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Why is everyone so anti-dogfighting?

kingkd
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12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?
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Raisor
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12/23/2015 2:56:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

From a utilitarian perspective:

The positive utility of factory farming is greater than that of dog fighting. The negative utility of factory farming is less than that of dogfighting. I leave it as an exercise to you to justify these claims.

From a deontology sl perspective:

dog fighting is inherently cruel, the practice is inseparable from cruelty. Factory farming may result in animal suffering, but the practice itself is not motivated by cruelty.

From a virtue ethics perspective:

Dog fighting is something only a cruel person could enjoy. One need not be cruel to engage in factory farming, a virtuous person could enjoy the fruits of factory farming while regretting animal suffering as an unavoidable outcome.

From a coherentist perspective:

Factory farming is more compatible with other moral values. Dog fighting is needlessly cruel while factory farming is suffering in service of some end.

I don't think factory farming (in general) is justifiable. Dog fighting still isn't morally equivalent to factory farming.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.
Raisor
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12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.
imabench
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12/23/2015 3:34:48 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

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Wylted
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12/23/2015 3:35:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

We can debate whether it would jeapordize food security. If you want to know what happens when poor people can't access meat, you can take a look at what happened to the civilians of Germany during WW2 who started eating their family pets or other random mammals, and knew better than to ask the butcher what type of meat they were getting.

We simply won't have enough meat to go around without factory farming, and the price would become too much for the poorest people in our society. Poor people can't survive off of Spaghetti and bread alone Raisor.
Raisor
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12/23/2015 3:54:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 3:35:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

We can debate whether it would jeapordize food security. If you want to know what happens when poor people can't access meat, you can take a look at what happened to the civilians of Germany during WW2 who started eating their family pets or other random mammals, and knew better than to ask the butcher what type of meat they were getting.

We simply won't have enough meat to go around without factory farming, and the price would become too much for the poorest people in our society. Poor people can't survive off of Spaghetti and bread alone Raisor.

Like I said, I'll debate you on this, it'll be an easy win for me.

The U.S. isn't wartime Germany. We have a robust food supply system that makes a wide variety of food affordable.

You don't NEED meat to survive, we could debate the relative health merits of a meatless diet but you won't die and most people eat like sht anyways.

I don't recommend it, but I basically lived off spaghetti (plain) from ages 11-13 because I was such a whiny eater. Anyways meat generally isn't as economic a good option as people think.

Anyways all o these arguments are just rationalizations. I wish people would just be honest and admit they ignore arguments against factory farming just because they like meat. This bs about food economy etc is all after the fact justification of your decision that factory farmin is ok.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/23/2015 4:03:11 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 3:54:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:35:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

We can debate whether it would jeapordize food security. If you want to know what happens when poor people can't access meat, you can take a look at what happened to the civilians of Germany during WW2 who started eating their family pets or other random mammals, and knew better than to ask the butcher what type of meat they were getting.

We simply won't have enough meat to go around without factory farming, and the price would become too much for the poorest people in our society. Poor people can't survive off of Spaghetti and bread alone Raisor.

Like I said, I'll debate you on this, it'll be an easy win for me.

The U.S. isn't wartime Germany. We have a robust food supply system that makes a wide variety of food affordable.

You don't NEED meat to survive, we could debate the relative health merits of a meatless diet but you won't die and most people eat like sht anyways.

I don't recommend it, but I basically lived off spaghetti (plain) from ages 11-13 because I was such a whiny eater. Anyways meat generally isn't as economic a good option as people think.

Anyways all o these arguments are just rationalizations. I wish people would just be honest and admit they ignore arguments against factory farming just because they like meat. This bs about food economy etc is all after the fact justification of your decision that factory farmin is ok.

Provided you have a reasonable definition of food security, I'm down. I lived off Ramen for a few years, I'm not sure I could do it permanently and It was very depressing, but Ramen isn't really vegetarian either, so atleast I didn't have massive vitamin deficiencies of the sort vegans get.

Factory farming is no doubt cruel, but it is neccesary. Eliminating it would wreck the country in numerous ways. We are way too populated to all get our food from local non factory farms. I don't even think it's possible, but for those in disadvantaged situations it's even worse, and wartime Germany is a good comparison. They also lacked access to meat, but had a large supply of other foods
Wylted
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12/23/2015 4:04:35 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 3:54:49 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:35:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

We can debate whether it would jeapordize food security. If you want to know what happens when poor people can't access meat, you can take a look at what happened to the civilians of Germany during WW2 who started eating their family pets or other random mammals, and knew better than to ask the butcher what type of meat they were getting.

We simply won't have enough meat to go around without factory farming, and the price would become too much for the poorest people in our society. Poor people can't survive off of Spaghetti and bread alone Raisor.

Like I said, I'll debate you on this, it'll be an easy win for me.

The U.S. isn't wartime Germany. We have a robust food supply system that makes a wide variety of food affordable.

You don't NEED meat to survive, we could debate the relative health merits of a meatless diet but you won't die and most people eat like sht anyways.

I don't recommend it, but I basically lived off spaghetti (plain) from ages 11-13 because I was such a whiny eater. Anyways meat generally isn't as economic a good option as people think.

Anyways all o these arguments are just rationalizations. I wish people would just be honest and admit they ignore arguments against factory farming just because they like meat. This bs about food economy etc is all after the fact justification of your decision that factory farmin is ok.

Do you ever look at the price of meat that doesn't come from a factory farm? Do you think poor people who are busy with work all the time and have no time to cook, can actually afford that crap?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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12/23/2015 4:19:01 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
This is not to mention that once you end factory farming the prices for fruits and vegetables and grains will dramatically rise, as the rules of supply and demand insist. People will lose their jobs and have less money to pay for the massively inflated prices of meats, grains and vegetables.
Raisor
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12/23/2015 5:01:23 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 4:19:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
This is not to mention that once you end factory farming the prices for fruits and vegetables and grains will dramatically rise, as the rules of supply and demand insist. People will lose their jobs and have less money to pay for the massively inflated prices of meats, grains and vegetables.

This is seriously laughable. Produce prices would most likely fall, since meat production is something like ten times more land intensive. L

Again man, I'll debate you on it.
Jonbonbon
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12/23/2015 5:48:06 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

Well I explained it all on your debate. Didn't you read that? That's basically all that needs to be said.
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Vox_Veritas
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12/23/2015 6:19:04 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

Because guided air-to-air missiles has made dogfighting largely obsolete.
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mc9
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12/23/2015 8:18:27 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

I think you may have just convinced me to go vegetarian.

Also this is the wrong forum for this.
mc9
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12/23/2015 8:35:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.
This is a good point as well
Wylted
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12/23/2015 9:20:58 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 5:01:23 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 4:19:01 PM, Wylted wrote:
This is not to mention that once you end factory farming the prices for fruits and vegetables and grains will dramatically rise, as the rules of supply and demand insist. People will lose their jobs and have less money to pay for the massively inflated prices of meats, grains and vegetables.

This is seriously laughable. Produce prices would most likely fall, since meat production is something like ten times more land intensive. L

Again man, I'll debate you on it.

So are you assuming that every single bit of factory space will be replaced with mom and pop farms and the food supply and cost will remain steady?
Wylted
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12/23/2015 9:21:49 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I mean mom and pop farms will have 5 cows in a space where factory farms would have 30. You seem pretty ridiculous Raisor
sadolite
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12/23/2015 10:44:36 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
I am not against dogs fighting, I only oppose them being placed in a confined area with no chance of escape and forced to fight to the death. If two dogs meet walking down the street unleashed and unsupervised and want to fight, who am I to say they can't. If one does not want to fight to the death, it can run away.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
sadolite
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12/23/2015 10:46:22 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

Isn't this what they call moral equivalency BS
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
kingkd
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12/24/2015 10:18:33 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 2:56:48 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

From a utilitarian perspective:

The positive utility of factory farming is greater than that of dog fighting. The negative utility of factory farming is less than that of dogfighting. I leave it as an exercise to you to justify these claims.

From a deontology sl perspective:

dog fighting is inherently cruel, the practice is inseparable from cruelty. Factory farming may result in animal suffering, but the practice itself is not motivated by cruelty.

From a virtue ethics perspective:

Dog fighting is something only a cruel person could enjoy. One need not be cruel to engage in factory farming, a virtuous person could enjoy the fruits of factory farming while regretting animal suffering as an unavoidable outcome.

From a coherentist perspective:

Factory farming is more compatible with other moral values. Dog fighting is needlessly cruel while factory farming is suffering in service of some end.

I don't think factory farming (in general) is justifiable. Dog fighting still isn't morally equivalent to factory farming.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would disagree that from a deontologist perspective factory farming is better.
See some videos of factory farming.

Fact. farming is much more widespread than dogfighting, which puts animals in confinement without room to move for their whole lives. Actually dogfighting may be better because at least the animals have a chance to fight and live, like gladiators. Being a gladiator is preferable to living in a jail witrhout room to stretch your entire life.
https://www.organicconsumers.org...
"(1) Each full-grown chicken in a factory farm has as little as six-tenths
of a square foot of space. Because of the crowding, they often become
aggressive and sometimes eat each other. This has lead to the painful
practice of debeaking the birds.

(2) Hogs become aggressive in tight spaces and often bite each other's
tails, which has caused many farmers to cut the tails off.

(3) Concrete or slatted floors allow for easy removal of manure, but
because they are unnatural surfaces for pigs, the animals often suffer
skeletal deformities.

(4) Ammonia and other gases from manure irritate animals' lungs, to the
point where over 80% of US pigs have pneumonia upon slaughter.

(5) Due to genetic manipulation, 90% of broiler chickens have trouble
walking."

http://www.farmsanctuary.org...

Cows are locked up in tiny enclosures for milk. They are taken from their mothers minutes after birth, causing great emotional distress to them.

I could go on but you get the point...

The excuses that factory farming is necessary is not true... eating meat takes more land than going vegetarian/vegan.

You stated that factory farming is not "motivated by cruelty" but cruelty is still the result. If Hitler had noble intentions to save the world but still caused the Holocaust he was still immoral. Intent is not everything

So dogfighting is on the same or higher level
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Raisor
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12/25/2015 5:52:50 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/24/2015 10:18:33 PM, kingkd wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:56:48 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

From a utilitarian perspective:

The positive utility of factory farming is greater than that of dog fighting. The negative utility of factory farming is less than that of dogfighting. I leave it as an exercise to you to justify these claims.

From a deontology sl perspective:

dog fighting is inherently cruel, the practice is inseparable from cruelty. Factory farming may result in animal suffering, but the practice itself is not motivated by cruelty.

From a virtue ethics perspective:

Dog fighting is something only a cruel person could enjoy. One need not be cruel to engage in factory farming, a virtuous person could enjoy the fruits of factory farming while regretting animal suffering as an unavoidable outcome.

From a coherentist perspective:

Factory farming is more compatible with other moral values. Dog fighting is needlessly cruel while factory farming is suffering in service of some end.

I don't think factory farming (in general) is justifiable. Dog fighting still isn't morally equivalent to factory farming.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

I would disagree that from a deontologist perspective factory farming is better.
See some videos of factory farming.

Fact. farming is much more widespread than dogfighting, which puts animals in confinement without room to move for their whole lives. Actually dogfighting may be better because at least the animals have a chance to fight and live, like gladiators. Being a gladiator is preferable to living in a jail witrhout room to stretch your entire life.
https://www.organicconsumers.org...
"(1) Each full-grown chicken in a factory farm has as little as six-tenths
of a square foot of space. Because of the crowding, they often become
aggressive and sometimes eat each other. This has lead to the painful
practice of debeaking the birds.

(2) Hogs become aggressive in tight spaces and often bite each other's
tails, which has caused many farmers to cut the tails off.

(3) Concrete or slatted floors allow for easy removal of manure, but
because they are unnatural surfaces for pigs, the animals often suffer
skeletal deformities.

(4) Ammonia and other gases from manure irritate animals' lungs, to the
point where over 80% of US pigs have pneumonia upon slaughter.

(5) Due to genetic manipulation, 90% of broiler chickens have trouble
walking."

http://www.farmsanctuary.org...

Cows are locked up in tiny enclosures for milk. They are taken from their mothers minutes after birth, causing great emotional distress to them.

I could go on but you get the point...

The excuses that factory farming is necessary is not true... eating meat takes more land than going vegetarian/vegan.

You stated that factory farming is not "motivated by cruelty" but cruelty is still the result. If Hitler had noble intentions to save the world but still caused the Holocaust he was still immoral. Intent is not everything

So dogfighting is on the same or higher level

Lol you are missing my point about deontology...motivation isn't he same as consequence.

I know plenty about factory farming. Still factory farming and dog fighting are not morally equivalent.
16kadams
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12/26/2015 1:40:58 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

Wouldn't ending it increase prices, leading to poor people here and abroad starve to death?
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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12/26/2015 2:06:09 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 1:40:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

Wouldn't ending it increase prices, leading to poor people here and abroad starve to death?

There's a few factors in play.

First, there's a huge surplus of food supply capacity in the us. Very few people starve in the U.S. What issues there with food supply have to do with resource distribution (I.e. Poverty and access to affordable food and food banks). So consider something like the issue of food deserts, where people in poor urban areas do not have nearby grocery stores.

Then there's the fact that sustainable agriculture would offset some of the demand reduction...it would definitely mean less meat available and the meat would be more expensive, but the result probably wouldn't be only rich people eating meat. The result would be a reduction in meat consumption in response to higher prices.

Meat production uses a lot more land than agriculture. There is farmland dedicated to feeding livestock, this land opens up for farming for human consumption when demand for meat goes down.

If produce prices did increase the market would presumably respond by increasing production of produce.

From a policy perspective I would prefer additional regulation of farming practices to ensure humane conditions. I'd also like clear standard on labeling products made with additional consideration for animal welfare (current labels like "humane" and "free range" are pretty worthless in this respect). Then there's just education. I think awareness of how terrible many practices are does translate into a shift in demand. I also really like half measures like people who decide to only eat meat for dinner or only eat meat three meals a week. The U.S. consumes an absurd amount of meat, people should eat less meat even if they aren't willing to give it up.
16kadams
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12/26/2015 2:44:08 AM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 2:06:09 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/26/2015 1:40:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

Wouldn't ending it increase prices, leading to poor people here and abroad starve to death?

There's a few factors in play.

First, there's a huge surplus of food supply capacity in the us. Very few people starve in the U.S. What issues there with food supply have to do with resource distribution (I.e. Poverty and access to affordable food and food banks). So consider something like the issue of food deserts, where people in poor urban areas do not have nearby grocery stores.

Then there's the fact that sustainable agriculture would offset some of the demand reduction...it would definitely mean less meat available and the meat would be more expensive, but the result probably wouldn't be only rich people eating meat. The result would be a reduction in meat consumption in response to higher prices.

Meat production uses a lot more land than agriculture. There is farmland dedicated to feeding livestock, this land opens up for farming for human consumption when demand for meat goes down.

If produce prices did increase the market would presumably respond by increasing production of produce.

From a policy perspective I would prefer additional regulation of farming practices to ensure humane conditions. I'd also like clear standard on labeling products made with additional consideration for animal welfare (current labels like "humane" and "free range" are pretty worthless in this respect). Then there's just education. I think awareness of how terrible many practices are does translate into a shift in demand. I also really like half measures like people who decide to only eat meat for dinner or only eat meat three meals a week. The U.S. consumes an absurd amount of meat, people should eat less meat even if they aren't willing to give it up.


Never. I would rather die young from obesity and cancer from eating meat than give it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Serious
https://www.youtube.com...
https://rekonomics.wordpress.com...
"A trend is a trend, but the question is, will it bend? Will it alter its course through some unforeseen force and come to a premature end?" -- Alec Cairncross
Raisor
Posts: 4,459
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12/26/2015 6:45:41 PM
Posted: 11 months ago
At 12/26/2015 2:44:08 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/26/2015 2:06:09 AM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/26/2015 1:40:58 AM, 16kadams wrote:
At 12/23/2015 3:26:24 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 12/23/2015 2:58:45 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 12/23/2015 1:52:29 PM, kingkd wrote:
What is with the anti-dogfighting attitude of average people, yet they support factory farming?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com...

99% of meat is factory farmed so most meat eaters (practically all) meat eaters support factory farming by funding and sponsoring it.

What makes dogfighting so much inherently worse as to be illegal? All the arguments are unconvincing. Morality is not an argument as factory farming locks up animals in tight confinement without space for their whole lives and then brutally kills them.

So my question: Is there a good argument or system of morality that says dogs should have more rights than pigs/cows/chickens? Or is factory farming inherently moral? If so, in what way?

There really is a good argument for that. While factory farming is cruel and sucks for animals, if it were to stop, many people would starve and die. That's not an exxageration. Dog fighting has no useful purpose, it doesn't aid in anyone's survival.

That actually is an exageration. Factory farming is not critical to us food supply. I will debate you on whether oil awing factory farming would jeopardize us food security.

Wouldn't ending it increase prices, leading to poor people here and abroad starve to death?

There's a few factors in play.

First, there's a huge surplus of food supply capacity in the us. Very few people starve in the U.S. What issues there with food supply have to do with resource distribution (I.e. Poverty and access to affordable food and food banks). So consider something like the issue of food deserts, where people in poor urban areas do not have nearby grocery stores.

Then there's the fact that sustainable agriculture would offset some of the demand reduction...it would definitely mean less meat available and the meat would be more expensive, but the result probably wouldn't be only rich people eating meat. The result would be a reduction in meat consumption in response to higher prices.

Meat production uses a lot more land than agriculture. There is farmland dedicated to feeding livestock, this land opens up for farming for human consumption when demand for meat goes down.

If produce prices did increase the market would presumably respond by increasing production of produce.

From a policy perspective I would prefer additional regulation of farming practices to ensure humane conditions. I'd also like clear standard on labeling products made with additional consideration for animal welfare (current labels like "humane" and "free range" are pretty worthless in this respect). Then there's just education. I think awareness of how terrible many practices are does translate into a shift in demand. I also really like half measures like people who decide to only eat meat for dinner or only eat meat three meals a week. The U.S. consumes an absurd amount of meat, people should eat less meat even if they aren't willing to give it up.


Never. I would rather die young from obesity and cancer from eating meat than give it up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Serious

IDK, I think people dont realize how much meat they eat. Try going meatless for a week, it'll give you some perspective.