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plants
Posts: 52
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7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I joined to debate and discuss intellectual issues, but I'm noticing that a lot of people are just here for social reasons. I personally feel like that is a bad thing for the well being of the site because it lowers the quality of discussion. People are definitely going to be turned off of joining when they view posts from users like "RevNge" or "ResponsiblyIrresponsible." I want to join a website to engage in high quality debates and all I see is "troll" debates and users that treat this website like a sh1tty facebook.

Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.

I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious about how this website works and perhaps it will be nice for you all to hear the perspective of a newcomer who has done a very large amount of observing.

I want to have a discussion so let me ask some questions.
-Do you think that there is a portion of this site that still engages in high quality discussion?
-Is this really a "debate" site?
-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?
-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?
-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/12/2015 3:16:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.

First, welcome to the website.

Second, surely you knew that making a thread like this in order to call out two members was *itself* extremely off-putting, so spare me the moral aggrandizement. That you would explicitly mention Zarro and me, when clearly "sniping" is far more prominent than you're letting on -- and when both of us, though particularly her, have been involved in good and worthy debates -- says a lot about you.

Third, it isn't for the "sole reason" of gaining ELO. I can't speak for anyone else. My intention is to hit 100 wins; after that ends, so too will my sniping career. To that effect, you can clearly see a worthy debate linked in my signature which will begin rather soon. That, much like my threads, will define my time on this website -- not the "sniping."
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/12/2015 3:21:41 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Not to mention, I can't control whether someone forfeits. In many cases, I had every intention to finish the debate, but my opponent's sudden decision to take a hiatus -- perhaps a permanent one -- prevented that from happening.

Here are several examples of otherwise serious debates that, by no fault of my own, ended in forfeits:

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

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plants
Posts: 52
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7/12/2015 3:22:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:16:12 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.

First, welcome to the website.

Second, surely you knew that making a thread like this in order to call out two members was *itself* extremely off-putting, so spare me the moral aggrandizement. That you would explicitly mention Zarro and me, when clearly "sniping" is far more prominent than you're letting on -- and when both of us, though particularly her, have been involved in good and worthy debates -- says a lot about you.


I explicitly used both of you as examples for two reasons.
Firstly, because you are both prominent members. Seeing that prominent members "noob-snipe" shows that the intellectual quality of this site is quite low.
Secondly, because you are both decent debaters. Why would you noob snipe when you can have a high quality debate? What is the point? What do you gain?

Indeed, I am not calling you out; I am using you as an example. I never insulted you or your debate prowess.

Third, it isn't for the "sole reason" of gaining ELO. I can't speak for anyone else. My intention is to hit 100 wins; after that ends, so too will my sniping career. To that effect, you can clearly see a worthy debate linked in my signature which will begin rather soon. That, much like my threads, will define my time on this website -- not the "sniping."

What makes the desire to hit 100 wins for no reason any less petty than gaining elo? What is the appeal? I do not understand.

Would you be interested in perhaps debating me on this issue?

You seem to derail many threads with frivolous content. Why not stick to just quality discussion?
plants
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7/12/2015 3:23:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:21:41 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
Just because you have some solid debates, doesn't mean you don't engage in "noob sniping." In fact, the fact that you have some solid debates makes your love for noob sniping make close to no sense.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/12/2015 3:29:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:22:39 PM, plants wrote:
I explicitly used both of you as examples for two reasons.
Firstly, because you are both prominent members. Seeing that prominent members "noob-snipe" shows that the intellectual quality of this site is quite low.

No, it doesn't at all because you're extrapolating from an isolated example that isn't indicative of my time on this site or of Zarro's, though you're insinuating not only that it, but that it in some way captures the essence of the website.

Irrespective of whether the intellectual quality of the site is low or not, that's a horrible rationale.

Secondly, because you are both decent debaters. Why would you noob snipe when you can have a high quality debate? What is the point? What do you gain?

I explained this above; in my case, it's whatever glory comes with breaking the record for longest stream of undefeated debates, though (a) I've had my fair share of serious debates and (b) I haven't any plans to continue long into the future. I don't have enough time at the moment for drawn-out debates, though that will change.

Indeed, I am not calling you out; I am using you as an example. I never insulted you or your debate prowess.

You did call me out. You didn't insult my debating prowess, but you did insult me by making a patently disingenuous claim that sniping defines either my time here or Cassie's. Mentioning explicitly someone's name and calling their behavior "off-putting" is, ironically, extremely off-putting.

What makes the desire to hit 100 wins for no reason any less petty than gaining elo? What is the appeal? I do not understand.

I just explained this, but truthfully, you don't need to understand it or to endorse it. I haven't done anything wrong or that puts anyone else's position or time on this website in jeopardy -- I can't say the same for others. It doesn't merit a call-out thread.

Would you be interested in perhaps debating me on this issue?

On noob-sniping? Seems like a really lame debate.

You seem to derail many threads with frivolous content. Why not stick to just quality discussion?

You cannot be serious. Do you honestly expect me to believe that, after this, that you're a new member?

No, I don't, and whatever fixation you have on attacking me, while flattering, isn't going to work. If you actually knew anything about me, you would know of the kind of content I bring to this website. In fact, Airmax and I had a discussion yesterday where, while I admitted that "frivolous content" is undesirable, that (a) I probably *should* cut down on it, and (b) that I make a point to keep it out of otherwise-useful threads. It doesn't exactly help when the good threads I do make -- and, mind you, I make plenty of them, including one just this morning -- go ignored.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/12/2015 3:32:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:23:55 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:21:41 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
Just because you have some solid debates, doesn't mean you don't engage in "noob sniping."

I never said that it did -- and it's best that you not extrapolate meaning from something, because that unto itself forms the foundation of a strawman. I never denied that I noob-sniped; I said that it isn't a defining characteristic, and thus a call-out thread insinuating that it *is*, is extremely off-putting.

In fact, the fact that you have some solid debates makes your love for noob sniping make close to no sense.

Again, you don't have to like it, or to endorse it, or to participate in it. Live and let live, right?

Unless you can prove that I in some way have eroded the intellectual integrity of the website -- and I think almost everyone would deny that that's the case -- then your attempt to drag my and Zarro's name through the mud was extremely inappropriate.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
So, who are you?
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
plants
Posts: 52
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7/12/2015 3:41:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:29:45 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:22:39 PM, plants wrote:
I explicitly used both of you as examples for two reasons.
Firstly, because you are both prominent members. Seeing that prominent members "noob-snipe" shows that the intellectual quality of this site is quite low.

No, it doesn't at all because you're extrapolating from an isolated example that isn't indicative of my time on this site or of Zarro's, though you're insinuating not only that it, but that it in some way captures the essence of the website.

I'm sure there is a lot of intellectual content on this website. However, for every intellectual thread, there are at least two troll threads.

When I look through your massive amount of debates out of curiosity and desire to learn, I see more noob sniping debates than anything else. If you want people to learn from you and pay attention to your knowledge, why flood your profile with debates where you don't even debate?


Irrespective of whether the intellectual quality of the site is low or not, that's a horrible rationale.

Secondly, because you are both decent debaters. Why would you noob snipe when you can have a high quality debate? What is the point? What do you gain?

I explained this above; in my case, it's whatever glory comes with breaking the record for longest stream of undefeated debates, though (a) I've had my fair share of serious debates and (b) I haven't any plans to continue long into the future. I don't have enough time at the moment for drawn-out debates, though that will change.

Why is breaking this record important to you? What does it mean? How will anyone take you breaking this silly record seriously if 75% of your debates are debate in which no debating actually took place?


Indeed, I am not calling you out; I am using you as an example. I never insulted you or your debate prowess.

You did call me out. You didn't insult my debating prowess, but you did insult me by making a patently disingenuous claim that sniping defines either my time here or Cassie's. Mentioning explicitly someone's name and calling their behavior "off-putting" is, ironically, extremely off-putting.

What makes the desire to hit 100 wins for no reason any less petty than gaining elo? What is the appeal? I do not understand.

I just explained this, but truthfully, you don't need to understand it or to endorse it. I haven't done anything wrong or that puts anyone else's position or time on this website in jeopardy -- I can't say the same for others. It doesn't merit a call-out thread.


This is not a call out thread. This is a thread targeted and making discussion over an issue that I believe turns off users from joining this website.

Would you be interested in perhaps debating me on this issue?

On noob-sniping? Seems like a really lame debate.


You seem to be extremely passionate about this subject. I think if we shift this discussion away from the forums and into a debate, it could be more formal and more productive.

It would also gain more traction and quality discussion through the form of solid votes and comments on the debate itself. This thread is only the beginning.

You seem to derail many threads with frivolous content. Why not stick to just quality discussion?

You cannot be serious. Do you honestly expect me to believe that, after this, that you're a new member?

I have been observing this website for about a month and a half before I decided to join. It didn't take but a few threads to show me that many users derail what could otherwise be quite serious and productive content.


No, I don't, and whatever fixation you have on attacking me, while flattering, isn't going to work. If you actually knew anything about me, you would know of the kind of content I bring to this website. In fact, Airmax and I had a discussion yesterday where, while I admitted that "frivolous content" is undesirable, that (a) I probably *should* cut down on it, and (b) that I make a point to keep it out of otherwise-useful threads. It doesn't exactly help when the good threads I do make -- and, mind you, I make plenty of them, including one just this morning -- go ignored.

I didn't mean to personally bait you into an argument. I made this thread to talk about the site in general. You were merely an example that I regrettably used. Your good threads should not go ignored. Any thread that includes quality content should be addressed but when 50% of the threads on this website are actual jokes, people may give up on forum discussion.
plants
Posts: 52
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7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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7/12/2015 3:49:08 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
All three of those people have contributed to the site in one way or another, so please, just step off.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/12/2015 3:50:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?

Thett has been here for four years. A bit longer than you, I'd say.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
thett3
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7/12/2015 3:51:13 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?

Thett the mighty aka the magnificent
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
plants
Posts: 52
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7/12/2015 3:51:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:50:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?

Thett has been here for four years. A bit longer than you, I'd say.

My question wasn't meant as an insult, lol

I'm sure "thett3" knows quite a bit more about the social stratification of debate.org than I do.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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7/12/2015 3:52:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:41:48 PM, plants wrote:
I'm sure there is a lot of intellectual content on this website. However, for every intellectual thread, there are at least two troll threads.

I think that's an overly pessimistic statistic, but even if it did in fact hold, point the finger at the people making those threads. They're not coming from me. If you want to know what I'm all about, you can view the economics forum. I'm fairly certain that at least half of the threads on the first page are mine. Most of them, unsurprisingly, have zero replies.

When I look through your massive amount of debates out of curiosity and desire to learn, I see more noob sniping debates than anything else. If you want people to learn from you and pay attention to your knowledge, why flood your profile with debates where you don't even debate?

I answered this already. I never said that I want people to learn from me necessarily; some may, and I'm flattered by it, but I'm not under any responsibility to uphold that standard. I think my threads more than accomplish that, though.

Why is breaking this record important to you? What does it mean? How will anyone take you breaking this silly record seriously if 75% of your debates are debate in which no debating actually took place?

First of all, the 75% number -- if you were to look at all of the debates I've done on this website even on my past accounts -- is bullsh1t, and cannot be taken as anything other than a vicious attack.

Second, breaking the record is entirely independent of partaking in serious debates and discussions. I do that already, and more will come. I'm not looking for the "notoriety" of going 100-0, nor am I going to amend my behavior -- which doesn't actually hurt anyone, and which you still haven't proven erodes the intellectual integrity of the site -- to suit the views of people whose opinions I don't value.

Now, if people whose opinions I valued voice their concerns on this, perhaps that would be a different story. Thus far, to my knowledge, none of them have.

This is not a call out thread. This is a thread targeted and making discussion over an issue that I believe turns off users from joining this website.

It is a call-out thread, irrespective of your stated secondary intention, which I find to be complete nonsense anyway.

Not to mention, if you desired a discussion on noob-sniping, there are several other avenues you could have taken. None of them involve mentioning people by name. If you abhor pointless threads, why not *avoid* pointless threads, whereby someone whom you wrongly call out will, naturally, respond adversely? That's a really horrible way to integrate yourself into the community.


You seem to be extremely passionate about this subject. I think if we shift this discussion away from the forums and into a debate, it could be more formal and more productive.

I'm not passionate about the subject; I'm indifferent to it. If you hadn't made this personal by bringing up my name, I wouldn't have responded.

It would also gain more traction and quality discussion through the form of solid votes and comments on the debate itself. This thread is only the beginning.

This has already been done and answered. There's a community consensus on it. There isn't much more "discussion" to be had on it.

I have been observing this website for about a month and a half before I decided to join. It didn't take but a few threads to show me that many users derail what could otherwise be quite serious and productive content.

This is totally wrong -- I do not and have not ever derailed an otherwise productive discussion. Misc spam is not productive.

I didn't mean to personally bait you into an argument.

Then don't bring my name up. This should be fairly obvious.

I made this thread to talk about the site in general. You were merely an example that I regrettably used. Your good threads should not go ignored. Any thread that includes quality content should be addressed but when 50% of the threads on this website are actual jokes, people may give up on forum discussion.

I don't disagree that there *are* joke threads, though again, insofar as you actually desire to point the finger -- and, again, I think that's a horrible way to go about it -- you really cannot in good faith point it at me. I've made some silly threads in the Misc forum, though much less so recently, but the majority of my content is serious. I'm not the guy you want to drag into this (and nor, for that matter, is Zarro).
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
plants
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7/12/2015 3:56:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:51:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?

Thett the mighty aka the magnificent

what do all those comments in your signature of your post mean?
thett3
Posts: 14,348
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7/12/2015 3:58:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:56:19 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:51:13 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:48:33 PM, plants wrote:
At 7/12/2015 3:36:45 PM, thett3 wrote:
So, who are you?

I'm just a new user quite curious about the nature of this website. Who are you?

Thett the mighty aka the magnificent

what do all those comments in your signature of your post mean?

Proof of your point
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
YamaVonKarma
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7/12/2015 4:04:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
I joined to debate and discuss intellectual issues, but I'm noticing that a lot of people are just here for social reasons. I personally feel like that is a bad thing for the well being of the site because it lowers the quality of discussion. People are definitely going to be turned off of joining when they view posts from users like "RevNge" or "ResponsiblyIrresponsible." I want to join a website to engage in high quality debates and all I see is "troll" debates and users that treat this website like a sh1tty facebook.
Are you aware that you can get everything you want out of this website without having to interact with them? The forums are completely optional and I doubt they'll accept any of your debates if you request they not. Therefore, your current dissatisfaction is purely of your own creation.

If you do wish to make use of the site's features fully, you need to accept that there will be people who you do not enjoy interacting with and have the maturity to deal with them.
Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.
If you aspire to reach the top of the leader boards, you will find yourself doing the same thing at one point or another. However, it is not the fault of one party if the other decides to forfeit.
I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious about how this website works and perhaps it will be nice for you all to hear the perspective of a newcomer who has done a very large amount of observing.
To gauge how much you've observed, I have some questions that I expect to be awnsered withing ten minutes of this response. If you fail to do so, I will accept this as being a falsely made statement.

- Who is the site's head moderator?
- Who is the site's president?
- What is the most played game on the site?
- Who is the current top of elo?

I want to have a discussion so let me ask some questions.
-Do you think that there is a portion of this site that still engages in high quality discussion?
Yes.
-Is this really a "debate" site?
At it's core, yes. You are simply thinking about the term "debate" in the wrong way.
-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?
Yes.
-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?
Set criteria for your debate when creating it.
-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?
Learn this for yourself.
People who I've called as mafia DP1:
TUF, and YYW
Emilrose
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7/12/2015 4:20:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
I joined to debate and discuss intellectual issues, but I'm noticing that a lot of people are just here for social reasons. I personally feel like that is a bad thing for the well being of the site because it lowers the quality of discussion. People are definitely going to be turned off of joining when they view posts from users like "RevNge" or "ResponsiblyIrresponsible." I want to join a website to engage in high quality debates and all I see is "troll" debates and users that treat this website like a sh1tty Facebook.

What are you talking about? RveNge is actually a genius.

And are you saying that debates like "Muhammad drawing contest" are not intellectual?

How astonishing.


Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.

I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious about how this website works and perhaps it will be nice for you all to hear the perspective of a newcomer who has done a very large amount of observing.

I want to have a discussion so let me ask some questions.
-Do you think that there is a portion of this site that still engages in high quality discussion?
-Is this really a "debate" site?
-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?
-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?
-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?

dis iz just stupied.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
Zaradi
Posts: 14,125
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7/12/2015 4:24:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 4:16:27 PM, YamaVonKarma wrote:
I now believe you to be a liar.

Wouldn't taking longer mean he's more likely to be telling the trough rather than lying because, if he were truly new, he would have to look up that information to answer your questions and thus take longer?
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
UtherPenguin
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7/12/2015 4:45:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?
-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?
-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?

All of that could be achieved if you avoid that annoying twit "UtherPenguin"
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
Black-Jesus
Posts: 60
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7/12/2015 5:15:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm thinking that this the sort of stuff is what @plants was talking about. A lot of the "debates" on this website are less debates and more senseless fighting, name calling, and bickering, especially in the "Polls" and "Forums" sections but also the actual "Debates" section. I'm not saying that there are no serious debaters not looking to insult anybody but discuss intellectual talking points, and I'm not saying that even the ones that are most culpable for trolling and fighting are not capable of serious discussion; I'm just saying that you can't post a post, even something as simple as an off-color joke about rape, or a question about whether or not there is enough intellectual discourse, without having people chip in and try to get defensive for no reason or just blatantly insult other people. I think a lot of the arguments I've had in comments sections and such that resorted to name calling was me just being defensive, and I was innocent of throwing insults first, but there are times, indeed, when I threw insults first, or when I saw that, in retrospect, perhaps there is no defensive justification for what I said, and I am big enough to take blame for the stupid things I've said. But I've posted comments on polls, thinking it was a perfectly neutral, bipartisan, considerate and rational thing to say, checked in the next day to find that the comment section had exploded.

I think the problem is that it's an open site; some people think that "debate" and "argue" are synonymous and they're not. You also will find that people often get emotionally invested in their ideas, especially things like religion and the "BIG Issues", and get naturally defensive when someone challenges that. People can also get away with more on the internet so they do more things that they wouldn't do in reality. It's just the internet; trolls, a**holes and the like are all too common, and DDO is no a safe haven from that.
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airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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7/12/2015 5:30:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 5:15:35 PM, Black-Jesus wrote:
I'm just saying that you can't post a post, even something as simple as an off-color joke about rape, or a question about whether or not there is enough intellectual discourse, without having people chip in and try to get defensive for no reason or just blatantly insult other people.

Certainly insults are a problem in any context, and yes, we should be able to have a conversation about anything in a reasonable and productive manner, but I have a hard time concurring that people getting defensive about off-color jokes about rape is itself indicative of a problem.
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Black-Jesus
Posts: 60
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7/12/2015 5:40:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 5:30:38 PM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 7/12/2015 5:15:35 PM, Black-Jesus wrote:
I'm just saying that you can't post a post, even something as simple as an off-color joke about rape, or a question about whether or not there is enough intellectual discourse, without having people chip in and try to get defensive for no reason or just blatantly insult other people.

Certainly insults are a problem in any context, and yes, we should be able to have a conversation about anything in a reasonable and productive manner, but I have a hard time concurring that people getting defensive about off-color jokes about rape is itself indicative of a problem.

Well, I'm just saying that the reaction I saw on this particular joke was disproportional
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airmax1227
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7/12/2015 5:45:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
I joined to debate and discuss intellectual issues, but I'm noticing that a lot of people are just here for social reasons...

That is certainly an aspect of the site, and you certainly can avoid it if you'd like to just focus on having more substantive discussions. I do believe that most of the social aspects are contained to the DDO, misc and personal sections of the forum. While sometimes it crosses over to the other sections, I do believe it's more rare these days that people intentionally or blatantly distract from a specific topic (by spamming nonsense or off topic discussions). If you see it, feel free to report it, as spamming is against the rules of the site.

I do believe citing specific examples of people in this thread wasn't in good judgement as I think all of us know what the issues are without needing to call specific people out who may or may not actually be guilty of whatever you are accusing them of.

I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious about how this website works and perhaps it will be nice for you all to hear the perspective of a newcomer who has done a very large amount of observing.

I want to have a discussion so let me ask some questions.
-Do you think that there is a portion of this site that still engages in high quality discussion?

I think most of the topics in the particular sections of the site designated for them (Politics, society etc) do have high quality discussions and I'd encourage you to contribute to them.

-Is this really a "debate" site?

Debates happen on this site, so to the extent that this is how one would define a "debate site", then yes.

-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?

Yes. Go to any of the sub forums and you can find substantive topics that are mostly lacking in off topic nonsense. Certainly it happens, but it certainly isn't to the extent that you are implying with this thread. If you do see someone posting off topic nonsense, feel free to report it as it would just be spam.

-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?

Make the debate impossible to accept and wait until someone says they'd like to take you up on the topic in the debate comments.

-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?

You'd have to ask them I suppose. But part of it is that it's fun to be competitive and have something to show for it. Certainly the post count stuff is nonsense, but I think some people take pride in their Elo and I don't see anything wrong with that. For every one of those people though, there are certainly people on this website that are focused entirely on just having interesting discussions and debating topics they are interested in.
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Hayd
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7/12/2015 5:45:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/12/2015 3:03:43 PM, plants wrote:
I joined to debate and discuss intellectual issues, but I'm noticing that a lot of people are just here for social reasons. I personally feel like that is a bad thing for the well being of the site because it lowers the quality of discussion. People are definitely going to be turned off of joining when they view posts from users like "RevNge" or "ResponsiblyIrresponsible." I want to join a website to engage in high quality debates and all I see is "troll" debates and users that treat this website like a sh1tty facebook.
I dont know Rev very well but JMK is a complete stud, you should get to know him better cuz he is so fresh.

Another thing I notice is an obsession with engaging in debates where one user forfeits solely for the purpose of gaining elo. Why do people do this? I see users like "Zarroette" and "ResponsiblyIrresponsible" in particular who engage in this type of behavior and I find it quite off-putting.

I don't mean to be rude, I'm just curious about how this website works and perhaps it will be nice for you all to hear the perspective of a newcomer who has done a very large amount of observing.

I want to have a discussion so let me ask some questions.
-Do you think that there is a portion of this site that still engages in high quality discussion?
-Is this really a "debate" site?
Yes, this is the main attraction besides the forums and opinions/polls.
-Is it possible to post a thread about an interesting topic and get *serious* responses rather than responses from frivolous users simply posting to increase their number of posts for no particular reason?
Yes definitely, just not the DDO forum. Try the philosophy forum, you can find hundreds of good topics and people to discuss it with there. Also be sure to try the society forum, the politics forum, and the religion forum.
-How can I ensure my debate is accepted by someone who actually desires to debate in a serious manner?
When you start a new debate, you can limit who accepts the debate by limiting the age and the ELO. Change the ELO and age to such high numbers that it would be impossible to accept. Then tell people who want to accept it to apply in the comments and choose your opponent. You can then change the criteria and debate them.
-Why the hell do people care more about "elo" and "post count" than they do about having intelligent discussion and actually learning?
Your right, people on this site care more about pride and ego than they do about they do about learning. But this is the same for life in general, this is not exclusive to DDO.

You've just been looking in the wrong places and havent found the right answers.