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***Official "How-to-Debate" Guide Release***

bsh1
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9/14/2015 6:12:30 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Aloha, DDO!

I am more than pleased to unveil our administration's "Official Guide to Debating on DDO." It took months of work and effort, but it has produced a comprehensive, detail how-to-guide that will soon join the NMRM!! sticky in the main forum. Some tweaking may be done in the coming days, but this is essentially the final product.

It is designed for people just starting out in their debating careers (or for people new to the online format) and attempts to explain to them the basics of online debate. It is also a useful guide for new tournament mods, laying out various dos-and-donts of hosting tournaments on the site.

So, without further ado, we present the guide! We hope it is helpful and enjoyable!

https://docs.google.com...
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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9/14/2015 6:14:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I will also take this time to thank all the reviewers, Zaradi, and Airmax--without them, this guide wouldn't have been possible!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
MisterMittens
Posts: 3,660
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9/14/2015 7:22:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm awed by the work put into this.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that it looks and reads like a published textbook.
Well done.
I'm handsome. Whoever disagrees with me can go die in a deep, dark hole.
bsh1
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9/14/2015 7:43:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/14/2015 7:22:19 PM, MisterMittens wrote:
I'm awed by the work put into this.
If I didn't know any better, I'd say that it looks and reads like a published textbook.
Well done.

Thank you :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/15/2015 4:57:26 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Bump
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/16/2015 4:05:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/15/2015 4:57:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Bump
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
BLAHthedebator
Posts: 982
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9/17/2015 12:48:24 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
*looks at index*
I can never be that organized.
I don't want a lot for Christmas
There is just one thing I need
I don't care about the presents
Underneath the Christmas tree
I just want you for my own
More than you could ever know
Make my wish come true
All I want for Christmas...
Is...
Youuuuuu
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 2:59:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/14/2015 6:12:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Many claps. :)
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/17/2015 12:03:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a good guide. I've just been annoyed with how slanted the site is towards the instigator.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 3:17:14 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

I agree that the instigator bonus should be significantly reduced if not totally eliminated. It was something I campaigned on last election. If and when Juggle reaches out to me, it is something I hope to discuss.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 3:17:38 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 12:48:24 AM, BLAHthedebator wrote:
*looks at index*
I can never be that organized.

Lol...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 3:18:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 12:03:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
It's a good guide. I've just been annoyed with how slanted the site is towards the instigator.

Thanks!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 3:18:19 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 12:57:10 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 9/15/2015 4:57:26 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Congrats! It is a very good guide and something to be proud of.

Thank you :)
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 3:18:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 2:59:55 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/14/2015 6:12:30 PM, bsh1 wrote:

Many claps. :)

Thanks!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/17/2015 5:55:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?

I'd suggest the judges ignore most of the rules.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 7:00:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 5:55:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?

I'd suggest the judges ignore most of the rules.

Lol. I was meaning how to improve (or remove, however you want to term it) the instigator's advantage.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/17/2015 7:08:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:00:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 5:55:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?

I'd suggest the judges ignore most of the rules.

Lol. I was meaning how to improve (or remove, however you want to term it) the instigator's advantage.

That's how you take away the instigator advantage. Judges have to act like vigilantes. I think judges disregarding rules they see as unfair or giving the instigator too much of an advantage, is a good ideal. Or they can act like vigilantes if the topic is unfair, which they already do to a certain extent.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 7:13:09 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:08:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 7:00:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 5:55:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?

I'd suggest the judges ignore most of the rules.

Lol. I was meaning how to improve (or remove, however you want to term it) the instigator's advantage.

That's how you take away the instigator advantage. Judges have to act like vigilantes. I think judges disregarding rules they see as unfair or giving the instigator too much of an advantage, is a good ideal. Or they can act like vigilantes if the topic is unfair, which they already do to a certain extent.

The way I see it, if you accept the debate as the contender, you accept the possibility of unfair/harsh rules as stipulated by the instigator. If you don't like it, don't accept the debate, simple enough. Better yet, challenge the person to a debate as the instigator with the rules you deem fair.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/17/2015 7:16:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:13:09 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 7:08:55 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 7:00:03 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 5:55:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 9/17/2015 3:04:45 PM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 9/17/2015 12:02:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
I have an issue with pro creating the rules. It seems unfair that pro chooses whatever topic they feel like putting in the challenge section, then they get to choose whatever rules they want. When you consider the instigator bonus, pro has too big of an advantage.

What would you suggest? Adding a clause that Con is able to modify the rules?

I'd suggest the judges ignore most of the rules.

Lol. I was meaning how to improve (or remove, however you want to term it) the instigator's advantage.

That's how you take away the instigator advantage. Judges have to act like vigilantes. I think judges disregarding rules they see as unfair or giving the instigator too much of an advantage, is a good ideal. Or they can act like vigilantes if the topic is unfair, which they already do to a certain extent.

The way I see it, if you accept the debate as the contender, you accept the possibility of unfair/harsh rules as stipulated by the instigator. If you don't like it, don't accept the debate, simple enough. Better yet, challenge the person to a debate as the instigator with the rules you deem fair.

You can put up any debate, no matter how unfair it is and somebody will accept, only vigilante justice mitigates this.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 7:26:57 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
You can put up any debate, no matter how unfair it is and somebody will accept, only vigilante justice mitigates this.

I've had debates not be accepted quite a few times. Regardless, the guide is good, and we're spamming the thread with *unrelated* content. ;P
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
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9/17/2015 7:49:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I think the guide is a fine reference for new debaters. Well done!

Regarding Pro specifying rules, if you don't like the rules offered don't accept the debate challenge and add a comment about why you think certain rules were unacceptable. I've tried doing debates without added rules, and the result is that I spend my time shoveling out the stall rather than riding the horse.

Con wins more debates than Pro, because it's easier to make stream-of-consciousness attacks rather than do the work of building a case. That's why there is an instigator bonus to encourage people to start debates. In top-level debates, both sides have to do lots of work, so there isn't so much of a need for a bonus, but in general it helps.
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/17/2015 9:36:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:49:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I think the guide is a fine reference for new debaters. Well done!

Thanks, Roy!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,292
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9/17/2015 9:56:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/17/2015 7:49:23 PM, RoyLatham wrote:
I think the guide is a fine reference for new debaters. Well done!

Regarding Pro specifying rules, if you don't like the rules offered don't accept the debate challenge and add a comment about why you think certain rules were unacceptable. I've tried doing debates without added rules, and the result is that I spend my time shoveling out the stall rather than riding the horse.

I'd tend to agree.

Con wins more debates than Pro, because it's easier to make stream-of-consciousness attacks rather than do the work of building a case. That's why there is an instigator bonus to encourage people to start debates. In top-level debates, both sides have to do lots of work, so there isn't so much of a need for a bonus, but in general it helps.

Whichever side I'm on, I make some sort of case... But I understand that some do not. You give a reasonable explanation.
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
tejretics
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9/18/2015 4:49:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It's a wonderful guide. I read it cover-to-cover, and it really is amazing. I've been using CWI without my knowledge, apparently. I've recommended it to the debaters I'm mentoring for the AANP Tournament.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bsh1
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9/18/2015 6:08:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/18/2015 4:49:04 PM, tejretics wrote:
It's a wonderful guide. I read it cover-to-cover, and it really is amazing. I've been using CWI without my knowledge, apparently. I've recommended it to the debaters I'm mentoring for the AANP Tournament.

Thanks :) I am glad you like it!
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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9/21/2015 7:52:29 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Just going to bump this one final time. I think it's a really great guide, and I'd like as many people as possible to see it.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,598
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9/22/2015 6:36:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/21/2015 7:52:29 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Just going to bump this one final time. I think it's a really great guide, and I'd like as many people as possible to see it.

It is very good work, are you able to pin/stickie it to the top of this forum so it's always available?
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth