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Voting Reform Re-Announcement

Zaradi
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12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!
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Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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12/15/2015 10:44:44 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!

There was was a man named Liam, who was so cena that you coudnt see him. He made a dragon, rode a red wagon, and now he has magic that free em
Mikal
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12/15/2015 10:46:56 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!

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Mikal
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12/15/2015 10:47:44 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!

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Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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12/15/2015 10:58:11 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
*Addendum to the OP*

In addition, for those of you who decide to use this feature, we'd greatly appreciate it if you could send us a brief PM afterwards with your opinions on the new voting standard. Thanks!
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Hayd
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12/15/2015 11:23:25 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!

1) How will we access this when creating the debate? In the advanced options?

2) If we do not choose a setting, will it resort to the standard, or must you choose something? (the standard being what it is now)

3) Will there be more than one option for opt-in? If so, what will they be? (unless you don't know which seems likely.)

4) When (as close as you can) will these be implemented?
Zaradi
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12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:23:25 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 10:38:19 PM, Zaradi wrote:
Hey, DDO!

Now that (hopefully) some of the drama from the most recent election has died down, I feel it important to re-bring up something that has been buried slightly by all of the recently created and revived threads.

In the past presidency, one of our biggest promises is that we would work on the voting standards and create some kind of improved system to increase the quality of votes. I'm happy to say that we were successful in this, as with the announced voting reforms opt-in standards.

What it effectively does is increases the standards of quality that votes must meet in order to be considered legitimate votes. These standards are entirely optional - you may either elect to use these new standards or to not use these new standards as you create the debate.

While I won't go into full detail here as to what these standards are exactly, you are more than welcome to go here (http://www.debate.org...) to the original announcement and read up. I can also answer any questions you may have about the new system.

Thanks guys!

1) How will we access this when creating the debate? In the advanced options?

You'd literally just announce that you're using the new system. No check boxes or anything.

2) If we do not choose a setting, will it resort to the standard, or must you choose something? (the standard being what it is now)

The standard system (i.e. the non-new voting system) would be the default, yes.

3) Will there be more than one option for opt-in? If so, what will they be? (unless you don't know which seems likely.)

Currently the only opt-in option is for the improved voting standards. I haven't heard about any new plans to make more opt-in options, but if there were more things we needed to improved on, we could potentially create more depending on how well they work out.

4) When (as close as you can) will these be implemented?

Right naow.
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Hayd
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12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!
Zaradi
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12/15/2015 11:34:07 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.


Nope. Just an optional standard the voting moderation team is willing to go through to ensure higher quality votes for those who are looking for them.

Thank you!

)
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whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.
Hayd
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12/15/2015 11:49:10 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.

Yuppzeez. Is the opt-in more complicated than that, or do you literally just have to touch on every argument made?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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12/15/2015 11:51:46 PM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:49:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.

Yuppzeez. Is the opt-in more complicated than that, or do you literally just have to touch on every argument made?

It's effectively just touching on every argument made and how it factored (or didn't factor) into your vote and why. Leaving advise for the debaters to improve is encouraged.
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whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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12/16/2015 12:04:50 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:49:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.

Yuppzeez. Is the opt-in more complicated than that, or do you literally just have to touch on every argument made?

It's more involved than that. All of the detail is in that link Zaradi posted, and Bsh1 posted a paragraph summary of the major differences in the initial post regarding this.
ColeTrain
Posts: 4,325
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12/16/2015 12:07:00 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:34:07 PM, Zaradi wrote:

What exactly would the new standards be? Insofar as I have read, the standards are a little ambiguous...
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Hayd
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12/16/2015 12:07:52 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/16/2015 12:04:50 AM, whiteflame wrote:
It's more involved than that. All of the detail is in that link Zaradi posted, and Bsh1 posted a paragraph summary of the major differences in the initial post regarding this.

Ok sweet, see the doc now, awesome
whiteflame
Posts: 1,378
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12/16/2015 12:08:57 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
Speaking of which, here's the original post:

http://www.debate.org...

It mainly just has to do with addressing all of the arguments made by both sides (good or bad), showing your weighing calculus, and providing feedback.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,127
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12/16/2015 12:11:25 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/16/2015 12:07:00 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:34:07 PM, Zaradi wrote:

What exactly would the new standards be? Insofar as I have read, the standards are a little ambiguous...

The exact explanations can be found here (https://docs.google.com...) which was a part of the original post I linked in the OP. I'm not sure what you're finding ambiguous about them, so if you have a more specific concern I'd be happy to help clarify things.
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ColeTrain
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12/16/2015 12:14:19 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/16/2015 12:11:25 AM, Zaradi wrote:
At 12/16/2015 12:07:00 AM, ColeTrain wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:34:07 PM, Zaradi wrote:

What exactly would the new standards be? Insofar as I have read, the standards are a little ambiguous...

The exact explanations can be found here (https://docs.google.com...) which was a part of the original post I linked in the OP. I'm not sure what you're finding ambiguous about them, so if you have a more specific concern I'd be happy to help clarify things.

Oh... Thanks! For some reason, I must have glanced over the link in the original OP. Sorry!
"The right to 360 noscope noobs shall not be infringed!!!" -- tajshar2k
"So, to start off, I've never committed suicide." -- Vaarka
"I eat glue." -- brontoraptor
"I mean, at this rate, I'd argue for a ham sandwich presidency." -- ResponsiblyIrresponsible
"Overthrow Assad, heil jihad." -- 16kadams when trolling in hangout
"Hillary Clinton is not my favorite person ... and her campaign is as inspiring as a bowl of cottage cheese." -- YYW
bsh1
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12/16/2015 4:19:54 AM
Posted: 12 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:23:25 PM, Hayd wrote:
1) How will we access this when creating the debate? In the advanced options?

This is a very important question. You must (a) clearly state that you're using this system, (b) you must link the system in R1 of your debate so that you, your opponent, and judges can find it, and (c) your opponent must agree to the system and/or you must have a rule that by accepting the debate they accept the opt-in standards. So, really, there isn't too much you need to do to use the system; what matters most is being clear that you're using it.

3) Will there be more than one option for opt-in? If so, what will they be? (unless you don't know which seems likely.)

You must accept or not accept the opt-in as it is written. So, there is only 1 opt-in.

4) When (as close as you can) will these be implemented?

Immediately.
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Stefanwaal
Posts: 54
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12/16/2015 8:47:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
Many companies first do a few experiments with new products before they decide to mass produce them.

So, are you going to do a few experimental debates with these new voting standards to see how the public reacts? After all, right now multiple people already believe the voting standards are too high and it happens regularly a debate has 0 votes once the voting period ends.

Furthermore, testing can also bring any holes to light.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/16/2015 9:19:00 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/16/2015 8:47:33 PM, Stefanwaal wrote:
Many companies first do a few experiments with new products before they decide to mass produce them.

So, are you going to do a few experimental debates with these new voting standards to see how the public reacts? After all, right now multiple people already believe the voting standards are too high and it happens regularly a debate has 0 votes once the voting period ends.

Furthermore, testing can also bring any holes to light.

I think it might be a good thing for those opposed to those voting standards, do more non RFD debates. It's win win, in this case. Ones that want lower standards can have them, while not having to worry about those that want higher votinf standards.
Zaradi
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12/16/2015 10:46:43 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/16/2015 8:47:33 PM, Stefanwaal wrote:
Many companies first do a few experiments with new products before they decide to mass produce them.

So, are you going to do a few experimental debates with these new voting standards to see how the public reacts? After all, right now multiple people already believe the voting standards are too high and it happens regularly a debate has 0 votes once the voting period ends.

Furthermore, testing can also bring any holes to light.

A few things:

First, these new standards aren't mandatory. No one is forcing you to use these standards. Hence why it is an opt-in system.

Second, polling we've done has suggested that while there are some people who think that the current default standards are too rigid, that there's more people who think that the current standards are too lax and want better standards to have set for their debates.

Third, I believe Saph included also that those who use it are encouraged to send us their feedback on the standards and what they thought of them after using them.
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tejretics
Posts: 6,094
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12/17/2015 1:04:56 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.

If I say that the new system applies in the rules of an open challenge debate and a person accepts the debate, they're bound by the standards, correct?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
whiteflame
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12/17/2015 2:12:51 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/17/2015 1:04:56 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:46:05 PM, whiteflame wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:32:10 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/15/2015 11:27:03 PM, Zaradi wrote:

Oh, ok, thank you. I thought it was a setting you would choose when you create your debate, as if Juggle smoked.

Thank you!

Yeah, pretty much all of the effort for implementing this is going to be on me, so Juggle's out of the picture. Make it very clear at the start of your debate that both debaters have decided to opt into the system, and I'll hold all votes on that debate to these new standards. Note that this new system doesn't allow voters to ignore arguments made in the debate, and therefore will be more strict mainly when it comes to allocation of arguments points.

If I say that the new system applies in the rules of an open challenge debate and a person accepts the debate, they're bound by the standards, correct?

Bsh clarified this, so I'll just quote him:

"This is a very important question. You must (a) clearly state that you're using this system, (b) you must link the system in R1 of your debate so that you, your opponent, and judges can find it, and (c) your opponent must agree to the system and/or you must have a rule that by accepting the debate they accept the opt-in standards. So, really, there isn't too much you need to do to use the system; what matters most is being clear that you're using it."
EverlastingMoment
Posts: 51
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12/18/2015 4:10:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
After recent issues I've been having with the current voting standards I'm in full support for this reform.