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Moderator Update 12/19

airmax1227
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12/20/2015 4:47:41 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hey DDO!

I hope you are all well.

It's been an interesting and eventful last couple weeks, so I figured it was time for an update.

1) DDO Election

Firstly, I'd like to congratulate Bsh1 on his election victory. It was the closest election we have ever seen, and it certainly had it's interesting and controversial moments.

Wylted ran an interesting campaign, and though he may have come up just short, I wish him the best in any future interest he takes in the DDO presidency. I believe Wylted ran a fascinating campaign, and while there may have been some drama and less than ideal instances during this election, I do believe Wylted carried himself in a generally respectable manner.

2) Abolition

I just want to say that I personally believe there is value to the presidency for the site (and that will be, and should be debated for as long as people like), and there is most certainly value to the presidency to me personally as the site moderator - and that is not debatable, though that shouldn't be a large factor for any member's consideration of the institution. The president, by the nature of them being selected by the membership, feels a specific obligation to the site and to its members, and that obligation makes them likely to be more committed than anyone else, to do particular things. Ultimately, this means I can delegate things to them with the knowledge that it will get done. This also means that I can trust that projects I'm interested in pursuing can be done with the president with the enthusiasm and dedication necessary to see the leg work get done and the project finished.

Can anyone else do these things? Sure they can. But it hasn't been my experience that they are very likely to. I am regularly contacted by members who have interesting ideas that they want to run by me. I offer my thoughts and feedback on those ideas, and generally tell them to write up an outline of the idea and work out any flaws that need to be considered. It's pretty rare that a member gets beyond that point with anything they have suggested. In my experience, the reason for this is that there is a very short attention span for these things for most people. They come up with an idea, they suggest it to someone (usually me) and they leave it at that. They want someone else to do the leg work on it (usually me) while I would instead (because I don't have the time to work out every idea suggested to me) rather they have a complete plan, before it becomes necessary for me to implement it in some way.

This is where the DDO president comes in, and why they are indispensable to me. Every time I need feedback on an idea Bsh1, (and every other president with rare exception) gets back to me with their thoughts on that idea. Where I need them to do some of the leg work by contacting members, writing up the proposal, drafting language, or anything else necessary to see the project come to fruition, I know that I can trust them to do so, and simply because they feel an obligation to do so, because they are the DDO membership president.

Does this mean I can't trust anyone else with these things? No. But it is hard for me to find people willing and able, and it's far easier for me to rely on someone that has signed up specifically for that. Bsh1 has been the DDO president for over 6 months now, and during that time he has assisted me every time he has been asked to. He has done the leg work required of him, has offered his thoughts that I believe are the closest to what the community wishes, and that is because he takes the obligation seriously and recognizes his obligation is directly to the community. As far as I know, and I've given it a lot of thought, there is no way to replace that, and so I fully support the continuation of the DDO presidency.

Again, this is only my opinion and it's based entirely on my personal feelings and agenda. I do believe however that my agenda is also similar to the membership's and that is to improve the site in the best ways that we can. My opinion here in no way should be considered in any way more valuable than any other member. If you believe we should abolish the presidency, that's fine, and I respect your view on the matter because there are reasons it is problematic. I however believe that its positives far outweighs its negatives.

For those strongly committed to abolition, I only suggest that you go about this in a productive way. No arbitrarily designed petition is going to convince me that it reflects the will of the community, and no amount of complaining to me is going to make me relent and say fine, let's abolish it - not that I even could. If you want to abolish the presidency, find the right member to run on that specific platform. If that person is elected, it would be impossible to ignore the desire for that outcome, and that would have to be considered. But for right now, I believe the presidency is a net positive, it's negatives are minimal and rare and I ultimately believe that someone elected by the community can achieve great things for the site.

While there are many more things I can say about this issue, I believe that it's best I leave it there. I believe this is an important debate, and as long as it takes place in a reasonable and productive fashion, the community is better off continuing to engage it.

3) The Debate Champions League

This is a project I am very excited to work on and ultimately bring to fruition. It's a very ambitious project though, so there is a lot to consider to make sure it's done right. I realize I haven't updated the thread about it in awhile, and that's because of other things that have come up, but I want to assure anyone that is interested in this project, that it's being worked on. Bsh1 and I have discussed several aspects of this project, and I am excited to continue working on it with him and anyone else interested, to see it ultimately become a major feature of the site.

4) Tournaments

This was something Bsh1 and I had discussed awhile ago (we just hadn't followed up on it yet with specifics), and while we both have felt that the tournaments have increased in value in the way they were handled (with a sign up list), we concur that it's problematic to discourage member run tournaments. While we will come up with certain specific structural changes in the future to optimize site tournaments (to mitigate the issues related to official and unofficial tournaments being done concurrently), the way things have been handled is that there are official tournaments, and members are free to run whatever unofficial tournaments they like. So to be clear, you are welcome to host whatever tournament you like.

5) The Debate Challenge Period Section

I want to point out that the debate challenge period list is not an informal informational section of the site. Creating impossible to accept "Debates" (with the following specific intent - I'm not talking about doing so to wait until an appropriate opponent states interest) to list topics you want to debate, or to keep track of tournament progress, is not an appropriate use of that section. Those "debates" will be removed.
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airmax1227
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12/20/2015 4:50:32 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
6) Blade-of-Truth is the new deputy vote moderator

Whiteflame and I are deeply grateful for all the effort Bladerunner has put into his work as deputy vote moderator. Unfortunately, Bladerunner has taken a break from the site, and while we wish for him to return as soon as it is possible for him to, in the meantime, it is absolutely necessary that someone be responsible for the role of deputy vote moderator.

With that said, I am excited that Blade-of-Truth has accepted my invitation to become the next DVM. Over the next few days he will learn the policies and procedures, and I am confident he will do an excellent job.

I'd like to thank BOT for accepting this responsibility, and I wish him the best of luck.

7) Moving the election to January

I don't have any problem with this. This would mean that the other election would take place in July (rather than June), extending the current presidential term by a month. If we were to do this, elections would then be held the second weekend of July, and the second weekend of January. I think this would be just fine, especially in the case of the July election, when site activity is generally down anyway, so this should bring some extra activity and interest when it is most needed.

In the near future (perhaps in January or February), there will be discussion about presidential election voting standards (since we should hash those out about a dozen times so it doesn't have to be an issue right in the middle of the election), and we can discuss the issue of moving the elections as well.

8) Future discussion topics

In the near future (within the next month or so) I want to have detailed and productive discussions about things concerning the site. These topics will include:

1) Vote moderation
2) General site moderation, focused on conduct
3) DDO Presidential elections, voting qualifications, DDO presidency broadly

I hope for these to be productive discussions, so I'm giving everyone a head up on them. If you have serious issues you would like to discuss related to these within the thread that I post, please refrain from some of the generic types of complaints. For example, as it pertains to vote moderation, simply saying that you disagree with your vote being removed. While that's a valid complaint, I'd like it to be more focused than that, so if you are going to complain about vote moderation, please try to avoid making it generic and abstract, and instead, do your homework, come up with specifics (where appropriate), articulate your concerns to relate to the topic, and consider suggesting ways that we can improve these areas. I don't want these discussion to be simply about complaints (though to some degree they can be those also) but intended to gauge concerns, and listen to suggestions and reasonable feedback in an effort to improve things across all areas of concern.

9) That's all I can think of for now

Well I think that's it. If you have any questions or concerns, feel free to contact me via PM any time or feel free to ask anything you like here.

Have a great holiday and new years DDO!

Thank you.
Debate.org Moderator
bsh1
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12/20/2015 4:57:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I want to, firstly, extend my congratulations to BOT. I am confident he will excel in his new role.

I want to make a post myself about the election standards in the bi-weekly updates, which I'll resume this Monday. My administration is actively discussing and debating the issue of tournament reform as well. We realize this is an issue that needs to be addressed, as Max has noted.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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YYW
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12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I agree that maintaining the presidency is reasonable, and the right thing to do. I would add that the implication to this, presumably, is to highlight the incredible myopia of those who wish to destroy it. This is not surprising, and perhaps greater involvement of DDO members in the community might rectify this problem.

I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:09:02 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
I would add that troll candidacies are, generally, a disfavored thing. This sentiment is motivated in no small part by my dissatisfaction with being unable to run for "head nigga in charge." I renew my objection to moderation's largess and abject tyranny, in that regard.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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12/20/2015 5:11:22 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

Would people be allowed to target others in this forum. Say, X wants to vent about Y, but Y doesn't participate in the "no rules zone." Can X use the "no rules zone" to launch a personal attack against or to vent about Y in ways that would get X banned elsewhere?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:14:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:11:22 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

Would people be allowed to target others in this forum. Say, X wants to vent about Y, but Y doesn't participate in the "no rules zone." Can X use the "no rules zone" to launch a personal attack against or to vent about Y in ways that would get X banned elsewhere?

The plan is in its infancy, at this time. There's a legitimate discussion to be had about that, and I am not prepared to offer an answer yet.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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12/20/2015 5:17:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:14:00 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:11:22 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

Would people be allowed to target others in this forum. Say, X wants to vent about Y, but Y doesn't participate in the "no rules zone." Can X use the "no rules zone" to launch a personal attack against or to vent about Y in ways that would get X banned elsewhere?

The plan is in its infancy, at this time. There's a legitimate discussion to be had about that, and I am not prepared to offer an answer yet.

Okay. But, I will say, just to be open about my stance, that if these "no rules" zones allow people to comment about those who do not voluntarily agree to participate in the "no rules" zones, then I will not support, and actively campaign against, those zones.

If that concern of mine isn't part of the ultimate proposal, I will remain open, myself, to this idea.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,303
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12/20/2015 5:19:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:09:02 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that troll candidacies are, generally, a disfavored thing. This sentiment is motivated in no small part by my dissatisfaction with being unable to run for "head nigga in charge." I renew my objection to moderation's largess and abject tyranny, in that regard.
Tsar of DDO
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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12/20/2015 5:26:43 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

That rule sounds good. I feel it should be its own forum though, if it's just one thread I don't think anyone will post in it.
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:26:43 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

That rule sounds good. I feel it should be its own forum though, if it's just one thread I don't think anyone will post in it.

Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....
Tsar of DDO
airmax1227
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12/20/2015 5:40:47 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I agree that maintaining the presidency is reasonable, and the right thing to do.

I happen to agree, though most of what I related above is personal, and something many (probably most) active member's aren't aware of.

I would add that the implication to this, presumably, is to highlight the incredible myopia of those who wish to destroy it.

I think that this opinion is fine, even if I happen to believe otherwise. For many, all they see is the drama around it, and they don't see the actual good it does. For some it's not worth it, and again, I think those opinions are valid.

This is not surprising, and perhaps greater involvement of DDO members in the community might rectify this problem.

I think that's true, though I think everyone gets as involved as they would generally like to be. I realize there are some obstacles to entrance here (in terms of direct involvement), but those that want to understand the value of the presidency, shouldn't have any difficulty in doing so. Some just want to debate, some just want to socialize, and some want to do those things without the mere existence of the DDO presidency distracting from that. I think that's valid, but I also believe that if you want to avoid the drama and interest it brings with it (for only a short time twice a year), that it's easily avoidable. I also think that those most vocal about abolition are probably aware of what the president does, and the pros and cons of it. So I don't think greater involvement from them in the community is going to change their mind since they are well aware of the goings on here. I happen to disagree with their conclusions, but their view of the DDO presidency being a net negative to their enjoyment of the site is valid nonetheless.

I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions.

I've discussed this a little bit with Skep so far and I plan to continue to do so, but I still don't understand why this is being juxtaposed with the DDO election. I discussed this at some length in a G+ hangout (with Skep and others - you weren't in the hangout for the discussion I had about the election analysis and the rule free zone), and I still disagree with most of the "what this election means" types of analysis (I don't believe they make any sense nor have I seen any evidence backing them up), and especially this one.

So I'll address this as a side issue, because again, I don't view these as any way connected. I will discuss this issue to listen to the pros and cons of it, and I will consider it like I consider everything. Though again, I don't believe this has anything to do with the election, and my general thoughts on this are with great skepticism.

This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

As I said above, I'm willing to have these discussions, most of which will take place on G+ and in PMs (until a thread may be specifically made for the discussion), but again, I don't understand the reaction to the election necessitating a rules free zone. I don't see any connection whatsoever there, nor do I think this will reduce moderator workload (I believe most conduct violations are due to a lack of thoughtfulness/maturity, not a lack of place in which to be a jerk/uncivil or publicly hash out ones issues). I do understand some of the thinking here, I just don't believe that A) The election drama reflects anything to do with this B) This will be a net good for the site or C) Members (though people in general) should feel like a "rules free area" is a valid/healthy/mature/reasonable catharsis, nor that I should necessarily condone such a thing.

In any case, I will have discussions about it, and consider the proposal.
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Emilrose
Posts: 2,479
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12/20/2015 5:41:21 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:26:43 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

That rule sounds good. I feel it should be its own forum though, if it's just one thread I don't think anyone will post in it.

Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....

Like you? When you (for no legitimate reason) insisted I was someone else? Besides, there was clearly passive-aggressive emotion in your proceeding responses.

As for 1harder, again I apologized to him, but I believe that his reaction to me was due to his 'feelings get(ting) hurt'.
Commentator on a picture with David Cameron and a Cat: 'Amazing what you can achieve with photoshop these days. I'm sure that used to be a pig.'

Commentator on Hillary Clinton: 'If Clinton is now what passes for progressive, maybe this country deserves Trump.'

Commentator on British parliament: 'All that talent in one place, where is Ebola when you need it?'

John Kerry on words: 'These aren't just words, folks.'
YYW
Posts: 36,303
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12/20/2015 5:44:17 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:41:21 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:26:43 AM, Hayd wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

That rule sounds good. I feel it should be its own forum though, if it's just one thread I don't think anyone will post in it.

Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....

Like you? When you (for no legitimate reason) insisted I was someone else? Besides, there was clearly passive-aggressive emotion in your proceeding responses.

As for 1harder, again I apologized to him, but I believe that his reaction to me was due to his 'feelings get(ting) hurt'.

*rolls eyes*
Tsar of DDO
bsh1
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12/20/2015 5:45:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:41:21 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM, YYW wrote:
Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....

Like you? When you (for no legitimate reason) insisted I was someone else? Besides, there was clearly passive-aggressive emotion in your proceeding responses.

As for 1harder, again I apologized to him, but I believe that his reaction to me was due to his 'feelings get(ting) hurt'.

I don't think this is quite the best place to take things in this direction.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:46:00 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:40:47 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I agree that maintaining the presidency is reasonable, and the right thing to do.

I happen to agree, though most of what I related above is personal, and something many (probably most) active member's aren't aware of.

I would add that the implication to this, presumably, is to highlight the incredible myopia of those who wish to destroy it.

I think that this opinion is fine, even if I happen to believe otherwise. For many, all they see is the drama around it, and they don't see the actual good it does. For some it's not worth it, and again, I think those opinions are valid.

This is not surprising, and perhaps greater involvement of DDO members in the community might rectify this problem.

I think that's true, though I think everyone gets as involved as they would generally like to be. I realize there are some obstacles to entrance here (in terms of direct involvement), but those that want to understand the value of the presidency, shouldn't have any difficulty in doing so. Some just want to debate, some just want to socialize, and some want to do those things without the mere existence of the DDO presidency distracting from that. I think that's valid, but I also believe that if you want to avoid the drama and interest it brings with it (for only a short time twice a year), that it's easily avoidable. I also think that those most vocal about abolition are probably aware of what the president does, and the pros and cons of it. So I don't think greater involvement from them in the community is going to change their mind since they are well aware of the goings on here. I happen to disagree with their conclusions, but their view of the DDO presidency being a net negative to their enjoyment of the site is valid nonetheless.


I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions.

I've discussed this a little bit with Skep so far and I plan to continue to do so, but I still don't understand why this is being juxtaposed with the DDO election. I discussed this at some length in a G+ hangout (with Skep and others - you weren't in the hangout for the discussion I had about the election analysis and the rule free zone), and I still disagree with most of the "what this election means" types of analysis (I don't believe they make any sense nor have I seen any evidence backing them up), and especially this one.

So I'll address this as a side issue, because again, I don't view these as any way connected. I will discuss this issue to listen to the pros and cons of it, and I will consider it like I consider everything. Though again, I don't believe this has anything to do with the election, and my general thoughts on this are with great skepticism.

This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

As I said above, I'm willing to have these discussions, most of which will take place on G+ and in PMs (until a thread may be specifically made for the discussion), but again, I don't understand the reaction to the election necessitating a rules free zone. I don't see any connection whatsoever there, nor do I think this will reduce moderator workload (I believe most conduct violations are due to a lack of thoughtfulness/maturity, not a lack of place in which to be a jerk/uncivil or publicly hash out ones issues). I do understand some of the thinking here, I just don't believe that A) The election drama reflects anything to do with this B) This will be a net good for the site or C) Members (though people in general) should feel like a "rules free area" is a valid/healthy/mature/reasonable catharsis, nor that I should necessarily condone such a thing.

In any case, I will have discussions about it, and consider the proposal.

Regardless of what the election means, the no rules forum is still a good idea. It's not necessary that we talk about what happened in that instance, to support a rules free zone.
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dylancatlow
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12/20/2015 5:47:03 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Airmax is clearly just another shill of the DDO establishment. He pretends to care about dissenting voices when we all know he's really just interested in maintaining the dominant position he and others currently enjoy. Their plan is to portray themselves as tolerant of the abolitionist movement so as to give the impression that they are "for the people" when in reality they wouldn't hesitate to squash it like the vicious tyrants they are. They must be exposed and dealt with immediately.
YYW
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12/20/2015 5:47:13 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:45:42 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:41:21 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM, YYW wrote:
Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....

Like you? When you (for no legitimate reason) insisted I was someone else? Besides, there was clearly passive-aggressive emotion in your proceeding responses.

As for 1harder, again I apologized to him, but I believe that his reaction to me was due to his 'feelings get(ting) hurt'.

I don't think this is quite the best place to take things in this direction.

I would agree, and I continue to be perplexed as to why she has developed such an interest in me. But w/e... I've got bigger cookies to crumble.
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Emilrose
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12/20/2015 5:47:26 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:45:42 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:41:21 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:28:46 AM, YYW wrote:
Yeah... I think a lot of people do not like the idea that they are going to be hassled by moderation if someone else's feelings get hurt....

Like you? When you (for no legitimate reason) insisted I was someone else? Besides, there was clearly passive-aggressive emotion in your proceeding responses.

As for 1harder, again I apologized to him, but I believe that his reaction to me was due to his 'feelings get(ting) hurt'.

I don't think this is quite the best place to take things in this direction.

I'm just pointing out that his comment is technically hypocritical.
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YYW
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12/20/2015 5:47:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:47:03 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Airmax is clearly just another shill of the DDO establishment. He pretends to care about dissenting voices when we all know he's really just interested in maintaining the dominant position he and others currently enjoy. Their plan is to portray themselves as tolerant of the abolitionist movement so as to give the impression that they are "for the people" when in reality they wouldn't hesitate to squash it like the vicious tyrants they are. They must be exposed and dealt with immediately.

Clearly Max is a lizard person. We must consult David Ike for further reference, in that regard.
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airmax1227
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12/20/2015 5:48:45 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

In any scenario, that would have to be the case. It couldn't just become something where everything that anyone wants to say about anyone can be said here. Ultimately, the only thing I can see working to any degree, is that people posting in such a thread/sub forum, would be able to be exempt from the sites conduct expectations otherwise. But otherwise, member X, couldn't just start ranting about and insulting member Y, who didn't say anything in that thread/sub forum. Though, even this scenario would require details to be worked out. If member Y, posts some benign thing in that thread/sub forum, is member X now able to say any manner of hateful things towards member Y? As you've said, this idea is in its infancy, but it's clear there are some details that would have to be worked out.
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YYW
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12/20/2015 5:49:42 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:48:45 AM, airmax1227 wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:15:39 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:12:44 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:07:01 AM, YYW wrote:
I would add that as Skep and I have suggested, a generally "no rules" zone in the forums, where anything other than doxxing is permitted, would serve many useful functions. This will, I think, allow DDO users to vent their frustrations, and will also reduce moderator workload. This would be a "post at your own risk" forum, likely contained in one or two stickied threads in the "Misc" forum. No other part of the forum should be similarly 'deregulated', however.

I think that we ought to be prudent enough to ensure that we not allow a 4chan-style sh!t show to become an actual forum. Maybe less restrictions, but not "anything other than doxxing".

Again, there's a discussion to be had... like maybe a rule like "If you post in the thread, then you're fair game, but if you do not post in the thread, no one can publicly defame." But again, I don't want to put the cart before the horse here.

In any scenario, that would have to be the case. It couldn't just become something where everything that anyone wants to say about anyone can be said here. Ultimately, the only thing I can see working to any degree, is that people posting in such a thread/sub forum, would be able to be exempt from the sites conduct expectations otherwise. But otherwise, member X, couldn't just start ranting about and insulting member Y, who didn't say anything in that thread/sub forum. Though, even this scenario would require details to be worked out.

Yeah.

If member Y, posts some benign thing in that thread/sub forum, is member X now able to say any manner of hateful things towards member Y? As you've said, this idea is in its infancy, but it's clear there are some details that would have to be worked out.

I agree.
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bsh1
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12/20/2015 5:51:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:47:26 AM, Emilrose wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:45:42 AM, bsh1 wrote:
I don't think this is quite the best place to take things in this direction.

I'm just pointing out that his comment is technically hypocritical.

And, I don't think this is the best place to go down this road. That being said, I am not going to comment on it further.
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dylancatlow
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12/20/2015 5:51:39 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:47:58 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:47:03 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Airmax is clearly just another shill of the DDO establishment. He pretends to care about dissenting voices when we all know he's really just interested in maintaining the dominant position he and others currently enjoy. Their plan is to portray themselves as tolerant of the abolitionist movement so as to give the impression that they are "for the people" when in reality they wouldn't hesitate to squash it like the vicious tyrants they are. They must be exposed and dealt with immediately.

Clearly Max is a lizard person. We must consult David Ike for further reference, in that regard.

You would know. You're clearly part of the lizard squad as well.
Blade-of-Truth
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12/20/2015 5:51:53 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Hello everyone,

I want to formally extend my thanks and gratitude to Airmax for offering me the role of Deputy Vote Moderator in Bladerunners absence. I also greatly appreciate the show of confidence that Bsh and others have shared with me in light of this new role. I look forward to working closely with the community here and specifically with voting issues during my time in this position, and promise that I will perform these duties with the utmost standard of excellence.

My inbox is always open for any and all questions and concerns, so please feel free to contact me at anytime.

Again, thank you for this opportunity, I look forward to getting to work!!

*Sig change :))
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YYW
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12/20/2015 5:52:36 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:51:39 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:47:58 AM, YYW wrote:
At 12/20/2015 5:47:03 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Airmax is clearly just another shill of the DDO establishment. He pretends to care about dissenting voices when we all know he's really just interested in maintaining the dominant position he and others currently enjoy. Their plan is to portray themselves as tolerant of the abolitionist movement so as to give the impression that they are "for the people" when in reality they wouldn't hesitate to squash it like the vicious tyrants they are. They must be exposed and dealt with immediately.

Clearly Max is a lizard person. We must consult David Ike for further reference, in that regard.

You would know. You're clearly part of the lizard squad as well.

https://www.youtube.com...
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airmax1227
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12/20/2015 6:00:52 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/20/2015 5:47:03 AM, dylancatlow wrote:
Airmax is clearly just another shill of the DDO establishment.

haha a shill? Dude, I am the DDO establishment.

He pretends to care about dissenting voices when we all know he's really just interested in maintaining the dominant position he and others currently enjoy.

I care about listening because I believe that only through engaging in every discussion, and taking a sincere interest in it, can a reasonable conclusion be reached. Sometimes that means taking seriously issues that are harder to take seriously, but I don't generally like to just be dismissive of anything.

Also, as to what you said here about maintaining my position, I don't really need to pretend to do anything to maintain anything. I really could just be a dismissive (or outright) jerk and nothing would happen. That's not me or my style and I do genuinely care about this site, so that's not what I do.

Their plan is to portray themselves as tolerant of the abolitionist movement so as to give the impression that they are "for the people" when in reality they wouldn't hesitate to squash it like the vicious tyrants they are. They must be exposed and dealt with immediately.

I like to think I have a reputation for doing my best to listen to all sides of whatever issue. I don't need to be "for the people" (this is really the realm of the DDO president anyway - I am simply "for the site") or present illusions of tolerance for whatever agenda. I just do what I do for the site because I enjoy it, and part of enjoying the site is enjoying the community and genuinely doing what I can do to make their experience better. If that wasn't my agenda, I'd say to heck with this site and do something else.

In any case, I'm sure you are just joking here, but I figured I'd clarify anyway for those who might not realize that.
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thett3
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12/20/2015 6:02:18 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
Max is controlled--very sad! Wylted will make DDO great again!
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