Total Posts:19|Showing Posts:1-19
Jump to topic:

WODC Round 1 Rest Day

larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Hey y'all! In less than a day, we're going to see round 2 of the WODC kick off.

Thanks to everyone who helped judge the round 1 debates! I'm sure all the debaters appreciated the honest feedback and analysis I see many of you provided.

To recap the action from round 1:
UtherPenguin beat That1User 6 points to 0 on DDO (predicted by NOBODY!)
Wylted beat Lannan13 21 points to 0 on DDO (predicted by 64% of you)
Zaradi beat Stag 3 points to 0 on Edeb8 (predicted by 61% of you)
ShabShoral beat RxR. 8 points to 4 on Edeb8 (predicted by 73% of you)
TheJuniorVarsityNovice beat The Redneck 13 points to 1 on Edeb8 (predicted by 67% of you)

With a bit of backtabbing on the draw, round 2 will have heaps of exciting matchups to come. You can see the full draw on the official site, at http://www.edeb8.com... , and place your odds for who will win each matchup in the round yet to come. Assuming my backtabbing isn't wrong here haha. Top debate next round looks set to be Wylted v Zaradi, which is set to be a classic.

Some close matchups! In about 23 hours the official draw and new topics will be released. As always, good luck.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:42:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.

Thats.....interesting.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:47:42 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:42:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.

Thats.....interesting.

https://plus.google.com...
Tsar of DDO
larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:53:28 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:47:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:42:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.

Thats.....interesting.

https://plus.google.com...

What's this hangout?
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:55:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:53:28 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:47:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:42:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.

Thats.....interesting.

https://plus.google.com...

What's this hangout?

The official DDO one. You're welcome to join, if you like.
Tsar of DDO
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 8:57:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 8:47:42 PM, YYW wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:42:28 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:41:15 PM, larztheloser wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:37:20 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 8:09:27 PM, larztheloser wrote:

Hey I was looking at the standings. How are points awarded by wins.

Points are how many points you got in the judgments, normalized for the debate site. The top scorer on each site gets 100 points, and as you got 23% of what the top scorer got (rounded to the nearest whole number) you get 23 points.

Thats.....interesting.

https://plus.google.com...

No thanks. I shouldn't even really be posting, either. But don't tell bsh ROFL
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
nzlockie
Posts: 25
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 10:41:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Probably a little late, but that scoring seems overly complicated and unnecessary, especially since you're using power pairings.

Wouldn't it be easier and fairer to simply award points based on a win or a loss?

Zero for a loss, 3 for a win - or something of that nature?
Maybe something for tied debates if that's a thing that can happen on DDO?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 10:43:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 10:41:21 PM, nzlockie wrote:
Probably a little late, but that scoring seems overly complicated and unnecessary, especially since you're using power pairings.

Wouldn't it be easier and fairer to simply award points based on a win or a loss?

Zero for a loss, 3 for a win - or something of that nature?
Maybe something for tied debates if that's a thing that can happen on DDO?

This. This makes so much more sense.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,282
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 10:44:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 10:43:40 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 6/18/2015 10:41:21 PM, nzlockie wrote:
Probably a little late, but that scoring seems overly complicated and unnecessary, especially since you're using power pairings.

Wouldn't it be easier and fairer to simply award points based on a win or a loss?

Zero for a loss, 3 for a win - or something of that nature?
Maybe something for tied debates if that's a thing that can happen on DDO?

This. This makes so much more sense.

https://plus.google.com...
Tsar of DDO
larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 10:45:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 10:41:21 PM, nzlockie wrote:
Probably a little late, but that scoring seems overly complicated and unnecessary, especially since you're using power pairings.

Wouldn't it be easier and fairer to simply award points based on a win or a loss?

Zero for a loss, 3 for a win - or something of that nature?
Maybe something for tied debates if that's a thing that can happen on DDO?

That's pretty much how it IS ranked. It's ranked first in this way, which I call wins, and if there is a TIE in that scoring system, then the higher ranked one will be the one who has more points.
nzlockie
Posts: 25
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 11:02:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Yeah the problem is that one guy is going to get 100 points for the round, (top winner) and another guy is going to get 23 points (less people voted for him)

Based on that, the 100 point guy could easily afford to skip a round and still be competitive. Conversely, the 23 point guy could win every round and still end up losing the comp.

If you wanted to take into account winning margin, you could use a bonus point system, (extra point for winning by 75% or more of the vote, loser gets a point for coming within 25% of the vote - something like that)
My preference would be for this to only be used as a secondary tie breaker ranking, but it could work either way.

Also, since you're power pairing, the likelyhood of this comp finishing in a tie is pretty unlikely - maybe everyone would be satisifed with a tiebreaker round if the final result ends up with the top positions tied?

It just seems a bit lame that Zaradi gets significantly less points in part because Whiteflame recused himself from voting on that debate because of what could be described as voter intimidation.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 11:12:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@nzlockie, Zaradi getting significantly less points, has more to do with that debate finishing later than the rest, than any other factor.
larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 11:12:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 6/18/2015 11:02:36 PM, nzlockie wrote:
Based on that, the 100 point guy could easily afford to skip a round and still be competitive. Conversely, the 23 point guy could win every round and still end up losing the comp.

Just to clarify - how? He'd be thrown down a full bracket. Points don't matter at all if you have fewer wins.

I feel like it's the word "points" that's throwing people, like the ranking is based on them somehow, when the reality is WAY more complicated.
larztheloser
Posts: 857
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 11:21:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Maybe I need to explain this again.

First, competitors are ranked by HOW OFTEN THEY WON. The points are irrelevant. Wins are all that counts. If you win more, you're on top. Draws are half a win.

If two competitors are EQUAL in how often they won, then their exact position on the draw is still important to determine 1) bubbling for the brackets, 2) who gets a bye, and 3) who faces who. As such, a number of secondary measures are used:

1) First, by normalized points
2) Second, by who beat whom
3) If all else fails, by previous round ranking

NONE of these are relevant in most ordinary circumstances. It's almost entirely just for the brackets. Hence why the table is not ordered on points
nzlockie
Posts: 25
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/18/2015 11:26:50 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
@larztheloser on a side note then, how crap is posting on this site?

No tags, no colours, a stupid reply method that ends up copying a whole mess of text that you end up deleting so as to make your post slightly readable...