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Debate.org's corrupt voting system

triangle.128k
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8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,128
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8/25/2015 2:53:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it.

That...actually isn't true, nor is it the intent...

There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well.

I don't see how this is a problem with the system rather than the voters voting...

A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Okay then. What's your solution?
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triangle.128k
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8/25/2015 2:55:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:53:43 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it.

That...actually isn't true, nor is it the intent...

Sure, that's why votes always get deleted if you report them and find a good reason to do so. You can try to win debates by strategic reporting.

There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well.

I don't see how this is a problem with the system rather than the voters voting...

A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Okay then. What's your solution?

Reform the voting system, don't go around trusting every report on a vote.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,128
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8/25/2015 2:59:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:55:11 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:53:43 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it.

That...actually isn't true, nor is it the intent...

Sure, that's why votes always get deleted if you report them and find a good reason to do so. You can try to win debates by strategic reporting.

So can I just go to the debate I had with TinyBudha where the vote was reported multiple times and not removed multiple times? Not every vote is removed just because it got reported...whiteflame/airmax actually look at the reported votes...

There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well.

I don't see how this is a problem with the system rather than the voters voting...

A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Okay then. What's your solution?

Reform the voting system,

Okay, how do you wanna do this?

don't go around trusting every report on a vote.

This is already the norm.
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kasmic
Posts: 1,324
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8/25/2015 4:58:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

I feel very differently. I much prefer the voting now to a year ago when I first joined. While I do think that voting is a current issue, I think it is improving not getting worse.
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The-Voice-of-Truth
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8/25/2015 5:01:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

I know your edeb8 profile.......
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

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ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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8/26/2015 1:41:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I feel very differently. I much prefer the voting now to a year ago when I first joined. While I do think that voting is a current issue, I think it is improving not getting worse.

^^ Agreed!
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ColeTrain
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8/26/2015 1:42:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 5:01:11 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

I know your edeb8 profile.......

genesis01 ;P
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
The-Voice-of-Truth
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8/26/2015 1:46:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/26/2015 1:42:20 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 8/25/2015 5:01:11 PM, The-Voice-of-Truth wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

I know your edeb8 profile.......

genesis01 ;P

Yup.
"You're more of a fluentic fail doer who sometimes does a doo dah with a diggity ding, managing to push open doors that weren't meant to be opened, only to find that there's no floor, so you instead become spiderman and crawl on the walls." -Vaarka

I'm Rick Harrison and this is my pawn shop. I work here with my old man and my son, Big Hoss, and in 23 years I've learned one thing. You never know what is gonna come through that door
roguetech
Posts: 15
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9/9/2015 6:48:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

First, set up a true appeal system, rather than having to private message the mods.

Second, provide more mods. Won't decrease the number deleted, but it'll give the feel of greater democracy.

Third, reform the guidelines such that voters are given the benefit of the doubt. It would increase the potential for user abuse and decrease the number removed, but also allow more people to vote with less effort. That's not to say the requirements be gutted, just a subtle shift in favor of leaving the vote remain than is currently used.

Fourth, have the mods request clarification on questionable votes - not ALL removed votes, but where they may have confusion or doubt what someone is referring to - rather than unilaterally deleting it.

Fifth, promote voting, such as providing a vote score where every one removed counts severely against you, and everyone added counts somewhat in favor.
roguetech
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9/9/2015 6:49:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 6:48:00 PM, roguetech wrote:

Second, provide more mods. Won't decrease the number deleted, but it'll give the feel of greater democracy.

Also, with enough mods, two or more mods could be used to vote to remove any one vote.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/9/2015 6:52:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Appearing more democratic is a good ideal, make me scoring mod so I can PM whiteflame and ask him what votes to remove, and why. The appearance of democracy is great, but I don't want the downsides, so let's just appear democratic.
mishapqueen
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9/9/2015 6:54:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm afraid to vote because I don't have the patience to write down a long RFD. I hardly ever vote nowadays.
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roguetech
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9/9/2015 7:03:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 6:54:37 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
I'm afraid to vote because I don't have the patience to write down a long RFD. I hardly ever vote nowadays.

Ditto. As a new member, not deeply invested in the site, I will be quitting entirely over the vote situation[1]. I've had 5 debates, two tied for not having any votes (one with a vote having been removed). On the other two, only one vote. That's frustrating too. But I'm not willing to participate in debates expecting others to vote, if I'm not willing to vote. I see that as hypocritical.

If they're just relax the standards just a hair, I could put up with it... I provide an explanation, just often not up to the standards of the vote mod. It's like they want some specific special words, and I'm like "Just tell me what you want me to say!!"

[1] Just trolling the threads on voting to see if any changes are likely.
triangle.128k
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9/9/2015 7:19:47 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 7:03:17 PM, roguetech wrote:
At 9/9/2015 6:54:37 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
I'm afraid to vote because I don't have the patience to write down a long RFD. I hardly ever vote nowadays.

Ditto. As a new member, not deeply invested in the site, I will be quitting entirely over the vote situation[1]. I've had 5 debates, two tied for not having any votes (one with a vote having been removed). On the other two, only one vote. That's frustrating too. But I'm not willing to participate in debates expecting others to vote, if I'm not willing to vote. I see that as hypocritical.

If they're just relax the standards just a hair, I could put up with it... I provide an explanation, just often not up to the standards of the vote mod. It's like they want some specific special words, and I'm like "Just tell me what you want me to say!!"

[1] Just trolling the threads on voting to see if any changes are likely.

Exactly, the standards of voting should be a little lower, and very biased votes should be removed. You can get away with a biased vote as long as it's long.
mishapqueen
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9/9/2015 7:20:59 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 7:03:17 PM, roguetech wrote:
At 9/9/2015 6:54:37 PM, mishapqueen wrote:
I'm afraid to vote because I don't have the patience to write down a long RFD. I hardly ever vote nowadays.

Ditto. As a new member, not deeply invested in the site, I will be quitting entirely over the vote situation[1]. I've had 5 debates, two tied for not having any votes (one with a vote having been removed). On the other two, only one vote. That's frustrating too. But I'm not willing to participate in debates expecting others to vote, if I'm not willing to vote. I see that as hypocritical.

If they're just relax the standards just a hair, I could put up with it... I provide an explanation, just often not up to the standards of the vote mod. It's like they want some specific special words, and I'm like "Just tell me what you want me to say!!"

[1] Just trolling the threads on voting to see if any changes are likely.

Yeah, I've considered deactivating many times though for different reasons. There's only one member on here I talk to regularly, and I can talk to them elsewhere.
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bsh1
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9/9/2015 7:25:43 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 7:03:17 PM, roguetech wrote:
If they're just relax the standards just a hair, I could put up with it... I provide an explanation, just often not up to the standards of the vote mod. It's like they want some specific special words, and I'm like "Just tell me what you want me to say!!"

If you provide me a sample RFD, I may be able to help you understand what is going on with your RFDs. However, I am not a mod, and what I would say would be said in an unofficial capacity.
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Midnight1131
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9/9/2015 8:38:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Well, back when I was new all my votes that were removed were pretty short. But in some recent debates I've done, the length of most votes was pretty short, but some of them got removed and the others didn't. They kinda looked the same quality of voting for me, but I guess the mods noticed something in the content.

Biased votes stems from asking people to vote on your debate, it makes them feel obligated to vote for you [or at least it does for me.] There's really nothing you can do though, it's so hard to get votes now, it'd be even harder if you weren't allowed to ask people to vote on your debates.
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triangle.128k
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9/9/2015 9:40:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 8:38:30 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Well, back when I was new all my votes that were removed were pretty short. But in some recent debates I've done, the length of most votes was pretty short, but some of them got removed and the others didn't. They kinda looked the same quality of voting for me, but I guess the mods noticed something in the content.

Biased votes stems from asking people to vote on your debate, it makes them feel obligated to vote for you [or at least it does for me.] There's really nothing you can do though, it's so hard to get votes now, it'd be even harder if you weren't allowed to ask people to vote on your debates.

I guess all votes have some sort of bias, but I got a vote filled with total idiotic logical fallacies. Yet the mods didn't remove it because it was long. (I'm not going to call out who it was)
imabench
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9/9/2015 11:37:17 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/9/2015 9:40:44 PM, triangle.128k wrote:
At 9/9/2015 8:38:30 PM, Midnight1131 wrote:
At 8/25/2015 2:47:31 AM, triangle.128k wrote:
The voting system on debate.org is completely messed up. You can literally delete almost any vote if the RFD isn't super long if you report it. There seem to be a lot of strategic votes and overly biased votes as well. A lot of these strategic voters (i'm tempted to list their names) have even gotten away with their biased votes by giving a really long RFD.

Votes get deleted all the time, a lot are deleted over simple mistakes in the votes. The voting system needs serious reform.

Well, back when I was new all my votes that were removed were pretty short. But in some recent debates I've done, the length of most votes was pretty short, but some of them got removed and the others didn't. They kinda looked the same quality of voting for me, but I guess the mods noticed something in the content.

Biased votes stems from asking people to vote on your debate, it makes them feel obligated to vote for you [or at least it does for me.] There's really nothing you can do though, it's so hard to get votes now, it'd be even harder if you weren't allowed to ask people to vote on your debates.

I guess all votes have some sort of bias, but I got a vote filled with total idiotic logical fallacies. Yet the mods didn't remove it because it was long. (I'm not going to call out who it was)

You might as well name names otherwise people are just going to be inclined to not believe you. Lets see the vote in question for ourselves, otherwise you just saying that the mods didnt remove it cause it was long is just a baseless claim not worth giving any weight to
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