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YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

2. The solutions to the lack of votes, and the lack of good votes, are one in the same: to teach people to vote well. The problem is that I know of about maybe two or three people on the site who could do that. (I am one of them. I apologize for the pretentiousness of how that sounds.)

3. Voting correctly matters more than anything else; by "correct" I mean, "getting it right." There are some who labor under the mistaken view that debates cannot be objectively called. This is mistaken. Arguments' relative strength can certainly be assessed; the problem is that so many people don't know how to do that, in large part, because they don't understand how writing arguments works. This, too, can be remedied with education.

And that's it. It's not more complicated than that. Easy peasy.
Tsar of DDO
lannan13
Posts: 23,050
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1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Do not read my or whiteflame's RFD.

Do not read my voting guide, yet.
Tsar of DDO
tejretics
Posts: 6,086
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1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.
Tsar of DDO
tejretics
Posts: 6,086
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1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 5:44:52 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.

The one he did with you, lol
Tsar of DDO
tejretics
Posts: 6,086
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1/26/2016 5:50:59 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:44:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.

The one he did with you, lol

That's not on guns...it's about the death penalty..
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 5:53:27 AM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:50:59 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.

The one he did with you, lol

That's not on guns...it's about the death penalty..

That would be a great example debate too... but harder to judge.
Tsar of DDO
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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1/26/2016 1:04:26 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 5:50:59 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.

The one he did with you, lol

That's not on guns...it's about the death penalty..

I think he meant this one
http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 1:08:52 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 1:04:26 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:50:59 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:52 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:44:31 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:43:40 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:23:51 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:04 AM, YYW wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:57:06 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Much has been said recently on this subject. I will say now, once more, what I have said before:

1. Anyone can learn to be a good judge, and I am happy to teach you if you're interested. But it takes time, so know what you're getting into.

Me, me, me, pick me.

Like I said in response to your profile comment:

Read Hayd's gun debate (whether guns should be banned), and then tell me who you think won, and why.

Hayd has many such debates.

Ah.... fair. Well, the last one then. I use that only because it's a good example, and it is one I have already read.

Whiteflame didn't vote on that.

The one he did with you, lol

That's not on guns...it's about the death penalty..

I think he meant this one
http://www.debate.org...

Yup
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 1:32:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 1:30:04 PM, EndarkenedRationalist wrote:
At 1/26/2016 5:00:19 AM, YYW wrote:
Tell me via PM who you think won and why.

Some debates deserve to be a tie.
http://www.debate.org...

lol
Tsar of DDO
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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1/26/2016 9:44:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
3. Voting correctly matters more than anything else; by "correct" I mean, "getting it right." There are some who labor under the mistaken view that debates cannot be objectively called. This is mistaken. Arguments' relative strength can certainly be assessed.

It depends on the debate. A lot of debates are open and shut cases where no reasonable person would vote for a certain side. There are quite a few handful of debates though where both sides argue very well and the winner essentially comes down to the judges interpretation of the arguments and what they decided to weigh higher or lower. Not every judge is going to weigh the relative impacts of the arguments presented in the same way. To some extent, you can tell who won specific arguments but ultimately, when deciding which arguments are stronger, if they are very close, different judges will use different metrics. Perhaps in some debates (philosophy, LD type debates especially), I could see a logically "correct" answer but it isn't universal and it is much more ambiguous for policy debates or ones involving practical issues.
YYW
Posts: 36,282
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1/26/2016 10:15:14 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/26/2016 9:44:29 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 1/26/2016 4:47:40 AM, YYW wrote:
3. Voting correctly matters more than anything else; by "correct" I mean, "getting it right." There are some who labor under the mistaken view that debates cannot be objectively called. This is mistaken. Arguments' relative strength can certainly be assessed.

It depends on the debate. A lot of debates are open and shut cases where no reasonable person would vote for a certain side. There are quite a few handful of debates though where both sides argue very well and the winner essentially comes down to the judges interpretation of the arguments and what they decided to weigh higher or lower. Not every judge is going to weigh the relative impacts of the arguments presented in the same way. To some extent, you can tell who won specific arguments but ultimately, when deciding which arguments are stronger, if they are very close, different judges will use different metrics. Perhaps in some debates (philosophy, LD type debates especially), I could see a logically "correct" answer but it isn't universal and it is much more ambiguous for policy debates or ones involving practical issues.

I used to be of that school of thought, too. But, really, the better a reader I become, the more skeptical I become of that perspective.
Tsar of DDO