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People who have to make debates personal

Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types, so they understand the importance of having an exchange of thoughts over an exchange of feelings/emotions. Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?" It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst. I have been called arrogant or a d!ck before because while someone else wants to turn a debate in to a theatrical experience and be emotional, I just seem cool and detached, but I think a lot of people that aren't ENTP or debate oriented don't realize that I am actually affording the other person the courtesy of listening to their argument, they don't afford me that when they get in their feelings and care more about whining than the ideas being presented. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or problem?
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

Didn't actually read the rest of the OP, but I will in a sec.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:25:29 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

A lot=/=vast majority, but without knowing this it would be logical to assume that people on a debate site are ENTP personality types, although I didn't know about the test.

Didn't actually read the rest of the OP, but I will in a sec.
Zaradi
Posts: 14,124
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1/27/2016 5:29:33 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:25:29 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

A lot=/=vast majority, but without knowing this it would be logical to assume that people on a debate site are ENTP personality types, although I didn't know about the test.

I'm aware that a lot =/= vast majority. But to put it into perspective, we'd get like 50 or so people who took it and ~40 or so would be either INTP or INTJ with the remaining scattered among the rest.

Didn't actually read the rest of the OP, but I will in a sec.
Want to debate? Pick a topic and hit me up! - http://www.debate.org...
YYW
Posts: 36,249
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1/27/2016 5:32:51 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

This is correct, and my almost five years on this site inform me that this is the case.
Tsar of DDO
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:33:06 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:29:33 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:25:29 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

A lot=/=vast majority, but without knowing this it would be logical to assume that people on a debate site are ENTP personality types, although I didn't know about the test.

I actually didn't know that, thanks for bringing that to my attention, but even so this could apply to anyone who values an exchange of ideas in debate whether than making it some theatrical, emotional b!tch session, or making the debate personal. I rarely see it happen in here, more in person. I also concede that if you actually have a legitimate personal experience that relates to the issue at hand it can be worth bringing it up, but it shouldn't be gospel as most people who bring it up believe it should be. "Well your statistic isn't true because such and such happened to me one time!"

I'm aware that a lot =/= vast majority. But to put it into perspective, we'd get like 50 or so people who took it and ~40 or so would be either INTP or INTJ with the remaining scattered among the rest.

Didn't actually read the rest of the OP, but I will in a sec.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,817
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1/27/2016 5:33:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types, so they understand the importance of having an exchange of thoughts over an exchange of feelings/emotions. Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?" It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst. I have been called arrogant or a d!ck before because while someone else wants to turn a debate in to a theatrical experience and be emotional, I just seem cool and detached, but I think a lot of people that aren't ENTP or debate oriented don't realize that I am actually affording the other person the courtesy of listening to their argument, they don't afford me that when they get in their feelings and care more about whining than the ideas being presented. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or problem?

Yeah, I agree with Zaradi. Most of the people on this site are introverted thinkers who don't really like "people".
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
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"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
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Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:35:50 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:33:50 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types, so they understand the importance of having an exchange of thoughts over an exchange of feelings/emotions. Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?" It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst. I have been called arrogant or a d!ck before because while someone else wants to turn a debate in to a theatrical experience and be emotional, I just seem cool and detached, but I think a lot of people that aren't ENTP or debate oriented don't realize that I am actually affording the other person the courtesy of listening to their argument, they don't afford me that when they get in their feelings and care more about whining than the ideas being presented. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or problem?

Yeah, I agree with Zaradi. Most of the people on this site are introverted thinkers who don't really like "people".

OK.. I already said I stand corrected on that lol, but that still doesn't invalidate my original complaint about people making debates an emotional experience.
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:37:59 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:33:06 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:29:33 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:25:29 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:23:12 PM, Zaradi wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types,

Wrong on this first part. What's almost become a traditional annual personality test that we compile for the site routinely shows that the vast majority of active members are INTJ or INTP.

A lot=/=vast majority, but without knowing this it would be logical to assume that people on a debate site are ENTP personality types, although I didn't know about the test.

I actually didn't know that, thanks for bringing that to my attention, but even so this could apply to anyone who values an exchange of ideas in debate whether than making it some theatrical, emotional b!tch session, or making the debate personal. I rarely see it happen in here, more in person. I also concede that if you actually have a legitimate personal experience that relates to the issue at hand it can be worth bringing it up, but it shouldn't be gospel as most people who bring it up believe it should be. "Well your statistic isn't true because such and such happened to me one time!"

Actually our exchange was a perfect example of how a rational person ought to respond to arguments. I believed that most people on a debate site would be ENTP because of my personal experience and it just would make sense, you gave me a statistic that ran counter to that idea, I stood corrected and accepted the fact that your statistic held more weight.

I'm aware that a lot =/= vast majority. But to put it into perspective, we'd get like 50 or so people who took it and ~40 or so would be either INTP or INTJ with the remaining scattered among the rest.

Didn't actually read the rest of the OP, but I will in a sec.
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,817
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1/27/2016 5:38:17 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:35:50 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:33:50 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types, so they understand the importance of having an exchange of thoughts over an exchange of feelings/emotions. Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?" It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst. I have been called arrogant or a d!ck before because while someone else wants to turn a debate in to a theatrical experience and be emotional, I just seem cool and detached, but I think a lot of people that aren't ENTP or debate oriented don't realize that I am actually affording the other person the courtesy of listening to their argument, they don't afford me that when they get in their feelings and care more about whining than the ideas being presented. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or problem?

Yeah, I agree with Zaradi. Most of the people on this site are introverted thinkers who don't really like "people".

OK.. I already said I stand corrected on that lol, but that still doesn't invalidate my original complaint about people making debates an emotional experience.

Let's actually reference what Larz said about DDO: "I'd say DDO is a magnet for sociopathic unstable people, since it draws in anyone with an opinion, as opposed to serious formal debaters specifically." http://www.edeb8.com...
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:40:58 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:38:17 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:35:50 PM, Objectivity wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:33:50 PM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
I have a feeling that a lot of people on this site are ENTP personality types, so they understand the importance of having an exchange of thoughts over an exchange of feelings/emotions. Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?" It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst. I have been called arrogant or a d!ck before because while someone else wants to turn a debate in to a theatrical experience and be emotional, I just seem cool and detached, but I think a lot of people that aren't ENTP or debate oriented don't realize that I am actually affording the other person the courtesy of listening to their argument, they don't afford me that when they get in their feelings and care more about whining than the ideas being presented. Does anyone else have this pet peeve or problem?

Yeah, I agree with Zaradi. Most of the people on this site are introverted thinkers who don't really like "people".

OK.. I already said I stand corrected on that lol, but that still doesn't invalidate my original complaint about people making debates an emotional experience.

Let's actually reference what Larz said about DDO: "I'd say DDO is a magnet for sociopathic unstable people, since it draws in anyone with an opinion, as opposed to serious formal debaters specifically." http://www.edeb8.com...

I would say that varies, I have seen people here who want to have serious discussions about important issues, I have seen people who don't care about honest, meaningful exchanges of ideas and just care about affirming that their opinion is "right". I take issue with the latter group of people.
YYW
Posts: 36,249
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1/27/2016 5:41:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?"

There is always going to be some level of interpersonal disconnect in online interactions; this has both benefits and detriments. That said, the way that people interpret the meaning, tone, etc. of whatever you write is going to be based on how they perceive you.

For example, if people have a positive view of you, they are less likely to interpret a rebuttal to their argument as "personal." Alternatively, if people have a negative view of you, they are more likely to interpret a rebuttal to their argument as personal.

Other factors that influence how people perceive posts include, but are not limited to: (1) their own psychological problems (e.g. paranoia, inferiority complexes, etc.); (2) contextual factors that pertain specifically to you (e.g. are you making them look stupid?); and (3) broader contextual factors (e.g. how others respond to both their and your posts).

This is irritating, especially, because there are some (actually, only two I can think of) members on DDO who believe that talking about, for example, a group to which an individual person belongs, constitutes a personal attack on the person who is the member of the group. Such beliefs are obviously predicated upon nothing more than some combination of: (1) irrationality; (2) hyper-sensitivity; and/or (3) paranoid and/or delusional ideations.

One member actually accused me of using "subliminal messaging" to attack her. It's the most troublingly absurd thing I've ever heard on the site. Like, what am I, the Illuminati?

Alas, the point is that different people are going to perceive different things form the same words. This is because we all bring our own backgrounds to the texts we read, and those backgrounds define how we interpret the meaning of words in front of us.

Keep that in mind, in the future.

It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst.

I agree that the quality of interactions on DDO deteriorates to the extent that irrational members perceive, for example, rebuttals to their arguments as personal attacks. It's very distasteful, but this is the reality of interacting with unbalanced people.
Tsar of DDO
Objectivity
Posts: 1,073
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1/27/2016 5:50:31 PM
Posted: 10 months ago
At 1/27/2016 5:41:31 PM, YYW wrote:
At 1/27/2016 5:07:40 PM, Objectivity wrote:
Does anyone else get frustrated when someone has to make your views on a particular situation personal "Well you must hate so and so if you agree with this, or this and this happened to someone I know, do you think they should suffer?"

There is always going to be some level of interpersonal disconnect in online interactions; this has both benefits and detriments. That said, the way that people interpret the meaning, tone, etc. of whatever you write is going to be based on how they perceive you.

For example, if people have a positive view of you, they are less likely to interpret a rebuttal to their argument as "personal." Alternatively, if people have a negative view of you, they are more likely to interpret a rebuttal to their argument as personal.

Fair enough, I agree with this, but I have seen very close friends and family members that I discuss issues with react to an argument I make personally too, although I would say this is a factor.

Other factors that influence how people perceive posts include, but are not limited to: (1) their own psychological problems (e.g. paranoia, inferiority complexes, etc.); (2) contextual factors that pertain specifically to you (e.g. are you making them look stupid?); and (3) broader contextual factors (e.g. how others respond to both their and your posts).

I agree with this, although this more had to do with exchanges in person. I would say another factor is arrogance or people who are insular and believe that their personal experiences are more important than looking at issues on a macro level and how they impact everyone, whether than just them or one identity group. Another is simply people who aren't educated on the issue so all they can bring to the table is personal experience or emotions.

This is irritating, especially, because there are some (actually, only two I can think of) members on DDO who believe that talking about, for example, a group to which an individual person belongs, constitutes a personal attack on the person who is the member of the group. Such beliefs are obviously predicated upon nothing more than some combination of: (1) irrationality; (2) hyper-sensitivity; and/or (3) paranoid and/or delusional ideations.

Agreed, it's not only a cheap way to debate but its a reflection on that individuals narrow mindedness and bankrupt personality.

One member actually accused me of using "subliminal messaging" to attack her. It's the most troublingly absurd thing I've ever heard on the site. Like, what am I, the Illuminati?

lol, I think I know who you're talking about and I would agree that you should just refrain from debating if you have to tie everything someone says back to you, it's almost a form of narcissism.

Alas, the point is that different people are going to perceive different things form the same words. This is because we all bring our own backgrounds to the texts we read, and those backgrounds define how we interpret the meaning of words in front of us.

Keep that in mind, in the future.

Agreed, although I think that in some debates, especially about hot button issues, there is a value to being detached so that you can actually listen to the person's logic and arguments whether than making it personal and framing the debate through how it will affect you or those around you.

It cheapens the debate and happens a lot to me, and it is sophistry at its worst.

I agree that the quality of interactions on DDO deteriorates to the extent that irrational members perceive, for example, rebuttals to their arguments as personal attacks. It's very distasteful, but this is the reality of interacting with unbalanced people.

Agreed