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What determines ELO?

KingofEverything
Posts: 590
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11/16/2015 12:35:03 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I literally don't know what defines it.

Do forum posts have anything to do with them?
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I am sorry Debate.org -KingofEverything

You guys can stop the circlejerk started around the election. It stopped being funny faster than Mirza's anti-American rants. -Jonbonbon

It's like when the kid who makes an ugly sand castle on the beach goes and tries to kick down someone else's sand castle because he couldn't make one as good as that. -YYW
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/16/2015 12:40:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 12:35:03 AM, KingofEverything wrote:
I literally don't know what defines it.

Do forum posts have anything to do with them?

You can find the equation for ELO in here, along with other info: https://docs.google.com...

But, to summarize, ELO is simply a method of calculating relative debating skill. It assesses the strength of your opponent, and your strength, and assign's points to the victor based on this so that, in theory, if you beat a stronger opponent, you get more points. It has nothing to do with forum posts.
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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 4:45:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 12:40:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 12:35:03 AM, KingofEverything wrote:
I literally don't know what defines it.

Do forum posts have anything to do with them?

You can find the equation for ELO in here, along with other info: https://docs.google.com...

But, to summarize, ELO is simply a method of calculating relative debating skill. It assesses the strength of your opponent, and your strength, and assign's points to the victor based on this so that, in theory, if you beat a stronger opponent, you get more points. It has nothing to do with forum posts.

I'm telling, that algorithm is incomplete. I messed with it some time ago, and there are other factors in the mix.

If there were any chance of doing anything on the site, I would vote for a overhaul of elo.
KingofEverything
Posts: 590
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11/16/2015 6:18:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 4:45:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/16/2015 12:40:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 12:35:03 AM, KingofEverything wrote:
I literally don't know what defines it.

Do forum posts have anything to do with them?

You can find the equation for ELO in here, along with other info: https://docs.google.com...

But, to summarize, ELO is simply a method of calculating relative debating skill. It assesses the strength of your opponent, and your strength, and assign's points to the victor based on this so that, in theory, if you beat a stronger opponent, you get more points. It has nothing to do with forum posts.

I'm telling, that algorithm is incomplete. I messed with it some time ago, and there are other factors in the mix.

If there were any chance of doing anything on the site, I would vote for a overhaul of elo.

Ask MLG TBR.
You're sweet. Thank you :) <3 -ESocial

I am sorry Debate.org -KingofEverything

You guys can stop the circlejerk started around the election. It stopped being funny faster than Mirza's anti-American rants. -Jonbonbon

It's like when the kid who makes an ugly sand castle on the beach goes and tries to kick down someone else's sand castle because he couldn't make one as good as that. -YYW
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/16/2015 7:17:24 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 4:45:18 PM, TBR wrote:
At 11/16/2015 12:40:20 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 11/16/2015 12:35:03 AM, KingofEverything wrote:
I literally don't know what defines it.

Do forum posts have anything to do with them?

You can find the equation for ELO in here, along with other info: https://docs.google.com...

But, to summarize, ELO is simply a method of calculating relative debating skill. It assesses the strength of your opponent, and your strength, and assign's points to the victor based on this so that, in theory, if you beat a stronger opponent, you get more points. It has nothing to do with forum posts.

I'm telling, that algorithm is incomplete. I messed with it some time ago, and there are other factors in the mix.

If there were any chance of doing anything on the site, I would vote for a overhaul of elo.

It is possible Juggle has changed it. How would you reform it? I would like to see the instigator advantage gone.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 7:24:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago

It is possible Juggle has changed it. How would you reform it? I would like to see the instigator advantage gone.

I think I went through this with you once. The idea I have in mind is much more complex than I am willing to explore right at this moment, but a key would be to age results. Newer debates have a greater impact on your score, expressing "improvement" in a user, and equalizing the top scoring achieved through longevity and total debate counts.

If the effort is to simply collect points, or populate a leader board "best ever", then leave it as is. If people who battle between like abilities, or UP are to be credited for the effort, then it needs work.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/16/2015 7:32:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 7:24:37 PM, TBR wrote:

It is possible Juggle has changed it. How would you reform it? I would like to see the instigator advantage gone.

I think I went through this with you once. The idea I have in mind is much more complex than I am willing to explore right at this moment, but a key would be to age results. Newer debates have a greater impact on your score, expressing "improvement" in a user, and equalizing the top scoring achieved through longevity and total debate counts.

If the effort is to simply collect points, or populate a leader board "best ever", then leave it as is. If people who battle between like abilities, or UP are to be credited for the effort, then it needs work.

Okay. I remember this convo from back when you were a purple circle.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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11/16/2015 8:31:39 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
Lets try to work out the concept using you and I.

Your ELO is 7,694 my ELO is 3,145.

Pro (you for this case) has a negative of -4,549
Con (for this case) has a positive +4,549

We want to make some percentage of the total available score for the debate reflect the difference is our abilities. Put another way, Con is competing at ~144.5% of his ability, pro at -59.12% of his ability. A user starts with a ELO of 2000, the scale tops out at 9000, so the biggest difference possible is 350% (for sake of the discussion. ELO can and should drop below the starting point). We don't want the entire thing to hing on the current score, but some "lever". This number we have calculated can be used on the back end of the total score, or as a factor in the score, some smaller percentage of the total. This, in the current score, is simply 10% ( W+9L )....

Know what. I could go on and on. I so don't think that there is any chance for any change.... Too bad. There really is a way to encourage debating UP and discourage sniping. Once you get to some respectable score, you would could be LOOSING points by picking on someone completely outside your class even if you won. The leader board could move with new active members going up and down quicker.
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/16/2015 8:33:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 8:23:12 PM, EvangilisticOmega wrote:
Sorry, but I don't really understand what ELO is, can someone explain it to me?

It is a system designed to weigh your debating strength relative to other users.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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11/16/2015 9:24:01 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/16/2015 9:23:21 PM, EvangilisticOmega wrote:
alright thank you.

Sure thing.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...