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Judging bad debates

Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?
Varrack
Posts: 2,411
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9/23/2015 10:58:45 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?

There's no RFD required, so who cares? You can VB whatever side you want and no one will remove your vote.

That's probably a bad thing to do, but....hm. I might retract my vote later. For now though, it doesn't matter much.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/23/2015 11:02:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 10:58:45 PM, Varrack wrote:
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?

There's no RFD required, so who cares? You can VB whatever side you want and no one will remove your vote.

That's probably a bad thing to do, but....hm. I might retract my vote later. For now though, it doesn't matter much.

I know, I didn't explain mine until asked about it, but I just wanted everyone's insight
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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9/23/2015 11:22:53 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?

It seems clear cut to me. Pro makes an assertion that it's murder because it's a life and it's being ended purposefully. Con doesn't argue the point, merely saying that there are other circumstances to consider in the grand scheme of the choice. That doesn't contest Pro's view, and Con needed to do that to win. Ergo, Pro wins. I think Con just viewed this as a case of assertion not being enough to meet Pro's BoP, but without arguing that that's the case, there's no reason for a judge to buy that view.

*going to post this momentarily as my RFD*
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/24/2015 12:56:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 11:22:53 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?

It seems clear cut to me. Pro makes an assertion that it's murder because it's a life and it's being ended purposefully. Con doesn't argue the point, merely saying that there are other circumstances to consider in the grand scheme of the choice. That doesn't contest Pro's view, and Con needed to do that to win. Ergo, Pro wins. I think Con just viewed this as a case of assertion not being enough to meet Pro's BoP, but without arguing that that's the case, there's no reason for a judge to buy that view.

*going to post this momentarily as my RFD*

Yeah, I think we said the same thing but worded it differently.
Jonbonbon
Posts: 2,763
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9/24/2015 1:29:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?

I mean, your analysis is kinda right, whereas pro had an awful argument, and con had an off topic argument. You could argue that since pro didn't substantiate, con wins just by disagreeing with him. Or you could argue since con didn't argue on topic, it's the same as a forfeiture in a debate (basically like having no round at all), therefore pro wins.

So basically.

Flip a coin.
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lol101
Posts: 96
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9/24/2015 3:05:55 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Pro has the BoP

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?
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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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9/24/2015 3:23:43 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 9/24/2015 3:05:55 AM, lol101 wrote:
At 9/23/2015 10:53:27 PM, Wylted wrote:
How is it done when both sides have horrible arguments that seem off topic? For example the following debate. http://www.debate.org...

Resolution: Abortion is murder

Pro: "I think this is common sense. When you have a baby inside a women's womb, why do people think it is ok to kill them? Don't they deserve a chance? I understand when you say women need to choose, as I am a girl myself, but the right to live outweighs their chance to choose TO MURDER"

Pro has the BoP

Even so, she made arguments in the form of rhetorical questions relating to the topic. Not that I agree she has the sole BOP

Con: "Since my opponent has not provided any argumets all I need to do is provide 1.

If the mother is a rape victim it is unfair to make her keep her baby."

My thought is that Con's argument is about justifiable circumstances of abortion and not about whether it is actually murder or not, and pro atleast made some rhetorical questions loosely associated with the title of the debate.

What's everyone else's opinion?