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What Do You Want in a President?

EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?
headphonegut
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12/13/2015 1:18:35 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
German chocolate cake and a sweet bosnian man with a subtle style. le sigh face.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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12/13/2015 1:20:21 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
I'll vote for whomever makes me resident moderator of the economics forum.
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thett3
Posts: 14,348
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12/13/2015 1:29:55 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
I want someone to stir the pot.

I want controversy.

I want anger, passion, emotions, flame wars, hyped debates, tournaments, unique ideas and perspectives. I want Wylted.

I don't want rules and basic bitch political analysis.
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EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:31:15 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:29:55 AM, thett3 wrote:
I want someone to stir the pot.

I want controversy.

I want anger, passion, emotions, flame wars, hyped debates, tournaments, unique ideas and perspectives. I want Wylted.

I don't want rules and basic bitch political analysis.

Thank you for a good answer.
So what, exactly, would the president's role in this be?
headphonegut
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12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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12/13/2015 1:33:59 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?

I want someone who will make this website interesting. I guess it seems more that many of the older members have left and there aren't as many debates I'm interested in... or I'm just too busy to notice.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:35:11 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

I consider a discussion on what we should do to be serious, yes. If we need to change the entire thing, let's have it out. I'm open.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Why would you think this? I stand for the community, not the presidency itself. If people would like to alter that to better reflect the community, I'm, again, perfectly open. This anger and unrest seems to have erupted out of nowhere.

Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:36:42 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:33:59 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?

I want someone who will make this website interesting. I guess it seems more that many of the older members have left and there aren't as many debates I'm interested in... or I'm just too busy to notice.

How would someone go about doing that?
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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12/13/2015 1:39:47 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:36:42 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:33:59 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?

I want someone who will make this website interesting. I guess it seems more that many of the older members have left and there aren't as many debates I'm interested in... or I'm just too busy to notice.

How would someone go about doing that?

Good question. I can't think of an immediate answer to be honest. It's probably just me being lazy and busy and not paying enough attention to the debates that are going on... but I guess for me personally, bsh's presidency seems to have made the site more boring and less interesting. So I guess that's why I voted for Wylted.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Romanii
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12/13/2015 1:39:57 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:36:42 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:33:59 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?

I want someone who will make this website interesting. I guess it seems more that many of the older members have left and there aren't as many debates I'm interested in... or I'm just too busy to notice.

How would someone go about doing that?

By being Wylted.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,846
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12/13/2015 1:40:10 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:14:18 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
I think it's abundantly clear that this election has tapped into a deep and unsettled divide in the DDO community. No election since Mikal's has been this volatile and passionate. Despite everyone having nothing but praise for people like Bladerunner or bsh1, suddenly, a near-grassroots revolution seems to be unfolding.

So my question for you, as spoiled by the title, is this: What do you want to see in the DDO Presidency?

I've challenged every naysayer to debate the abolition of the DDO presidency. Only one has accepted. From this, we can conclude that most people do not wish for the presidency to go.

However, people frequently lament the presidency for being too weak, and now many users want to see it become even weaker, taking away the significance of official tournaments or site revival programs. And when, about a year ago, I advocated strengthening the presidency, no one wanted to do that either.

It's too weak but should be weaker. It should not be stronger. It should not be abolished.

People of DDO, what do you desire?

I want a President who can actually fix this website. This means, in a beautiful and ideal world, they can get Juggle to actually do something and improve this site mainly on a technical aspect. The things bsh did could easily just be organized by community members, and don't necessarily need the president besides maybe his/her seal of approval. The president knows what changes this site needs, but the majority of them require Juggle's cooperation and intervention, which seems like a distant dream now.
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headphonegut
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12/13/2015 1:40:25 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:35:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

I consider a discussion on what we should do to be serious, yes. If we need to change the entire thing, let's have it out. I'm open.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Why would you think this? I stand for the community, not the presidency itself. If people would like to alter that to better reflect the community, I'm, again, perfectly open. This anger and unrest seems to have erupted out of nowhere.

Then I completely misunderstood your posts when you said the presidency was not only relevant, but essentially necessary. At least that's what I took from them [your posts] in the threads you were arguing pro presidency. Which leads me to believe this post is just pandering. For what? I have no idea. I assume you are trying to say whatever issues we [excluding me] have bsh1 can fix them?

Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/13/2015 1:43:11 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:40:25 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:35:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

I consider a discussion on what we should do to be serious, yes. If we need to change the entire thing, let's have it out. I'm open.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Why would you think this? I stand for the community, not the presidency itself. If people would like to alter that to better reflect the community, I'm, again, perfectly open. This anger and unrest seems to have erupted out of nowhere.

Then I completely misunderstood your posts when you said the presidency was not only relevant, but essentially necessary. At least that's what I took from them [your posts] in the threads you were arguing pro presidency. Which leads me to believe this post is just pandering. For what? I have no idea. I assume you are trying to say whatever issues we [excluding me] have bsh1 can fix them?

I said the presidency was a symbol of the community. I said it was vested with soft powers. Which it is, but only to the extent we believe in them. As this election has demonstrated, it looks like everyone decided to up and quit believing in them. So I would like to know what people do want.
No, I am not and never have campaigned for bsh1.

Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 1:44:10 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM, Romanii wrote:
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.

Okay. Thank you.

So as long as Juggle remains nonresponsive, you believe the presidency is useless? Should it be suspended until Juggle decides to re-invest?
headphonegut
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12/13/2015 2:01:54 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:43:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:40:25 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:35:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

I consider a discussion on what we should do to be serious, yes. If we need to change the entire thing, let's have it out. I'm open.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Why would you think this? I stand for the community, not the presidency itself. If people would like to alter that to better reflect the community, I'm, again, perfectly open. This anger and unrest seems to have erupted out of nowhere.

Then I completely misunderstood your posts when you said the presidency was not only relevant, but essentially necessary. At least that's what I took from them [your posts] in the threads you were arguing pro presidency. Which leads me to believe this post is just pandering. For what? I have no idea. I assume you are trying to say whatever issues we [excluding me] have bsh1 can fix them?

I said the presidency was a symbol of the community. I said it was vested with soft powers. Which it is, but only to the extent we believe in them. As this election has demonstrated, it looks like everyone decided to up and quit believing in them. So I would like to know what people do want.
No, I am not and never have campaigned for bsh1.

Okay. What is the problem you're seeing with moving away from this?

Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
crying to soldiers coming home to their dogs why do I torment myself with these videos?
EndarkenedRationalist
Posts: 14,201
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12/13/2015 2:10:40 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:01:54 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:43:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:40:25 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:35:11 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:32:26 AM, headphonegut wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:19:52 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
While I appreciate the humor of these joke responses, I would like a serious discussion. The election has proven that this is a serious matter.

From what I understand the divide is exactly that. "This is a serious matter," I don't think people are responding well to that; in fact they are resounding with wylteds almost tautological attitude of what will be will be, or something like that.

I consider a discussion on what we should do to be serious, yes. If we need to change the entire thing, let's have it out. I'm open.

Simply because you think you've demonstrated the seriousness of the presidency. Committing the illogical observation of seeing what you want to see. And thus assuming you are in the right. I don't think there is any sort of argument to convince you. Discussion is therefore not only meaningless, but entirely futile.

Why would you think this? I stand for the community, not the presidency itself. If people would like to alter that to better reflect the community, I'm, again, perfectly open. This anger and unrest seems to have erupted out of nowhere.

Then I completely misunderstood your posts when you said the presidency was not only relevant, but essentially necessary. At least that's what I took from them [your posts] in the threads you were arguing pro presidency. Which leads me to believe this post is just pandering. For what? I have no idea. I assume you are trying to say whatever issues we [excluding me] have bsh1 can fix them?

I said the presidency was a symbol of the community. I said it was vested with soft powers. Which it is, but only to the extent we believe in them. As this election has demonstrated, it looks like everyone decided to up and quit believing in them. So I would like to know what people do want.
No, I am not and never have campaigned for bsh1.

Okay. What is the problem you're seeing with moving away from this?

Depends. What's the alternative? What are we moving to?


Personally I think it's [the issue] interesting but not interesting enough to make me take a stance on one candidate.
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 2:16:55 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM, Romanii wrote:
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.

*cough*
Vox_Veritas
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12/13/2015 2:21:47 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
Doesn't matter. Wylted isn't going to win anyway.
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Romanii
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12/13/2015 2:23:22 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:44:10 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM, Romanii wrote:
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.

Okay. Thank you.

So as long as Juggle remains nonresponsive, you believe the presidency is useless? Should it be suspended until Juggle decides to re-invest?

I don't really care what happens to the presidency. Doesn't matter either way. As long as it doesn't continue being what it is now. I would be more interested in seeing discussion of solutions to the fundamental problem here -- Juggle's unresponsiveness. Wylted actually shared some interesting ideas to that end via PM. I hope he makes them public soon.
EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 2:24:15 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:21:47 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Doesn't matter. Wylted isn't going to win anyway.

Regardless of the outcome, this matters. This unrest clearly reflects the desires of a significant percentage of the community. To me, it looks like people desire a laissez-faire, do-nothing presidency. Which is fine.
bsh1
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12/13/2015 2:26:09 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM, Romanii wrote:
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.

Let me ask you a question: would you vote for me or Wylted if Juggle were cooperative?
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EndarkenedRationalist
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12/13/2015 2:26:15 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:23:22 AM, Romanii wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:44:10 AM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 12/13/2015 1:38:57 AM, Romanii wrote:
It's not about being "stronger" or "weaker". It's about fulfilling the president's fundamental role -- being an ambassador to Juggle. Current circumstances disallow the president from fulfilling that role, which isn't their fault, but as long as the position is useless, we would appreciate it if they would quit pretending that they actually have any more influence than they otherwise would have as a regular member. Cuz they don't. And the pretending gets annoying. And sometimes it's even tangibly detrimental, in the case of the tournament regulations.

Okay. Thank you.

So as long as Juggle remains nonresponsive, you believe the presidency is useless? Should it be suspended until Juggle decides to re-invest?

I don't really care what happens to the presidency. Doesn't matter either way. As long as it doesn't continue being what it is now. I would be more interested in seeing discussion of solutions to the fundamental problem here -- Juggle's unresponsiveness. Wylted actually shared some interesting ideas to that end via PM. I hope he makes them public soon.

Well, that would be interesting to hear.

Why is such a bad thing to believe in a power of the presidency?
Romanii
Posts: 4,851
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12/13/2015 2:26:43 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:21:47 AM, Vox_Veritas wrote:
Doesn't matter. Wylted isn't going to win anyway.

He might have been winning right now, if you damned third-party trolls had some foresight...
Mirza
Posts: 16,992
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12/13/2015 2:28:21 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/13/2015 2:26:09 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Let me ask you a question: would you vote for me or Wylted if Juggle were cooperative?
Wyled, no question.