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**August Beginner's Tournament R1**

1harderthanyouthink
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7/30/2015 8:06:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Beginners - Mentors

Cotton_Candy - Wylted
salam.morcos - YYW
TheProphett - bsh1
FullMetal.Alchemist - FourTroube
Greg4586 - YYW
Khaos_Mage - bsh1
UtherPenguin - FourTrouble
TheOpinionist - Wylted

Matchups: (made so two beginners with the same mentor cannot go against one another until the end - number ranking for formality/based on nothing)

*Bolded triple-lines denote separation of the side of the bracket.*

1. TheOpinionist - Wylted

8. Greg4586 - YYW

---

4. Khaos_Mage - bsh1

5. UtherPenguin - FT

---

3. Salam.Morcos - YYW

6. FullMetal.Alchemist - FT

---

2. TheProphett - bsh1

7. Cotton_Candy - Wylted

--------

You all have until 10 PM central time on July 30th (today) to come up with topics and sides, or else I'll do it for you.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/30/2015 8:10:53 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I should also note that you cannot start your debates until I say you can.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/30/2015 8:14:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 8:10:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I should also note that you cannot start your debates until I say you can.

Okay Hitler :b
Cotton_Candy
Posts: 299
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7/30/2015 8:45:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 8:14:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/30/2015 8:10:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I should also note that you cannot start your debates until I say you can.

Okay Hitler :b

L0L
YYW
Posts: 36,233
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7/30/2015 11:48:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
ATTN NOOBS:

If you are my noob, PM me with your "good faith" effort at your first round. We'll talk about it. If I don't respond, PM me no more than twice a day until I do. My schedule is busy, so don't feel like I'm ignoring you because I'm not. I just work a lot.
Wylted
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7/30/2015 12:35:52 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 8:45:49 AM, Cotton_Candy wrote:
At 7/30/2015 8:14:40 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/30/2015 8:10:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I should also note that you cannot start your debates until I say you can.

Okay Hitler :b

L0L

PM me when you are ready to talk.
TheProphett
Posts: 520
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7/30/2015 1:34:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Good luck to all debaters! I think I may have a slight disadvantage due to the fact that I have only been here a couple of weeks and have zero debate experience whatsoever. But nevertheless, I will try my hardest!
Topics I would like to debate: https://docs.google.com...

Epic Quotes:

She's a cunning linguist, but I'm a master debater - Austin Powers


Economic Forum Revival Co-Leader

If you are interested in starting a political journal for the site, please contact me.
1harderthanyouthink
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7/30/2015 8:37:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/30/2015 1:34:11 PM, TheProphett wrote:
Good luck to all debaters! I think I may have a slight disadvantage due to the fact that I have only been here a couple of weeks and have zero debate experience whatsoever. But nevertheless, I will try my hardest!

I'm sure you'll have no problem learning.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/30/2015 9:05:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Debates:

You will have 48 hours each round to make arguments. ALL DEBATES WILL BE FOUR ROUNDS - WITH THREE ROUNDS OF DEBATING AND ONE WAIVE - EITHER BY THE SECOND DEBATER IN THE FIRST ROUND OR THE SECOND DEBATER IN THE LAST ROUND.

I will give you the go ahead on starting debates. (Note that it must happen by the 31st in GMT-5:00 [CDT].)

The contender will have a limited amount of time (ranging between 16-24 hours depending on when the debate is created) to accept, or else they will forfeit.

Voting

Voting will have an Elo minimum of 2500, and the voting period will last 3 days. I will make sure debates get votes. I will only vote in the event that the debate is tied with 12 or less hours remaining, and I cannot find anyone to vote.

I ask that all mentors try to vote on as many debates as possible where their beginners are not in the debates (i.e. bsh can vote on a debate where FT and Wylted have noobs debating).
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/30/2015 11:50:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Cool beans! Good luck, everyone!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/30/2015 11:54:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm not doing the multiple days between rounds, and 7+ day voting period because I don't want this to go too far into September - if at all.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
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7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

Additionally, you gave us almost NO time to pick topics. I barely got a chance to check in with my noob before he tells me that you've already assigned him topics. I haven't even been able to contact my other noob yet. Seriously, you MUST slow down the pace of this. I know you don't want this tournament to drag on forever, but you're going at break-neck pace, and that's not good either.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Put it this way: you have a lot of time to prepare when considering the time the other person gets.

Additionally, you gave us almost NO time to pick topics. I barely got a chance to check in with my noob before he tells me that you've already assigned him topics.

He still has time. I'm messaging him right now. I told him that if he doesn't get a topic in time, he's getting the one I sent. He also gets one veto per round.

I haven't even been able to contact my other noob yet. Seriously, you MUST slow down the pace of this. I know you don't want this tournament to drag on forever, but you're going at break-neck pace, and that's not good either.

I'm going at break-neck pace for a reason. One day is plenty of time to come up with topics.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 2:37:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

Additionally, you gave us almost NO time to pick topics. I barely got a chance to check in with my noob before he tells me that you've already assigned him topics. I haven't even been able to contact my other noob yet. Seriously, you MUST slow down the pace of this. I know you don't want this tournament to drag on forever, but you're going at break-neck pace, and that's not good either.

By the way, Khaos told me to give a topic, which was agreed to by Uther.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

Put it this way: you have a lot of time to prepare when considering the time the other person gets.

Incorrect. I cannot work with the noob until I see what their opponent actually says. I cannot coach them if I don't know what they're up against. So, I can't actually do much prep until the opponent places their round.

Additionally, you gave us almost NO time to pick topics. I barely got a chance to check in with my noob before he tells me that you've already assigned him topics.

He still has time. I'm messaging him right now. I told him that if he doesn't get a topic in time, he's getting the one I sent. He also gets one veto per round.

You gave him 45 minutes. Even with one veto, that's ridiculous and unfair. They should have far more time. I mean, even I didn't have enough time to contact and talk with my noobs.

I haven't even been able to contact my other noob yet. Seriously, you MUST slow down the pace of this. I know you don't want this tournament to drag on forever, but you're going at break-neck pace, and that's not good either.

I'm going at break-neck pace for a reason. One day is plenty of time to come up with topics.

No it isn't. You're thinking in the lens of someone who is used to the way debating on DDO works. You're not thinking about the noob-mentor dynamic. 48 hours might be reasonable, but even that is barely sufficient. Going quickly for quicknesses sake is not okay.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
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7/31/2015 2:45:44 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:37:32 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

By the way, Khaos told me to give a topic, which was agreed to by Uther.

What were they assigned?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 2:55:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:45:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:37:32 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

By the way, Khaos told me to give a topic, which was agreed to by Uther.

What were they assigned?

Resolved: A just society ought not use the death penalty as a form of punishment.

Khaos is pro.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 2:57:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:55:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:45:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:37:32 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

By the way, Khaos told me to give a topic, which was agreed to by Uther.

What were they assigned?

Resolved: A just society ought not use the death penalty as a form of punishment.

Khaos is pro.

Sweetness :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 3:16:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.

It's an extreme shift, but I think they'll learn better from being pressured.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 3:19:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:16:55 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.

It's an extreme shift, but I think they'll learn better from being pressured.

I don't. I think having time to look over things, have multiple drafts and discussions, delve into debate theory, etc. is vital, and you're not providing me the time to do that. 72 hours is important, and I think you need to relent here.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/31/2015 3:21:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:19:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:16:55 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.

It's an extreme shift, but I think they'll learn better from being pressured.

I don't. I think having time to look over things, have multiple drafts and discussions, delve into debate theory, etc. is vital, and you're not providing me the time to do that. 72 hours is important, and I think you need to relent here.

You should know that only R1 will definitely be 48 hours. The final will definitely be 72 and maybe 5 rounds, and the semi-final will be either 48/4 or 72/4, depending on the time this round takes.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 3:24:13 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:21:40 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:19:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:16:55 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.

It's an extreme shift, but I think they'll learn better from being pressured.

I don't. I think having time to look over things, have multiple drafts and discussions, delve into debate theory, etc. is vital, and you're not providing me the time to do that. 72 hours is important, and I think you need to relent here.

You should know that only R1 will definitely be 48 hours. The final will definitely be 72 and maybe 5 rounds, and the semi-final will be either 48/4 or 72/4, depending on the time this round takes.

Early on is when I need to work with the noobs most. That's totally backwards, and you're insanely micromanaging this tournament. You're providing my noob with definitions? Seriously?

Chris, I've given several reasons why I need more time for my noob, and why that request should take precedence over your desire to have a fast tournament. You haven't substantively responded to any of those points, and it feels like the only reason you're not accommodating me is that you don't want to accommodate me, not because it's the best thing for the noobs.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,098
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7/31/2015 3:29:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/31/2015 3:24:13 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:21:40 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:19:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:16:55 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:12:06 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 3:05:02 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:58:52 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:56:12 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:52:50 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:51:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:42:46 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:35:38 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/31/2015 2:19:44 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Chris, while I know you mean well, you barely give us any time to do anything. If you want me to be able to mentor my noobs adequately, I will need more than 48 hours before rounds.

72 hours is too long - it'll take way too long for the tournament to progress.

Maybe for a regular tournament, you'd be right. But not for a noob tournament. I will need to do a lot of back-and-forth with my noob, and that requires time that you're not giving. The PRIMARY purpose of a noob tournament is to educate the noobs. That goal should be placed above all other concerns, including tournament alacrity. I would rather have a long tournament that gives mentors more time to interact with their noobs than a quick and efficient tournament that doesn't provide enough time.

It's too much time. With voting, one debate can take up to 24 days, if each debater goes to the max time for each round. 48 hours isn't perfect, but I view it as better than 72.

Besides time, what reason is there to do 48 hour rounds?

Time is the reason.

Then you're sublimating consideration of the noob's to considerations of time. That's the wrong way to go about it. In a tournament about noobs, their welfare and benefit should be given primacy.

Too much time has proven to me to be negative. Therefore, I have to go with less time.

You're swinging the pendulum back too much. I usually give 4-7 days to discuss topics. You're giving people 24 hours. That's an extreme shift. At the very least, people should be entitled to 72 hours to make arguments.

It's an extreme shift, but I think they'll learn better from being pressured.

I don't. I think having time to look over things, have multiple drafts and discussions, delve into debate theory, etc. is vital, and you're not providing me the time to do that. 72 hours is important, and I think you need to relent here.

You should know that only R1 will definitely be 48 hours. The final will definitely be 72 and maybe 5 rounds, and the semi-final will be either 48/4 or 72/4, depending on the time this round takes.

Early on is when I need to work with the noobs most. That's totally backwards, and you're insanely micromanaging this tournament. You're providing my noob with definitions? Seriously?

It's for a reason: I want to remove the bias of definitions as much as possible.

Chris, I've given several reasons why I need more time for my noob, and why that request should take precedence over your desire to have a fast tournament. You haven't substantively responded to any of those points, and it feels like the only reason you're not accommodating me is that you don't want to accommodate me, not because it's the best thing for the noobs.

Look at the past few tournaments. How have they gone?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/31/2015 3:30:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I also have a real and substantive objection to your definition of "Freedom of Speech."

You defined it, according to my noob, as "the right to express any opinions without censorship or restraint." But that is just not reflective of reality. Free speech ALWAYS has limits. No reasonable society doesn't limit free speech in some way. In the U.S., you cannot shout fire in a crowded theatre, for instance. You're essentially forcing my noob to defend a position where there are no limits whatsoever on speech, which is categorically unfair. Fix this definition, please.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...