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Stop Using Real Names on the Forum

Raisor
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1/24/2016 4:51:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Can we all agree to stop using the real names of other people when posting in the forum?

People mostly use the real name of another user as a way of talking down to them or making the argument more personal. Or, to quote thett, "[referring] to him by his real first name...in DDO vernacular is the equivalent of taking off your shirt and screaming "come at me bro!"

Presumably if people wanted to be called by their actual name they would have made their username their actual name. Almost no one puts their actual name in their profile, most people know each other's names only through private messages or off-site activity like G+. Information revealed in private channels quickly become public knowledge when users start sing real names in the forums. There is a presumption of privacy in the forums, most people expect to be received as their online persona.

All of this means we should not refer to each other by our real names, at least in the public space of the forums.

I'm sure there are some people who aren't bothered by any of this, but to respect the people who don't want to be called out by name there should be a strong community norm against using the actual names of other users.

I think using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a "d*ck move." Calling someone by name in an argument should be viewed as crossing the line and not acceptable behavior. We should all collectively agree not to use real names, and should view those who do as second rate citizens, the scum of DDO deserving only scorn and mockery, irrelevant users barred from mafia and hangouts, much as Rudolph was barred from any reindeer games for his own horrible deformity.
TBR
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1/24/2016 5:25:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 4:51:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Can we all agree to stop using the real names of other people when posting in the forum?

People mostly use the real name of another user as a way of talking down to them or making the argument more personal. Or, to quote thett, "[referring] to him by his real first name...in DDO vernacular is the equivalent of taking off your shirt and screaming "come at me bro!"

Presumably if people wanted to be called by their actual name they would have made their username their actual name. Almost no one puts their actual name in their profile, most people know each other's names only through private messages or off-site activity like G+. Information revealed in private channels quickly become public knowledge when users start sing real names in the forums. There is a presumption of privacy in the forums, most people expect to be received as their online persona.

All of this means we should not refer to each other by our real names, at least in the public space of the forums.

I'm sure there are some people who aren't bothered by any of this, but to respect the people who don't want to be called out by name there should be a strong community norm against using the actual names of other users.

I think using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a "d*ck move." Calling someone by name in an argument should be viewed as crossing the line and not acceptable behavior. We should all collectively agree not to use real names, and should view those who do as second rate citizens, the scum of DDO deserving only scorn and mockery, irrelevant users barred from mafia and hangouts, much as Rudolph was barred from any reindeer games for his own horrible deformity.

I think you are right. Don't see it too much, but where it happens, it should be discouraged.
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.
Raisor
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1/24/2016 6:01:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.

I acknowledge in OP that there isn't a universal disposition in either direction, I take your point but I don't assert a universal preference.

I do argue that there is a presumption of privacy.

Its impossible to track individual preference on using vs not using real names. To protect the presumption of privacy it should be a norm not to use first names. If there are exceptions the norm falls apart, if I see someone be referred to by their first name I'l just assume the user is ok with it.

If 1harder or esocial want people to use their names they should make their username their actual name.

Also I'm only talking about the forums. If you want to use names in PM, when posting on profiles, or in ghangouts that's fine. My issue is just in public discussion.
Raisor
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1/24/2016 6:02:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 5:25:40 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/24/2016 4:51:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Can we all agree to stop using the real names of other people when posting in the forum?

People mostly use the real name of another user as a way of talking down to them or making the argument more personal. Or, to quote thett, "[referring] to him by his real first name...in DDO vernacular is the equivalent of taking off your shirt and screaming "come at me bro!"

Presumably if people wanted to be called by their actual name they would have made their username their actual name. Almost no one puts their actual name in their profile, most people know each other's names only through private messages or off-site activity like G+. Information revealed in private channels quickly become public knowledge when users start sing real names in the forums. There is a presumption of privacy in the forums, most people expect to be received as their online persona.

All of this means we should not refer to each other by our real names, at least in the public space of the forums.

I'm sure there are some people who aren't bothered by any of this, but to respect the people who don't want to be called out by name there should be a strong community norm against using the actual names of other users.

I think using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a "d*ck move." Calling someone by name in an argument should be viewed as crossing the line and not acceptable behavior. We should all collectively agree not to use real names, and should view those who do as second rate citizens, the scum of DDO deserving only scorn and mockery, irrelevant users barred from mafia and hangouts, much as Rudolph was barred from any reindeer games for his own horrible deformity.

I think you are right. Don't see it too much, but where it happens, it should be discouraged.

I'd say I see it pretty often. At least a few times a week.
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/24/2016 6:26:08 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 6:01:53 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.

I acknowledge in OP that there isn't a universal disposition in either direction, I take your point but I don't assert a universal preference.

"I don't assert a universal preference."
"using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a d*ck move...[we should view those who use real names] as second-rate citizens, the scum of DDO..."

I do argue that there is a presumption of privacy.

Its impossible to track individual preference on using vs not using real names. To protect the presumption of privacy it should be a norm not to use first names. If there are exceptions the norm falls apart, if I see someone be referred to by their first name I'l just assume the user is ok with it.

So, as you said, there are exceptions. The norm fell apart. I would never use the name of a user if I didn't know they were okay with it (a la Zaradi and Thett), but I do with Annie and Chris.

If 1harder or esocial want people to use their names they should make their username their actual name.

Or you could see that you're disrespecting their wishes in the same way you accuse others of doing.

Also I'm only talking about the forums. If you want to use names in PM, when posting on profiles, or in ghangouts that's fine. My issue is just in public discussion.
TBR
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1/24/2016 6:35:15 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 6:19:53 PM, YYW wrote:
#ragemode

I am guessing there was some incident I am unaware of.

While I could care less generally, there are a lot of younger members who really should not attach their names to this content. Any, all members deserve privacy if they ask.
1harderthanyouthink
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1/24/2016 7:03:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 6:01:53 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.

I acknowledge in OP that there isn't a universal disposition in either direction, I take your point but I don't assert a universal preference.

I do argue that there is a presumption of privacy.

Its impossible to track individual preference on using vs not using real names. To protect the presumption of privacy it should be a norm not to use first names. If there are exceptions the norm falls apart, if I see someone be referred to by their first name I'l just assume the user is ok with it.

If 1harder or esocial want people to use their names they should make their username their actual name.

No.

Also I'm only talking about the forums. If you want to use names in PM, when posting on profiles, or in ghangouts that's fine. My issue is just in public discussion.
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Forever23
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1/24/2016 7:07:37 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I personally dont mind being called by my IRL name and Im sure many others dont either. It helps make a more personal connection. But I get what you are saying.
Forever23
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1/24/2016 7:14:16 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:13:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Luckily no one hashould refered to me as John Cena yet. I'd like to keep that a secret.

Okay john lol. Is that actually your name?
Forever23
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1/24/2016 7:15:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:13:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Luckily no one hashould refered to me as John Cena yet. I'd like to keep that a secret.

John Cena is not your full name but is John your first name?
UtherPenguin
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1/24/2016 7:21:34 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:15:17 PM, Forever23 wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:13:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Luckily no one hashould refered to me as John Cena yet. I'd like to keep that a secret.

John Cena is not your full name but is John your first name?

It's a secret
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daytonanerd
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1/24/2016 7:25:54 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.

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Raisor
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1/24/2016 7:32:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 6:35:15 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/24/2016 6:19:53 PM, YYW wrote:
#ragemode

I am guessing there was some incident I am unaware of.

While I could care less generally, there are a lot of younger members who really should not attach their names to this content. Any, all members deserve privacy if they ask.

Nah no incident. This is a post I've been thinking about making for a while.

Part of my concern is that there might be people whose names are used in the forums despite their wishes but they feel there's nothing they can do about it. I feel like our norms are drifting in the wrong direction.
donald.keller
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1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.
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imabench
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1/24/2016 7:48:28 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I definitely dont like having people knowing that my last name is bench even though my username is 'IMABENCH'
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1harderthanyouthink
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1/24/2016 7:49:23 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:48:28 PM, imabench wrote:
I definitely dont like having people knowing that my last name is bench even though my username is 'IMABENCH'

You did also post your mailing address once.
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Rosalie
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1/24/2016 7:51:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 4:51:31 PM, Raisor wrote:
Can we all agree to stop using the real names of other people when posting in the forum?

People mostly use the real name of another user as a way of talking down to them or making the argument more personal. Or, to quote thett, "[referring] to him by his real first name...in DDO vernacular is the equivalent of taking off your shirt and screaming "come at me bro!"

Presumably if people wanted to be called by their actual name they would have made their username their actual name. Almost no one puts their actual name in their profile, most people know each other's names only through private messages or off-site activity like G+. Information revealed in private channels quickly become public knowledge when users start sing real names in the forums. There is a presumption of privacy in the forums, most people expect to be received as their online persona.

All of this means we should not refer to each other by our real names, at least in the public space of the forums.

I'm sure there are some people who aren't bothered by any of this, but to respect the people who don't want to be called out by name there should be a strong community norm against using the actual names of other users.

I think using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a "d*ck move." Calling someone by name in an argument should be viewed as crossing the line and not acceptable behavior. We should all collectively agree not to use real names, and should view those who do as second rate citizens, the scum of DDO deserving only scorn and mockery, irrelevant users barred from mafia and hangouts, much as Rudolph was barred from any reindeer games for his own horrible deformity.

Bob..... :/
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The-Voice-of-Truth
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1/24/2016 7:53:46 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:48:28 PM, imabench wrote:
I definitely dont like having people knowing that my last name is bench even though my username is 'IMABENCH'

I bet I could find out your first name in a couple of minutes.
Suh dude

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bballcrook21
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1/24/2016 8:14:19 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:15:17 PM, Forever23 wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:13:02 PM, UtherPenguin wrote:
Luckily no one hashould refered to me as John Cena yet. I'd like to keep that a secret.

John Cena is not your full name but is John your first name?

I won't tell you his real name just because he hasn't given me permission to, and I'm not planning for asking, but I will tell you that it's not John. It is definitely not John, or any of the common Western names.
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lannan13
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1/24/2016 8:18:35 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:48:28 PM, imabench wrote:
I definitely dont like having people knowing that my last name is bench even though my username is 'IMABENCH'

Same, my username is Lannan13.
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EndarkenedRationalist
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1/24/2016 8:34:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

*looks at your username deliberately*
I thought we were friends, Donald. I was test reading your story and everything.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

Except Raisor's opinion is we should never do it, ever.

So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.
TBR
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1/24/2016 8:50:01 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 8:34:53 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

*looks at your username deliberately*
I thought we were friends, Donald. I was test reading your story and everything.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

Except Raisor's opinion is we should never do it, ever.

So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.

Jumping in, and possibly in the wrong area (on phone). Do you think that having private information about a user means it is ok to out that information?

Look, I have put out private information before, have no issue with it. That is on my terms, not anothers
donald.keller
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1/24/2016 8:52:36 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 8:34:53 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

*looks at your username deliberately*
I thought we were friends, Donald. I was test reading your story and everything.

I wanted the username Vicksan, or Abrum. Or maybe Lordhelm (my Historum username). I might let people, like you and Bsh, know my name, but I wouldn't want you telling people.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

Except Raisor's opinion is we should never do it, ever.

He said in the OP that there are times when it's not bad.


So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.
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Raisor
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1/24/2016 8:53:22 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 6:26:08 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/24/2016 6:01:53 PM, Raisor wrote:
At 1/24/2016 5:44:57 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
Except, of course, how you also use people's real names to show respect and make a more personal connection with them, especially when you have users like Annie and Chris who actively tell you to use their real names. So...your universalism is no longer universal.

Get rekt, Harold.

I acknowledge in OP that there isn't a universal disposition in either direction, I take your point but I don't assert a universal preference.

"I don't assert a universal preference."
"using the first name of another user, in any context, should be viewed as a d*ck move...[we should view those who use real names] as second-rate citizens, the scum of DDO..."

Ya dude nothing in the quoted asserts a universal preference.

The quoted says how we should treat an action, and I argue we should treat it the same without respect to preference of the user involved.


I do argue that there is a presumption of privacy.

Its impossible to track individual preference on using vs not using real names. To protect the presumption of privacy it should be a norm not to use first names. If there are exceptions the norm falls apart, if I see someone be referred to by their first name I'l just assume the user is ok with it.

So, as you said, there are exceptions. The norm fell apart. I would never use the name of a user if I didn't know they were okay with it (a la Zaradi and Thett), but I do with Annie and Chris.


Yes, the norm is falling apart...because there are exceptions. This is why I'm arguing there shouldn't be exceptions.

If 1harder or esocial want people to use their names they should make their username their actual name.

Or you could see that you're disrespecting their wishes in the same way you accuse others of doing.

If their wishes contribute to a bad norm of behavior, their wishes should be ignored.

If I made it clear that I preferred the people refer to me as a profane racial slur, it would be fine to ignore that wish.

I just don't understand, if users want to go by their first name thats great, make it their username. Why have a username if you don't want to go by it? You username is your name in the forum. You literally get to decide what name you go by...so if you want to go by your name that is an option.

It would be goofy if I told everyone to start referring to me as "King Pootie Tang" and took it as disrespectful if people called me "raisor" instead of "king pootie tang." How does it make sense for someone to pick a username and then claim it is disrespectful for people to refer to them by that name?


Also I'm only talking about the forums. If you want to use names in PM, when posting on profiles, or in ghangouts that's fine. My issue is just in public discussion.
Raisor
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1/24/2016 8:56:53 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 8:52:36 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 8:34:53 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

*looks at your username deliberately*
I thought we were friends, Donald. I was test reading your story and everything.

I wanted the username Vicksan, or Abrum. Or maybe Lordhelm (my Historum username). I might let people, like you and Bsh, know my name, but I wouldn't want you telling people.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

Except Raisor's opinion is we should never do it, ever.

He said in the OP that there are times when it's not bad.


I'm against using it at all on the forums.

I think its fine where there are privacy controls at the user-level, like in PM or posting messages on profiles.

What I don't like about using names is that it lets other people post personal information without the target's consent.


So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.
EndarkenedRationalist
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1/24/2016 8:57:09 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/24/2016 8:50:01 PM, TBR wrote:
At 1/24/2016 8:34:53 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:47:38 PM, donald.keller wrote:
At 1/24/2016 7:29:41 PM, Raisor wrote:
Huh guess I'm really in the wrong side of popular opinion.

Always interesting to see what people think.

Nah. I agree with you. And referring to someone by their name as a sign of friendship presumes it's okay to violate privacy if it's to be friendly. If i could, no one here would know my name, and i wouldn't want them revealing it so they could make the conversation friendlier.

*looks at your username deliberately*
I thought we were friends, Donald. I was test reading your story and everything.

Just because 1harder doesn't mind doesn't disprove your opinion. It just mean some people are okay with it, not that we should presume all people all okay with it. So we should stick with your rule with everyone who hasn't said otherwise.

Except Raisor's opinion is we should never do it, ever.

So don't refer to someones name until they said you can. And NEVER do it to insult to speak down to someone.

Jumping in, and possibly in the wrong area (on phone). Do you think that having private information about a user means it is ok to out that information?

If you're the only one? No. If you asked not to? No.

Look, I have put out private information before, have no issue with it. That is on my terms, not anothers