFD
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2015 9:45:34 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:44:50 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

it should be an option for 10,000 characters in the RFD

*My* votes
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:46:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:44:22 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:42:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:36:47 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/16/2015 9:35:02 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Judge this one and I'll tell you. I wait until the voting period is over to voice my opinion on the results of voting this far.

Oh and yes, I realized I didn't provide the best arguments possible, after the first round, I realized how bored I was with the debate already.

Which one?

Lol, I thought I posted it http://www.debate.org...

I've already voted ... 1 month ago ...

Well, that was a month ago, and I thought the vote was horrible. I haven't looked at your votes recently, but that one sucked. It is wrong of me to critique anything specific. I don't want you to change the vote, and it's wrong to give people too much crap who vote against you.

So thank you for reading that debate at least
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:47:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Did you ever read Bluesteels voting guide by the way?

He has a good how to manual. I wish it would get stickied
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2015 9:48:36 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:47:46 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Did you ever read Bluesteels voting guide by the way?

He has a good how to manual. I wish it would get stickied

Yes.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2015 9:49:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
If you just send a link to 3 votes you're really proud of, I'd be happy to look at them, PREFERRABLY stuff already in the voting period, so I have some incentive to read the debate
ClashnBoom
Posts: 886
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6/16/2015 11:10:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 9:47:46 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Did you ever read Bluesteels voting guide by the way?

He has a good how to manual. I wish it would get stickied

*She
I will change my sig weekly. Week 4.

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Clumsy alien Jar Jar Binks was introduced in The Phantom Menace for comic relief, but he was initially a two-faced mercenary who was to betray Qui-Gon Jinn, a Jedi Master played by Liam Neeson.

Joke of the week:
Nerd 1: "Why can't you trust atoms?"
Nerd 2: : "Cause they make everything up!"
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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6/16/2015 12:47:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 5:34:56 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/15/2015 11:38:08 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Hmmm... well, if you'd like, we can go through one or two of your votes and I'll give you some feedback. I can't really just look at a random vote and give you feedback on it, nor do I feel it's proper for me to give you feedback on my debate with FourTrouble. So that limits us to debates where I've voted as well, or debates where I could read through it and figure out what's present/absent from your vote.

We might have enough on the former. I'm noticing that we both voted on these debates:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

If you think either or both of these are representative of your voting, we can cover them. I could be missing others, so if you happen to notice a better one, you can let me know.

Those two votes of mine were fairly bad, especially since I voted on the former only based on S&G to rid a judge nomination glitch and didn't have time. But I would appreciate it if you gave me feedback on the latter.

So, obviously, we disagreed in our decisions here. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good deal of overlap between our assessments of the debate (there is), but it does mean that we weighed and analyzed various arguments a little differently.

The first problem I see is that you seem to be going with Con's portrayal of what term limits are. Pro did actually contest this, and I don't think it makes sense to go with it the way you did here. There's a difference between term limits and term length limits, i.e. one limits the number of terms a person can be president, and the other limits the length of those terms. The latter remains in effect in Pro's case, the former changes. Hence, the objective criteria for when elections are held remains intact, and so I don't think that Con's refutation has nearly the force you're discussing here. I do agree that Con won this point, but only on a severely mitigated argument about presidents effectively becoming tyrants, since there's no reason to believe that the voting and impeachment systems wouldn't solve for that.

The second problem is how you assessed the counterplan. As I poitned out in my RFD, I was confused about how it actually functioned, and much of the details of how it would work just seemed to be missing. You're right that it allows for someone who is ideal to get an extra term or two, but I'm not sure how that's better than Pro's case. In fact, Pro did concede the impact, but he said he garnered it better, allowing any candidate a chance at running for the presidency for a third term and beyond, whereas Con's case seemed only to offer a potential opportunity with no certainty. I'm not sure why Con would win this contention when he's garnering less of it than Pro. He's certainly mitigating some of Pro's advantage by garnering most of it himself, but I'm not clear on how that results in a win for Con.

Aside from that, my major concern is how you determined the winner here. I'm not sure why you're placing the burden on Pro when both debaters are presenting cases that clearly require a substantial shift from status quo. Maybe, given your view of the debate, I could vote Con on the basis that he's garnering the second contention enough to tie with Pro on it, and that the first contention essentially functions as a disadvantage to case now, so that might be reason to vote Con. But that's not the analysis I'm getting from you here. Instead, I'm seeing the onus placed on Pro, but both sides winning the arguments on the flow relatively equally. If all Con's counterplan is managing to do is garner the same impacts as Pro's plan, then that's reason to vote Pro, because it was his case first. Con cannot simply match Pro impact for impact with a very similar case and hope to win the debate. You shouldn't be treating Con's counterplan as a second contention " it's off-case as well, to be sure, but it's only an alternative, not a means of evaluating the plan itself. Treat it like a plan text, and evaluate how well it holds up next to plan. If they are garnering different advantages, then a comparison is appropriate. If they are garnering the exact same advantages and disadvantages, then you have to prefer the plan that came first.

Overall, it's still a decent RFD. It's clear that you read through the debate and are evaluating it critically. However, you really needed to spend time thinking through what made sense and what didn't among the arguments each side was making. Neither debater was very straightforward about how their arguments functioned, but it would have made a lot of sense to think through that for yourself and determine what mattered most. Sometimes (read: often) the debaters leave it up to the judge to go through much of the weighing, and that was certainly the case here. Apart from the misconception regarding term limits, that's mainly what was missing from your RFD. I never got the feeling that you were taking a step back from the debate and analyzing it as a whole, away from the individual arguments. Debaters can get caught up in individual arguments and lose sight of the debate as a whole, but it's our job as judges not to lose sight of the larger issue, and to see how each of the contentions/plans plays into that. Understanding where the burdens played out as a result of the counterplan could have helped as well, and that also requires taking a step back.

Anyway, that's what I've got. Let me know if I can be of any more help on this.
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/17/2015 5:23:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 12:47:52 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 6/16/2015 5:34:56 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/15/2015 11:38:08 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

Hmmm... well, if you'd like, we can go through one or two of your votes and I'll give you some feedback. I can't really just look at a random vote and give you feedback on it, nor do I feel it's proper for me to give you feedback on my debate with FourTrouble. So that limits us to debates where I've voted as well, or debates where I could read through it and figure out what's present/absent from your vote.

We might have enough on the former. I'm noticing that we both voted on these debates:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

If you think either or both of these are representative of your voting, we can cover them. I could be missing others, so if you happen to notice a better one, you can let me know.

Those two votes of mine were fairly bad, especially since I voted on the former only based on S&G to rid a judge nomination glitch and didn't have time. But I would appreciate it if you gave me feedback on the latter.

So, obviously, we disagreed in our decisions here. That doesn't mean that there isn't a good deal of overlap between our assessments of the debate (there is), but it does mean that we weighed and analyzed various arguments a little differently.

The first problem I see is that you seem to be going with Con's portrayal of what term limits are. Pro did actually contest this, and I don't think it makes sense to go with it the way you did here. There's a difference between term limits and term length limits, i.e. one limits the number of terms a person can be president, and the other limits the length of those terms. The latter remains in effect in Pro's case, the former changes. Hence, the objective criteria for when elections are held remains intact, and so I don't think that Con's refutation has nearly the force you're discussing here. I do agree that Con won this point, but only on a severely mitigated argument about presidents effectively becoming tyrants, since there's no reason to believe that the voting and impeachment systems wouldn't solve for that.

The second problem is how you assessed the counterplan. As I poitned out in my RFD, I was confused about how it actually functioned, and much of the details of how it would work just seemed to be missing. You're right that it allows for someone who is ideal to get an extra term or two, but I'm not sure how that's better than Pro's case. In fact, Pro did concede the impact, but he said he garnered it better, allowing any candidate a chance at running for the presidency for a third term and beyond, whereas Con's case seemed only to offer a potential opportunity with no certainty. I'm not sure why Con would win this contention when he's garnering less of it than Pro. He's certainly mitigating some of Pro's advantage by garnering most of it himself, but I'm not clear on how that results in a win for Con.

Aside from that, my major concern is how you determined the winner here. I'm not sure why you're placing the burden on Pro when both debaters are presenting cases that clearly require a substantial shift from status quo. Maybe, given your view of the debate, I could vote Con on the basis that he's garnering the second contention enough to tie with Pro on it, and that the first contention essentially functions as a disadvantage to case now, so that might be reason to vote Con. But that's not the analysis I'm getting from you here. Instead, I'm seeing the onus placed on Pro, but both sides winning the arguments on the flow relatively equally. If all Con's counterplan is managing to do is garner the same impacts as Pro's plan, then that's reason to vote Pro, because it was his case first. Con cannot simply match Pro impact for impact with a very similar case and hope to win the debate. You shouldn't be treating Con's counterplan as a second contention " it's off-case as well, to be sure, but it's only an alternative, not a means of evaluating the plan itself. Treat it like a plan text, and evaluate how well it holds up next to plan. If they are garnering different advantages, then a comparison is appropriate. If they are garnering the exact same advantages and disadvantages, then you have to prefer the plan that came first.

Overall, it's still a decent RFD. It's clear that you read through the debate and are evaluating it critically. However, you really needed to spend time thinking through what made sense and what didn't among the arguments each side was making. Neither debater was very straightforward about how their arguments functioned, but it would have made a lot of sense to think through that for yourself and determine what mattered most. Sometimes (read: often) the debaters leave it up to the judge to go through much of the weighing, and that was certainly the case here. Apart from the misconception regarding term limits, that's mainly what was missing from your RFD. I never got the feeling that you were taking a step back from the debate and analyzing it as a whole, away from the individual arguments. Debaters can get caught up in individual arguments and lose sight of the debate as a whole, but it's our job as judges not to lose sight of the larger issue, and to see how each of the contentions/plans plays into that. Understanding where the burdens played out as a result of the counterplan could have helped as well, and that also requires taking a step back.

Anyway, that's what I've got. Let me know if I can be of any more help on this.

Thank you.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
johnlubba
Posts: 2,892
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6/17/2015 12:00:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/16/2015 5:36:38 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/15/2015 10:53:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
This thread is to ask the public opinion: do you think my DDO vote RFDs are fine? What are they lacking? How can they improve?

I thank everyone who answers.

I think ur votes are the bomb.. heh :) (pun intended)

lol