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Have your political views changed?

tajshar2k
Posts: 2,382
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11/25/2015 2:38:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I used to be

Con-Gay Marriage
Pro-Life
Pro-Torture
Pro-Iraq War
Pro-War on Terror
Pro-Communism (This was short-lived fortunately)
Pro-Censoring Hate Speech
Anti-Gun Rights
Anti-Drug Legalization
Con-Socialism (After my Communism phase)
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
UtherPenguin
Posts: 3,681
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11/25/2015 2:42:52 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:38:09 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be

Con-Gay Marriage
Pro-Life
Pro-Torture
Pro-Iraq War
Pro-War on Terror
Pro-Communism (This was short-lived fortunately)
Pro-Censoring Hate Speech
Anti-Gun Rights
Anti-Drug Legalization
Con-Socialism (After my Communism phase)

Used to be:

Pro-Choice
*really* Anti-Capitalist
Pro-Death Penalty (Now I'm just neutral)
Pro Homeschooling
*really* Anti-Free Trade (still am to some degree)
and a Wahabi (for a very short period of time, please don't put me on the NSA watchlist)

My big issues didn't necessarily change sides but became more moderate in the sides chosen. At one point, I was a border line commie.
"Praise Allah."
~YYW
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,382
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11/25/2015 2:44:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:42:52 AM, UtherPenguin wrote:
At 11/25/2015 2:38:09 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be

Con-Gay Marriage
Pro-Life
Pro-Torture
Pro-Iraq War
Pro-War on Terror
Pro-Communism (This was short-lived fortunately)
Pro-Censoring Hate Speech
Anti-Gun Rights
Anti-Drug Legalization
Con-Socialism (After my Communism phase)

Used to be:

Pro-Choice
*really* Anti-Capitalist
It's ok man...
Pro-Death Penalty (Now I'm just neutral)
Oh ya, I used to be pro DP also
Pro Homeschooling
Still am
*really* Anti-Free Trade (still am to some degree)
I always been pro free trade
and a Wahabi (for a very short period of time, please don't put me on the NSA watch list)
Ok I won't.

My big issues didn't necessarily change sides but became more moderate in the sides chosen. At one point, I was a border line commie.

For some reason, I always supported the Communists in the Cold War. I was actually sad the USSR collapsed. I'm glad that was short lived.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/25/2015 2:45:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I don't flip flop much.

I think the only things that have changed for me is Barack Obama, term limits. And I've become undecided on a few things, and relatively apathetic on things like abortion - but I haven't changed it from pro because I see it as a de facto apathetic position.

I'm also not counting any views from before October 7th, 2014. From mid-late February 2014 to then I was relatively inactive and had nondescript activity for the few weeks I was around at the time.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Midnight1131
Posts: 1,643
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11/25/2015 2:51:22 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:38:09 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be

Con-Gay Marriage
Pro-Life
Pro-Torture
Pro-Iraq War
Pro-War on Terror
Pro-Communism (This was short-lived fortunately)
Pro-Censoring Hate Speech
Anti-Gun Rights
Anti-Drug Legalization
Con-Socialism (After my Communism phase)

I used to be...

Pro death penalty
Con military intervention
Con legalized prostitution
Con labor unions
Con gun rights
Pro border fence
Pro barrack obama
Con homeschooling
Con smoking ban

I used to think socialism and communism were good ways of running a country.
#GaryJohnson2016
#TaxationisTheft
#TheftisTaxation
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:45:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't flip flop much.

I think the only things that have changed for me is Barack Obama, term limits. And I've become undecided on a few things, and relatively apathetic on things like abortion - but I haven't changed it from pro because I see it as a de facto apathetic position.

I'm also not counting any views from before October 7th, 2014. From mid-late February 2014 to then I was relatively inactive and had nondescript activity for the few weeks I was around at the time.

Flip Flopping is the stupidest term in politics. It was meant to describe politicians pandering for votes by changing their stated position, but has come to mean any politician that changes their mind. So suddenly its a political liability to revise your political stance as current events change and as individuals mature politically. Not to mention even the original meaning is stupid. Literally every politician shifts position to match public opinion, this isn't even necessarily a bad thing since politicians are supposed to be representatives of the public. Every time I hear that phrase I lose a little bit of hope for the political system.

Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

My opinion on term limits has also changed, thanks to this debate:

http://www.debate.org...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/25/2015 3:07:25 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 2:45:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't flip flop much.

I think the only things that have changed for me is Barack Obama, term limits. And I've become undecided on a few things, and relatively apathetic on things like abortion - but I haven't changed it from pro because I see it as a de facto apathetic position.

I'm also not counting any views from before October 7th, 2014. From mid-late February 2014 to then I was relatively inactive and had nondescript activity for the few weeks I was around at the time.

Flip Flopping is the stupidest term in politics.

What I'm saying is that my views have been relatively solid. I don't stay on the fence too much - it takes a lot to convince me to change my stances on things...I'm not a politician, anyway - so I don't see how this is relevant to direct at me.

Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

How so? I mean, my views have shifted, they just haven't changed all too much on our limited big issues.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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11/25/2015 3:30:23 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 3:07:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 2:45:54 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I don't flip flop much.

I think the only things that have changed for me is Barack Obama, term limits. And I've become undecided on a few things, and relatively apathetic on things like abortion - but I haven't changed it from pro because I see it as a de facto apathetic position.

I'm also not counting any views from before October 7th, 2014. From mid-late February 2014 to then I was relatively inactive and had nondescript activity for the few weeks I was around at the time.

Flip Flopping is the stupidest term in politics.

What I'm saying is that my views have been relatively solid. I don't stay on the fence too much - it takes a lot to convince me to change my stances on things...I'm not a politician, anyway - so I don't see how this is relevant to direct at me.


None of that was directed at you, I was just ranting about how much I hate that stupid phrase.

Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

How so? I mean, my views have shifted, they just haven't changed all too much on our limited big issues.

I'm pretty ignorant of what's listed on the big issues...I just mean that if your politics aren't substantially evolving during your late teens and twenties you probably aren't engaging in honest evaluations of your positions. Or you aren't being exposed to experiences and arguments that challenge your views.

People shouldn't change their minds at the drop of a hat, but I don't think anyone under 30 or so has really earned much "gut check cred." As you get older and have more experience to draw on you should be more hesitant to revise your beliefs, but youn adults should have fairly dynamic political views just by the nature of what It means to be young.

Odds are that you are wrong, regardless of what your opinion is. Even if you are right you are probably right for the wrong reason.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 3:30:23 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:07:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM, Raisor wrote:
Flip Flopping is the stupidest term in politics.

What I'm saying is that my views have been relatively solid. I don't stay on the fence too much - it takes a lot to convince me to change my stances on things...I'm not a politician, anyway - so I don't see how this is relevant to direct at me.


None of that was directed at you, I was just ranting about how much I hate that stupid phrase.

Very well then lol.

Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

How so? I mean, my views have shifted, they just haven't changed all too much on our limited big issues.

I'm pretty ignorant of what's listed on the big issues...I just mean that if your politics aren't substantially evolving during your late teens and twenties you probably aren't engaging in honest evaluations of your positions. Or you aren't being exposed to experiences and arguments that challenge your views.

People shouldn't change their minds at the drop of a hat, but I don't think anyone under 30 or so has really earned much "gut check cred." As you get older and have more experience to draw on you should be more hesitant to revise your beliefs, but youn adults should have fairly dynamic political views just by the nature of what It means to be young.

Odds are that you are wrong, regardless of what your opinion is. Even if you are right you are probably right for the wrong reason.

I'm open to many things, excluding a select few things that are usually disqualified as rational thought in my mind as being too religiously motivated. I might be young, but I don't believe things for no reason. It takes a lot to change my view because my views are based on pretty dedicated thinking. I'm not hesitant to change - I just don't. I'm more sympathetic with certain oppositions more than others now, but it's rare that I change. And I definitely have met a lot of opposition. For example, I go onto G+ nearly every night. I've been met with plenty of opposition on there. To say that I have no challenge to my views would be wrong.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Lexus
Posts: 169
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11/25/2015 9:03:11 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 2:38:09 AM, tajshar2k wrote:
I used to be

Con-Gay Marriage
Pro-Life
Pro-Torture
Pro-Iraq War
Pro-War on Terror
Pro-Communism (This was short-lived fortunately)
Pro-Censoring Hate Speech
Anti-Gun Rights
Anti-Drug Legalization
Con-Socialism (After my Communism phase)

-I used to be pro-West but then I realised how They are the scourge of the Earth, brother. I find security in fighting for recognition of the caliphate now (something I did not think of before joining the Islamic State)
mc9
Posts: 1,034
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11/25/2015 9:34:07 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I am weird, I seem to have been all over the spectrum (though I don't think I have ever been in the authoritarian side.
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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11/25/2015 11:20:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 3:30:23 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:07:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM, Raisor wrote:
Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

How so? I mean, my views have shifted, they just haven't changed all too much on our limited big issues.

I'm pretty ignorant of what's listed on the big issues...I just mean that if your politics aren't substantially evolving during your late teens and twenties you probably aren't engaging in honest evaluations of your positions. Or you aren't being exposed to experiences and arguments that challenge your views.

Lol... DDO over-exposes me to arguments that challenge my views. I shift ideologies on an hourly basis. It's hella annoying. I even tried being a subjectivist for a while. It made my head implode. Now I'm back to being a confused, left-leaning moderate.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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11/25/2015 11:21:56 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
They did in my mid thirties, I was an ultra liberal. Now a conservative. seeing how my tax dollars are wasted hand over fist, the never to be reduced let alone paid national debt and the cultural suicide of America by the liberal left is more than I can bare to watch. I pity my children and the massive debt that is being placed on them. They have no financial future.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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11/25/2015 11:39:35 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
My big issues from late 2013:
https://web.archive.org...

I completely changed my stance on abortion, death penalty, border fence, drug legalization, prostitution legalization, gold standard, and minimum wage. I was basically clueless about economics, and was a borderline communist (Endark knows). I've shifted on all of those issues several times since then, but they've stayed relatively stable for the past several months (aside from my brief forays into anarcho-capitalism and subjectivism). My religious/philosophical views haven't changed that much, although they've certainly become a lot more sophisticated and nuanced since then.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:30:23 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:07:25 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:01:47 AM, Raisor wrote:
Flip Flopping is the stupidest term in politics.

What I'm saying is that my views have been relatively solid. I don't stay on the fence too much - it takes a lot to convince me to change my stances on things...I'm not a politician, anyway - so I don't see how this is relevant to direct at me.


None of that was directed at you, I was just ranting about how much I hate that stupid phrase.

Very well then lol.

Anyways half the people on this website are under the age of 20...if your views aren't shifting it's an adverse indicator of your intelligence.

How so? I mean, my views have shifted, they just haven't changed all too much on our limited big issues.

I'm pretty ignorant of what's listed on the big issues...I just mean that if your politics aren't substantially evolving during your late teens and twenties you probably aren't engaging in honest evaluations of your positions. Or you aren't being exposed to experiences and arguments that challenge your views.

People shouldn't change their minds at the drop of a hat, but I don't think anyone under 30 or so has really earned much "gut check cred." As you get older and have more experience to draw on you should be more hesitant to revise your beliefs, but youn adults should have fairly dynamic political views just by the nature of what It means to be young.

Odds are that you are wrong, regardless of what your opinion is. Even if you are right you are probably right for the wrong reason.

I'm open to many things, excluding a select few things that are usually disqualified as rational thought in my mind as being too religiously motivated. I might be young, but I don't believe things for no reason. It takes a lot to change my view because my views are based on pretty dedicated thinking. I'm not hesitant to change - I just don't. I'm more sympathetic with certain oppositions more than others now, but it's rare that I change. And I definitely have met a lot of opposition. For example, I go onto G+ nearly every night. I've been met with plenty of opposition on there. To say that I have no challenge to my views would be wrong.

Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:23:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
I used to be a stupid democrat and have very simple beliefs, such as throwing money at poor people will save them, if a school is doing bad, the root cause is lack of money. I used to read a lot of Michael Moore books and eat that shitt up. I think my beliefs have taken a complete 360, and continue to take a complete 360.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:32:54 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
Oh, I used to also believe in God.

One time I thought it was smart to join the military and took the ASVAB, I got a 90 and was really close to joining but backed out.

I can't believe I almost sign up into participating in the very thing that caused 9/11 to start with. I'm just as bad, as the terrorists
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:42:46 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

I'd agree to that. There is just so much information in the world that a doubling of information in any single subject in a 6 month amount of time, should radically change your world view. I mean a lot of your conclusions may even remain the same, but you should laugh at your premises, or your views should be a lot more nuanced. probably more changed than nuanced though. Under thirty you should be learning so much that your views are radically changed after 6 months. Once you hit 30, the nuancing of your beliefs should start to happen.

This is not to say that your beliefs don't have a good foundation. This is just to say that you should be acquiring a bunch of new information, so fast that you're seeing a bunch of big changes to your world view.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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11/26/2015 1:37:40 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.

I think you confuse actual real world living and knowing better (WISDOM) with old people having a hard time being open to new ideas. As you get older you learn there are no new ideas only the repeat of old ones. There is nothing with regard to society that hasn't already been embraced tried and failed or succeeded. If an old person rejects your ideas, it isn't because they don't get it. They are rejecting it flat out because they have lived your ideas and the unintended consequences of your ideas.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 1:47:16 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 1:37:40 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.

I think you confuse actual real world living and knowing better (WISDOM) with old people having a hard time being open to new ideas. As you get older you learn there are no new ideas only the repeat of old ones. There is nothing with regard to society that hasn't already been embraced tried and failed or succeeded. If an old person rejects your ideas, it isn't because they don't get it. They are rejecting it flat out because they have lived your ideas and the unintended consequences of your ideas.

I'm just trying to convey a certain thing to that particular member. Sometimes I'm trying to communicate a message I want their brain to pick up, though I'm aware I'm not being totally honest.

This was more about me conveying the message that he should pursue new knowledge with an open mind, and with enthusiasm. If I'm too direct the message doesn't get through. I sensed that he felt it was some sort of attack, so I made it look like an attack of old people, so he would drop his ego, to try and really understand what I was saying.

When I'm actually trying to communicate ideals, I will use a number of techniques to get past people's egos. I don't like defending these forms of rhetoric.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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11/26/2015 2:52:51 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 1:47:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
I sensed that he felt it was some sort of attack, so I made it look like an attack of old people, so he would drop his ego, to try and really understand what I was saying.

I don't think you'll have a lot of trouble with my ego. It's been more or less dead for about a year now.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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11/26/2015 2:41:18 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 1:47:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:37:40 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.

I think you confuse actual real world living and knowing better (WISDOM) with old people having a hard time being open to new ideas. As you get older you learn there are no new ideas only the repeat of old ones. There is nothing with regard to society that hasn't already been embraced tried and failed or succeeded. If an old person rejects your ideas, it isn't because they don't get it. They are rejecting it flat out because they have lived your ideas and the unintended consequences of your ideas.

I'm just trying to convey a certain thing to that particular member. Sometimes I'm trying to communicate a message I want their brain to pick up, though I'm aware I'm not being totally honest.

This was more about me conveying the message that he should pursue new knowledge with an open mind, and with enthusiasm. If I'm too direct the message doesn't get through. I sensed that he felt it was some sort of attack, so I made it look like an attack of old people, so he would drop his ego, to try and really understand what I was saying.

When I'm actually trying to communicate ideals, I will use a number of techniques to get past people's egos. I don't like defending these forms of rhetoric.

The only thing you are conveying is that old people are stupid and just don't get it
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
Posts: 8,837
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11/26/2015 2:44:03 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 2:41:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:47:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:37:40 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.

I think you confuse actual real world living and knowing better (WISDOM) with old people having a hard time being open to new ideas. As you get older you learn there are no new ideas only the repeat of old ones. There is nothing with regard to society that hasn't already been embraced tried and failed or succeeded. If an old person rejects your ideas, it isn't because they don't get it. They are rejecting it flat out because they have lived your ideas and the unintended consequences of your ideas.

I'm just trying to convey a certain thing to that particular member. Sometimes I'm trying to communicate a message I want their brain to pick up, though I'm aware I'm not being totally honest.

This was more about me conveying the message that he should pursue new knowledge with an open mind, and with enthusiasm. If I'm too direct the message doesn't get through. I sensed that he felt it was some sort of attack, so I made it look like an attack of old people, so he would drop his ego, to try and really understand what I was saying.

When I'm actually trying to communicate ideals, I will use a number of techniques to get past people's egos. I don't like defending these forms of rhetoric.

The only thing you are conveying is that old people are stupid and just don't get it

You are essentially telling him to ignore the wisdom that older people bring to the table. It's not that old people always think they are right, they have more experience at being wrong.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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11/26/2015 6:24:31 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 11/26/2015 2:41:18 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:47:16 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 1:37:40 AM, sadolite wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:57:10 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:33:10 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 11/26/2015 12:19:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 11/25/2015 3:42:18 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
Well having challenge to your views and them remaining the same means you're recieving inadequate challenge to them or are stubborn. You need to either challenge yourself more or stop being a stubborn fool. At about 30, people usually start having a really strong basis for their political beliefs and stop making dramatic changes. It hasn't occurred with me yet, because my mind is either better at remaining flexible at most or I've spent a significant amount of years, not challenging my own views.

If in 5 years, you're not embarrassed about your current views (answer your under 35) than you aren't challenging yourself intellectually or you're an idiot.

I urge you to strive to disprove your own beliefs, and once those are disproven, strive to disprove the ones that popped up in their place, and continue this until your mind is no longer flexible. There are certain beliefs you'll keep throughout life, but for the most part, you should be able to look back 5 years and be embarrassed of your views at every single point in your life, until the age of 35.

I think that's an extremely unfair way to frame it. If my views aren't changing despite being challenged and evaluating them alone, that is hardly any indicator that I'm intellectually dishonest or an idiot. My changes are slow, but there shouldn't be a problem with that. It is possible for people to have beliefs that aren't bullsh!t when they're young.

Just to make it clear what I'm saying. Old people have a hard time learning and being open to new ideals. That's the summary of it. So take advantage of your intellect and fluidity of mind.

I think you confuse actual real world living and knowing better (WISDOM) with old people having a hard time being open to new ideas. As you get older you learn there are no new ideas only the repeat of old ones. There is nothing with regard to society that hasn't already been embraced tried and failed or succeeded. If an old person rejects your ideas, it isn't because they don't get it. They are rejecting it flat out because they have lived your ideas and the unintended consequences of your ideas.

I'm just trying to convey a certain thing to that particular member. Sometimes I'm trying to communicate a message I want their brain to pick up, though I'm aware I'm not being totally honest.

This was more about me conveying the message that he should pursue new knowledge with an open mind, and with enthusiasm. If I'm too direct the message doesn't get through. I sensed that he felt it was some sort of attack, so I made it look like an attack of old people, so he would drop his ego, to try and really understand what I was saying.

When I'm actually trying to communicate ideals, I will use a number of techniques to get past people's egos. I don't like defending these forms of rhetoric.

The only thing you are conveying is that old people are stupid and just don't get it

You're not the audience. you talk to kindergarteners differently about the same subjects than grownups
imabench
Posts: 21,210
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11/26/2015 6:27:44 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I used to be a dirty filthy hippie liberal, but over the past few years I've upgraded to just being a slightly unshaven hippie liberal....

Baby steps :P
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