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*** DDO Census: Planned Parenthood ***

donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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10/18/2015 6:01:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I will be hosting a DDO Census thread every week on Sunday. The thread will start off on a controversial topic, where I post arguments to start the debate. (Why is it called the DDO Census? Because it sounded cool at the time.)

Rules of Debate:
- Keep clean.
- Don't overly spam someone. They should feel encouraged to partake.
- No "this belongs in X forum" posts. This series will move over many forum topics, and it's easier to just keep it in one forum. Plus it's a series, so it's better to post it here.

=== Topic ===

The Federal Government should not fund Planned Parenthood.

=== Arguments ===
I will throw out arguments to start the debate.

1- The Three Percent Myth.

A familiar claim from Planned Parenthood is that Abortion makes up only 3% of their operations. This is misleading in how they measure operators. Planned Parenthood counts all activities as equal when weighing them, so we see the following scenario take place:

You enter Planned Parenthood and receive a condom and an educational pamphlet. It fails, and you return. They give you a pregnancy test, an STD exam, and a single 30 minute class on parenthood, ending in abortion. Abortion will have made up only 16% of their operations by their measurement. We know an abortion is not equal to a pregnancy test in weight. In fact, abortion essentially makes up most of what Planned Parenthood offered the woman, as everything they offered came down to that abortion. This strategy is used to downsize the true quantity behind Planned Parenthood's abortion services by drowning them out with smaller services like handing out pamphlets and condoms.

2 - Funding of Abortion.

Some will point out that PP is not allowed to use Federal funding to pay for abortions. This ignores the nature of money. If PP has enough money to pay for service X and Y, but not abortion, and then you pay them $390 million + $90 million in Title X funding, they can pay for service X and Y with your money, and abortion with the freed up revenue. By opening up non-federal revenues for abortion funding, you have funded and promoted the operation.

Under the Title X fund, PP must use federal funding to offer abortion referrals and information to women, therefore funding the abortion industry via promoting it (as stated in section 1001 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 300).)

By funding a group that performs abortions, even if your money isn't directly used for the abortions, you are funding abortion. You fund the growth and expansion of the group (if your funding helps double the number of buildings. and therefore the number of abortions, you have funding the doubling of abortions) and fund the facilities that perform these abortions.

3 - Funding Controversial Activities is Wrong.

It is morally wrong to fund programs that too large a percent of the population oppose. With 70% of the country being against at least the majority of abortions (19% against all, and 59% against abortions with exceptions for rape/health issues,) too much of the population opposes the majority of abortion. To make the US pay for something so opposed is wrong. Essentially, 70% of the population is paying to promote something they oppose.

4 - Funding Other Groups.

The above holds more merit when we remember that there are other non-abortion groups that can be funded. This isn't a false dichotomy, where you fund PP, or all women are doomed. There are over 9,000 healthcare providers similar to PP, who are federally qualified, who could receive that money.

To fund the one group that performs such a controversial and nationally opposed procedure over the 9000+ better foundations is simply unjustifiable. It's the equivalent of needing to find an Asian government to befriend (think of an Asian operation Just Cause), and picking Vietnam over the many better nations.

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16kadams
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10/18/2015 8:09:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Stop PP funding.

Reason: end all corporate welfare.
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https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
YYW
Posts: 36,334
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10/18/2015 12:32:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 6:01:22 AM, donald.keller wrote:
The Federal Government should not fund Planned Parenthood.

1- The Three Percent Myth.
A familiar claim from Planned Parenthood is that Abortion makes up only 3% of their operations. This is misleading in how they measure operators. Planned Parenthood counts all activities as equal when weighing them, so we see the following scenario take place:

You enter Planned Parenthood and receive a condom and an educational pamphlet. It fails, and you return. They give you a pregnancy test, an STD exam, and a single 30 minute class on parenthood, ending in abortion. Abortion will have made up only 16% of their operations by their measurement. We know an abortion is not equal to a pregnancy test in weight. In fact, abortion essentially makes up most of what Planned Parenthood offered the woman, as everything they offered came down to that abortion. This strategy is used to downsize the true quantity behind Planned Parenthood's abortion services by drowning them out with smaller services like handing out pamphlets and condoms.

You have essentially conceded the argument there.

2 - Funding of Abortion.

Some will point out that PP is not allowed to use Federal funding to pay for abortions.

Federal money creates the kinds of conditions where abortion can be performed in a cost-efficient way. I'm not going to quibble with you over how federal dollars are used; they may as well be used to fund abortions. The issue is that pretending like federal money should not go to fund abortions is an absurdity.

3 - Funding Controversial Activities is Wrong.

It is morally wrong to fund programs that too large a percent of the population oppose. With 70% of the country being against at least the majority of abortions (19% against all, and 59% against abortions with exceptions for rape/health issues,) too much of the population opposes the majority of abortion. To make the US pay for something so opposed is wrong. Essentially, 70% of the population is paying to promote something they oppose.

Even if that were true, it wouldn't matter. What is at stake is individual access, and privacy with respect to medical procedures. Those individual rights are infinitely more important than any popular opposition to activities within that scope. Said another way, the majority doesn't get a veto on individual liberty because they don't like it. That's not how this country works, nor should it ever be.

4 - Funding Other Groups.

The above holds more merit when we remember that there are other non-abortion groups that can be funded.

The entire reason this is a controversial issue is because of some scandalized videos that came out on the internet by an anti-abortion group.

I just wish Democrats could do the same with these idiotic Benghazi hearings.
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imabench
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10/18/2015 3:13:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Politics forum --------------------> That way
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lannan13
Posts: 23,078
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10/18/2015 5:04:12 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 8:09:46 AM, 16kadams wrote:
Stop PP funding.

Reason: end all corporate welfare.

End Moral Hazard!
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

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Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
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10/18/2015 5:05:10 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 3:13:12 PM, imabench wrote:
Politics forum --------------------> That way

Stop being a Pinko and enjoy the convo. I'm sure he'll move it next week.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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10/20/2015 11:18:23 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I recently bought used fetus parts and used them as bait to go fishing on the bay. It worked better than gizzards or livers. Fetus parts def have use in the fishing industry
SamStevens
Posts: 3,819
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10/20/2015 11:54:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 11:18:23 PM, Mikal wrote:
I recently bought used fetus parts and used them as bait to go fishing on the bay. It worked better than gizzards or livers. Fetus parts def have use in the fishing industry

How quick do you think this new bait will catch on in the fishing industry?
"This is the true horror of religion. It allows perfectly decent and sane people to believe by the billions, what only lunatics could believe on their own." Sam Harris
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Death responded: "Because you are a beautiful lie, and I am the painful truth."
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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10/21/2015 1:32:37 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 11:54:54 PM, SamStevens wrote:
At 10/20/2015 11:18:23 PM, Mikal wrote:
I recently bought used fetus parts and used them as bait to go fishing on the bay. It worked better than gizzards or livers. Fetus parts def have use in the fishing industry

How quick do you think this new bait will catch on in the fishing industry?

Judging on the effect soon.
kingkd
Posts: 100
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11/23/2015 1:10:49 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/18/2015 6:01:22 AM, donald.keller wrote:
I will be hosting a DDO Census thread every week on Sunday. The thread will start off on a controversial topic, where I post arguments to start the debate. (Why is it called the DDO Census? Because it sounded cool at the time.)

Rules of Debate:
- Keep clean.
- Don't overly spam someone. They should feel encouraged to partake.
- No "this belongs in X forum" posts. This series will move over many forum topics, and it's easier to just keep it in one forum. Plus it's a series, so it's better to post it here.

=== Topic ===

The Federal Government should not fund Planned Parenthood.

=== Arguments ===
I will throw out arguments to start the debate.

1- The Three Percent Myth.

A familiar claim from Planned Parenthood is that Abortion makes up only 3% of their operations. This is misleading in how they measure operators. Planned Parenthood counts all activities as equal when weighing them, so we see the following scenario take place:

You enter Planned Parenthood and receive a condom and an educational pamphlet. It fails, and you return. They give you a pregnancy test, an STD exam, and a single 30 minute class on parenthood, ending in abortion. Abortion will have made up only 16% of their operations by their measurement. We know an abortion is not equal to a pregnancy test in weight. In fact, abortion essentially makes up most of what Planned Parenthood offered the woman, as everything they offered came down to that abortion. This strategy is used to downsize the true quantity behind Planned Parenthood's abortion services by drowning them out with smaller services like handing out pamphlets and condoms.

2 - Funding of Abortion.

Some will point out that PP is not allowed to use Federal funding to pay for abortions. This ignores the nature of money. If PP has enough money to pay for service X and Y, but not abortion, and then you pay them $390 million + $90 million in Title X funding, they can pay for service X and Y with your money, and abortion with the freed up revenue. By opening up non-federal revenues for abortion funding, you have funded and promoted the operation.

Under the Title X fund, PP must use federal funding to offer abortion referrals and information to women, therefore funding the abortion industry via promoting it (as stated in section 1001 of the Public Health Service Act (42 U.S.C. 300).)

By funding a group that performs abortions, even if your money isn't directly used for the abortions, you are funding abortion. You fund the growth and expansion of the group (if your funding helps double the number of buildings. and therefore the number of abortions, you have funding the doubling of abortions) and fund the facilities that perform these abortions.

3 - Funding Controversial Activities is Wrong.

It is morally wrong to fund programs that too large a percent of the population oppose. With 70% of the country being against at least the majority of abortions (19% against all, and 59% against abortions with exceptions for rape/health issues,) too much of the population opposes the majority of abortion. To make the US pay for something so opposed is wrong. Essentially, 70% of the population is paying to promote something they oppose.

4 - Funding Other Groups.

The above holds more merit when we remember that there are other non-abortion groups that can be funded. This isn't a false dichotomy, where you fund PP, or all women are doomed. There are over 9,000 healthcare providers similar to PP, who are federally qualified, who could receive that money.

To fund the one group that performs such a controversial and nationally opposed procedure over the 9000+ better foundations is simply unjustifiable. It's the equivalent of needing to find an Asian government to befriend (think of an Asian operation Just Cause), and picking Vietnam over the many better nations.

=== Have at Me ===

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airmax1227
debatability
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11/23/2015 6:18:05 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 10/20/2015 11:18:23 PM, Mikal wrote:
I recently bought used fetus parts and used them as bait to go fishing on the bay. It worked better than gizzards or livers. Fetus parts def have use in the fishing industry

i read this in class and literally snorted
Romanii
Posts: 4,858
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11/23/2015 6:41:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/23/2015 6:18:05 PM, debatability wrote:
At 10/20/2015 11:18:23 PM, Mikal wrote:
I recently bought used fetus parts and used them as bait to go fishing on the bay. It worked better than gizzards or livers. Fetus parts def have use in the fishing industry

i read this in class and literally snorted

Snorting things is generally inadvisable.