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A Rant: Real Life vs. Online

bsh1
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10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant
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bsh1
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10/13/2015 11:49:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
For Further Reading...

http://www.newrepublic.com...
http://www.apa.org...
http://www.theatlantic.com...
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TheProphett
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10/13/2015 11:52:32 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

A complete mastery of social interaction is almost never a born-with skill. It takes time to develop an outgoing and social personality. Being online, it provides some with the courage to speak out towards others and be outgoing. While it may not be the real thing, I believe that it provides the people who are shy and awkward with a source to show their true personality, and that can help them develop courage in real life.
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bsh1
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10/13/2015 11:53:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:52:32 PM, TheProphett wrote:
A complete mastery of social interaction is almost never a born-with skill. It takes time to develop an outgoing and social personality. Being online, it provides some with the courage to speak out towards others and be outgoing. While it may not be the real thing, I believe that it provides the people who are shy and awkward with a source to show their true personality, and that can help them develop courage in real life.

Why is it not the "real thing?"
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TheProphett
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10/13/2015 11:55:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:53:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:52:32 PM, TheProphett wrote:
A complete mastery of social interaction is almost never a born-with skill. It takes time to develop an outgoing and social personality. Being online, it provides some with the courage to speak out towards others and be outgoing. While it may not be the real thing, I believe that it provides the people who are shy and awkward with a source to show their true personality, and that can help them develop courage in real life.

Why is it not the "real thing?"

Sorry, I don't think that statement had the effect I intended it to. I now see that I would like to replace it with "While it may not be the same as interacting with people in public, or face to face." It isn't physically the same thing, but I understand that interacting both online and face to face has the same framework.
Topics I would like to debate: https://docs.google.com...

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bsh1
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10/13/2015 11:56:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:55:49 PM, TheProphett wrote:
Sorry, I don't think that statement had the effect I intended it to. I now see that I would like to replace it with "While it may not be the same as interacting with people in public, or face to face." It isn't physically the same thing, but I understand that interacting both online and face to face has the same framework.

Would you say they're also of approximate value?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TheProphett
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10/13/2015 11:59:00 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:56:56 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:55:49 PM, TheProphett wrote:
Sorry, I don't think that statement had the effect I intended it to. I now see that I would like to replace it with "While it may not be the same as interacting with people in public, or face to face." It isn't physically the same thing, but I understand that interacting both online and face to face has the same framework.

Would you say they're also of approximate value?

Yes, they have the same effects on a person. I often feel reinvigorated after talking with a group of friends or hanging out with some people. Online provides the same sense of comradery and community as it does face to face.
Topics I would like to debate: https://docs.google.com...

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bsh1
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10/14/2015 12:01:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
And you cannot know how long I've waited to make that "basic bish" joke...
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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10/14/2015 12:02:08 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 12:01:28 AM, bsh1 wrote:
And you cannot know how long I've waited to make that "basic bish" joke...

Gah...wrong thread...-_-....lame...
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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10/14/2015 12:04:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I sort of addressed this recently.

http://www.debate.org...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Mirza
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10/14/2015 12:05:04 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
It is both the same and different, depending on how you frame the two. For instance, often people online are not behaving with accordance to their real life behaviour, and thus interaction with them is probably schematically perceived to be contrary to real life interaction, which makes it less valuable. However, when you are connected to someone and know them more in-depth, and can see beyond their internet character, the RL vs online divide is no longer there. It's real both ways.
PetersSmith
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10/14/2015 12:06:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I actually did a report on how people are more prone to the Dark Tetrad traits on the internet in real life. These are narcissism, sadism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. Their "real selves" don't necessarily exhibit these traits in real life, but for some reason the internet causes these traits to show and fester. I guess the quote that the "internet brings out the worst in people" is actually somewhat true. http://arstechnica.com...
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bsh1
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10/14/2015 12:12:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 12:06:28 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
I actually did a report on how people are more prone to the Dark Tetrad traits on the internet in real life. These are narcissism, sadism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. Their "real selves" don't necessarily exhibit these traits in real life, but for some reason the internet causes these traits to show and fester. I guess the quote that the "internet brings out the worst in people" is actually somewhat true. http://arstechnica.com...

One response to this is anonymity. But anonymity is slowing decreasing on the internet, thereby reducing this risk. People can easily be, to put it a bit simple, jerks, to those whom they do not know IRL, because the social consequences are different. But, as places like FB promote online connections with people known IRL, the risk of this decreases.

I would also suppose that a general lack of moderation or appropriate social checks leads to these issues, which isn't present on DDO. I think DDO has a pretty healthy atmosphere.

And, finally, I'd probably suggest that the traits are still present IRL, they are just better concealed. IRL, it is harder to publicly express or act on jerkish sentiments because the punishments may feel more "real" or serious to people. Being online merely gives them greater leeway to expose their inner jerk, but that jerk was probably always there.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

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bsh1
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10/14/2015 12:15:35 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 12:04:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I sort of addressed this recently.

http://www.debate.org...

I like how we started talking all because of a male model. In an odd way...that is totally unsurprising to me.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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10/14/2015 12:21:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I agree. The internet exists in the real world, not in some "fake" fantasy world where we are interacting with robots or characters sort of like a video game. People's personalities show over through what they type and it is no different from emailing or texting someone with the exception that you haven't met them in person.
zmikecuber
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10/14/2015 1:46:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I would respond to this, but I'm just on the internet and not in your real life, so my opinion doesn't count.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

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Zaradi
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10/14/2015 2:05:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm going to preface this by saying that there is something to be said about real life interactions and there differences with real life interactions. It's harder to notice smaller things about a person and their characteristics and mannerism over the internet than it is in real life. You can't see what color their eyes are, what shade of blue they are. You can't see how they walk as if they're bouncing with each step, or if there's a small limp in their gait from an old injury. You can't hear the small lisp in their voice, the sound of their laugh at a good joke. The way they accentuate certain words in odd ways.

Albeit there are certain things allow for some of this, Skype and Google Hangouts being notable examples, but it doesn't cover the full spectrum of what a "real life" interaction would cover.

However, and it's a very large however, this doesn't mean that online interactions are any less real and less genuine than interactions in real life.
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YYW
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10/14/2015 2:07:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I agree with almost all of this. The internet is not an "arms length" engagement; it's more personal, often, than IRL.
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Ore_Ele
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10/14/2015 2:32:28 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:53:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:52:32 PM, TheProphett wrote:
A complete mastery of social interaction is almost never a born-with skill. It takes time to develop an outgoing and social personality. Being online, it provides some with the courage to speak out towards others and be outgoing. While it may not be the real thing, I believe that it provides the people who are shy and awkward with a source to show their true personality, and that can help them develop courage in real life.

Why is it not the "real thing?"

He stated, because it is a different medium that allows us to be more upfront. We can say things that we normally wouldn't for the simple reason that online there are far fewer consequences to such actions. That makes it "different" and so not the same as real life interactions or "the real thing." I wouldn't say it is an inferior style of relationship, but it is not complete and if it is your only form of social interaction, you may find yourself in a life you dont enjoy.
https://www.psychologytoday.com...
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Vox_Veritas
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10/14/2015 2:39:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
For me personally, when it comes to debating, online is superior to real life. I'm able to think about every word that I say before I post and I'm able to plan every sentence. I can reflect upon my opponent's argument and respond adequately.
In real life I simply cannot debate well. Everything I say is scattered, I'm unable to take some time to go over everything my opponent said and think about it, and I go "uh..." way too much.
There's one or two debates on DDO which I can look back on and go "Wow, I made that?!" with pride. In real life I come across as a monkey chattering randomly whenever I'm trying to debate.
So what's wrong with the interaction on DDO being on the internet? In a few ways it's better.
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Vox_Veritas
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10/14/2015 2:43:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
That having been said, there is a certain quality to face-to-face interaction which online interaction has yet been able to match.
Call me Vox, the Resident Contrarian of debate.org.

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Skepsikyma
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10/14/2015 3:35:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 12:06:28 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I actually did a report on how people are more prone to the Dark Tetrad traits on the internet in real life. These are narcissism, sadism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. Their "real selves" don't necessarily exhibit these traits in real life, but for some reason the internet causes these traits to show and fester. I guess the quote that the "internet brings out the worst in people" is actually somewhat true. http://arstechnica.com...

It really annoys me when people include this in lists of 'bad' traits. Why? I can't see how Machiavellianism is anything but a good trait; it is, essentially, being realistic about human nature.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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1harderthanyouthink
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10/14/2015 5:09:29 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 2:32:28 AM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:53:21 PM, bsh1 wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:52:32 PM, TheProphett wrote:
A complete mastery of social interaction is almost never a born-with skill. It takes time to develop an outgoing and social personality. Being online, it provides some with the courage to speak out towards others and be outgoing. While it may not be the real thing, I believe that it provides the people who are shy and awkward with a source to show their true personality, and that can help them develop courage in real life.

Why is it not the "real thing?"

He stated, because it is a different medium that allows us to be more upfront. We can say things that we normally wouldn't for the simple reason that online there are far fewer consequences to such actions. That makes it "different" and so not the same as real life interactions or "the real thing." I wouldn't say it is an inferior style of relationship, but it is not complete and if it is your only form of social interaction, you may find yourself in a life you dont enjoy.
https://www.psychologytoday.com...

I like this interaction more than I do interaction elsewhere. I'm dissatisfied with the relationships I have to deal with, but my "real life" interactions are the main cause of negativity, not the internet ones.
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And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Vox_Veritas
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10/14/2015 2:54:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 3:35:54 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
At 10/14/2015 12:06:28 AM, PetersSmith wrote:

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

I actually did a report on how people are more prone to the Dark Tetrad traits on the internet in real life. These are narcissism, sadism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy. Their "real selves" don't necessarily exhibit these traits in real life, but for some reason the internet causes these traits to show and fester. I guess the quote that the "internet brings out the worst in people" is actually somewhat true. http://arstechnica.com...

It really annoys me when people include this in lists of 'bad' traits. Why? I can't see how Machiavellianism is anything but a good trait; it is, essentially, being realistic about human nature.

A group where every individual is attempting to manipulate the others is not a workable group. Therefore, Machiavellianism is anti-social behavior and people naturally do not want to be around known manipulators.
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bluesteel
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10/14/2015 3:02:33 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

(1) Congrats on making this thread. It's the first one in quite awhile that really caught my interest.

(2) I've literally told people that I went on DDO seeking a type of connection and intelligent conversation that was deeply lacking in my "real" life. And I've found that with multiple people on this site. Personally, I draw no distinction in my head between friends based on *how* I met them. I only draw distinctions based on how important they are to me. I would never consider an IRL friend inherently better merely because they are IRL. Friends who I met on the internet are still "real" to me.

(3) I do, however, see some merit to the criticism outlined in the OP in regards to online *relationships.* An important part of relationships is physical attraction, physical intimacy, and sexual compatibility. It's not impossible to verify that you have those things with someone you met on the internet *without* ever meeting them IRL, but it's a lot harder. And a lot of people don't. In essence, the idea of "catfishing" someone is that your relationship has everything that you would want in a romantic relationship *except* the physical compatibility (i.e. you're talking to a woman when you thought it was a man). The emotional aspect of the relationship is unchanged by such news, but the physical aspect and how you think about it is far different. I personally don't think an online relationship really becomes real until you see each other in person for the first time.

Your feelings are valid. How you feel about an "online" person is valid. The only factor is whether how you feel might change by meeting or spending more time with that person *in person.*

Any online friend who I value highly would be someone I really would like to and enjoy spending time with in person. When people say online friendships/relationships aren't real, it's *partly* unfair stigma, but it's partly a valid criticism that you may be engaging in some cognitive dissonance because this is not someone you would put up with in real life. And there's some things that have nagged at you about the online friendship/relationship that make it feel less "real." At the end of the day, the important part is - after you cut through the way we as human tends to bullsh!t our own brains - the person you're talking about is as important to you and good to you as a "irl" friend. Or whether you've forgiven transgressions or flaws that you wouldn't be okay with IRL because it's not "real" life.
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
Devilry
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10/14/2015 3:16:21 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
It depends on the person. As far as I'm concerned, I'm not likely to ever really fall in love with a person online. There's just no consequence to online, and as such there's no bond going to form for me. Trust, actual closeness, and real vulnerability are what really create bonds. I don't think you really know love until you've given yourself to someone to destroy. Maybe that's a bit over-dramatic though.

But then in the case of social recluses, well, maybe they might invest the entirety of themselves into some forum or other, and as a result their love actually be something quite deep. Hard to say. I've often woken up to Skype messages and had them make my day for me, not gonna lie. But it's something else entirely to wake up actually alongside someone.

It's not got much to do with looks especially; I don't agree with bluesteel on that.
: : : At 11/15/2016 6:22:17 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
: That's not racism. Thats economics.
Devilry
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10/14/2015 3:18:16 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I can't help but imagine online relationships are always quite shallow, to be honest.
: : : At 11/15/2016 6:22:17 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
: That's not racism. Thats economics.
YYW
Posts: 36,391
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10/14/2015 3:31:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 3:02:33 PM, bluesteel wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
It really, truly bothers me when people dismiss my experiences here as being "just on the internet." Why does something being "just on the internet" somehow decrease its value or meaning? Why couldn't I justifiably respond, "well you're interactions are just in real life"?

Personally, given my history on DDO, it seems obvious to me that the relationships and experiences I cultivate on this site are not necessarily or innately of less value then those I have in real life. My emotional investment in the friendships here, for instance, is not any less than those of people I might run into about town. And even when we consider the issue of "how" people make friends, it seems that whether it occurs online or IRL is unimportant. Friendships arise as trust is built; sharing secrets, building intimacy through gradual openness, etc. are all things that can be done just as thoroughly here as IRL, IMO.

People on this site also demonstrate the hallmarks of any normal, human community. They are capable of bickering, they are capable of great compassion, they work together to resolve problems, they develop cultural norms and site mores, they form groups and participate in joint pursuits...There seems to me to be no relevant difference between IRL communities and DDO, except that the latter requires a keyboard and the other requires handshakes.

Certainly, I know that there are people on this site who get a lot of necessary interaction here, and are more willing to open themselves up to this community than their IRL one, which allows them to feel less burdened. But it also increases their emotional investment in the site and in the people they talk to, thereby making it more "real" for them.

So...seriously...to say "it's just the internet" is to unfairly assign pejorative meaning to internet interactions, suggesting that somehow IRL interactions are more valuable and authentic where that isn't necessarily (nor always should) be the case.

/endrant

(1) Congrats on making this thread. It's the first one in quite awhile that really caught my interest.

(2) I've literally told people that I went on DDO seeking a type of connection and intelligent conversation that was deeply lacking in my "real" life. And I've found that with multiple people on this site. Personally, I draw no distinction in my head between friends based on *how* I met them. I only draw distinctions based on how important they are to me. I would never consider an IRL friend inherently better merely because they are IRL. Friends who I met on the internet are still "real" to me.

(3) I do, however, see some merit to the criticism outlined in the OP in regards to online *relationships.* An important part of relationships is physical attraction, physical intimacy, and sexual compatibility. It's not impossible to verify that you have those things with someone you met on the internet *without* ever meeting them IRL, but it's a lot harder. And a lot of people don't. In essence, the idea of "catfishing" someone is that your relationship has everything that you would want in a romantic relationship *except* the physical compatibility (i.e. you're talking to a woman when you thought it was a man). The emotional aspect of the relationship is unchanged by such news, but the physical aspect and how you think about it is far different. I personally don't think an online relationship really becomes real until you see each other in person for the first time.

Your feelings are valid. How you feel about an "online" person is valid. The only factor is whether how you feel might change by meeting or spending more time with that person *in person.*

Any online friend who I value highly would be someone I really would like to and enjoy spending time with in person. When people say online friendships/relationships aren't real, it's *partly* unfair stigma, but it's partly a valid criticism that you may be engaging in some cognitive dissonance because this is not someone you would put up with in real life. And there's some things that have nagged at you about the online friendship/relationship that make it feel less "real." At the end of the day, the important part is - after you cut through the way we as human tends to bullsh!t our own brains - the person you're talking about is as important to you and good to you as a "irl" friend. Or whether you've forgiven transgressions or flaws that you wouldn't be okay with IRL because it's not "real" life.

I agree with all of this, and it is very well stated.
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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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10/14/2015 3:39:06 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/14/2015 1:46:21 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 10/13/2015 11:48:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
/endrant

I would respond to this, but I'm just on the internet and not in your real life, so my opinion doesn't count.

Lol.
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