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Board of Debate Approval (BDA)

studentathletechristian8
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11/6/2010 9:29:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am pleased to inform the members of this debate community that I have established a new organization known as the Board of Debate Approval, or the BDA.

The main purpose of my organization is to oversee the debates in the Challenge Period and ensure that they are worthy of acceptance and refutation from other members of this site.

Simply, I plan to decide whether newly instigated debates are either silly and juvenile or intellectually valuable for the site's consideration.

I have criteria in which I determine if a debate is either "good" or "bad." If the debate is credited as "good," I will neither interfere nor restrain other members from accepting it. However, if I credit the debate as "bad," I will accept the debate and hold out for a first round forfeit. This would essentially erase the debate and keep the debate pages "clean."

Now, many of you may think that this power is too grand. However, I must explain myself a little more. In this organization, a relatively brief report shall be written up that requests other members of the BDA to look at a specified debate to determine whether or not it should be "revoked." After the decision is made, I will personally draft my reasoning as to why or why not the organization felt the need to keep/remove the debate.

It will be quite professionally handled. Also, I will make sure to be fairly generous in my ruling. I will take the time (including the opinions of the members) to determine the validity of debates. I may even PM the instigator of the debate at question to find out his/her intentions of the debate.

I encourage anyone to PM me for more details about my organization. If you would like to become a member or office holder of the BDA, please do so either in the thread or in a PM, and we can get started.

Thank you.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/6/2010 9:34:26 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I am firmly against this board and will do as much as I care to in order to oppose it.

However, I don't believe I care to do very much.

As such, I will just verbally announce that I am firmly against it and leave it at that.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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11/6/2010 9:34:55 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:34:26 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I am firmly against this board and will do as much as I care to in order to oppose it.

However, I don't believe I care to do very much.

As such, I will just verbally announce that I am firmly against it and leave it at that.

I figured you would.

Your input is appreciated.
Maikuru
Posts: 9,112
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11/6/2010 9:37:14 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I may be mistaken but didn't Phil give a name to the process of repeatedly accepting and forfeiting debates (I believe it was "squatting") and threaten repercussions to those who practiced it?
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Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/6/2010 9:38:17 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:29:12 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
I am pleased to inform the members of this debate community that I have established a new organization known as the Board of Debate Approval, or the BDA.

The main purpose of my organization is to oversee the debates in the Challenge Period and ensure that they are worthy of acceptance and refutation from other members of this site.

Simply, I plan to decide whether newly instigated debates are either silly and juvenile or intellectually valuable for the site's consideration.

I have criteria in which I determine if a debate is either "good" or "bad." If the debate is credited as "good," I will neither interfere nor restrain other members from accepting it. However, if I credit the debate as "bad," I will accept the debate and hold out for a first round forfeit. This would essentially erase the debate and keep the debate pages "clean."

Now, many of you may think that this power is too grand. However, I must explain myself a little more. In this organization, a relatively brief report shall be written up that requests other members of the BDA to look at a specified debate to determine whether or not it should be "revoked." After the decision is made, I will personally draft my reasoning as to why or why not the organization felt the need to keep/remove the debate.

It will be quite professionally handled. Also, I will make sure to be fairly generous in my ruling. I will take the time (including the opinions of the members) to determine the validity of debates. I may even PM the instigator of the debate at question to find out his/her intentions of the debate.

I encourage anyone to PM me for more details about my organization. If you would like to become a member or office holder of the BDA, please do so either in the thread or in a PM, and we can get started.

Thank you.

1. Do you suppose that your self-appointedness presents any issues?

2. What are your criteria?

3. If you're taking all of this time and effort to check up on debates, how exactly can you prevent other trolls, spammers, or even serious members from taking (and participating in) such debates?
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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11/6/2010 9:39:15 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:37:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I may be mistaken but didn't Phil give a name to the process of repeatedly accepting and forfeiting debates (I believe it was "squatting") and threaten repercussions to those who practiced it?

I believe this was directed more to people who wanted to ruin debates with selfish and poorly-rooted motives.

Of course, I would send a PM to Phil and ask for his ruling - this is his website.

I do admit that I would leave most debates as they are - all I really want to do is improve the quality of debates in general on this website.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/6/2010 9:40:12 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm almost entirely sure that you haven't thought this out very thoroughly, and that you don't understand the practicality issues that such a "board" (and more pressingly, your threat to accept and force a forfeit) would do.

Why don't you start by listing your reasons for doing this and why you think this would be a good idea, what outcomes you expect, and address some preliminary issues that others might have with it?
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Cody_Franklin
Posts: 9,483
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11/6/2010 9:43:32 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:39:15 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 9:37:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I may be mistaken but didn't Phil give a name to the process of repeatedly accepting and forfeiting debates (I believe it was "squatting") and threaten repercussions to those who practiced it?

I believe this was directed more to people who wanted to ruin debates with selfish and poorly-rooted motives.

So no "good" debater has a selfish motive for starting a debate? Yeah, alright.
studentathletechristian8
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11/6/2010 9:48:00 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:38:17 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:

1. Do you suppose that your self-appointedness presents any issues?

Honestly, I do not. I believe that, as the creator of this non-profit organization, I am able to look at various debates both rationally and without bias. It is my duty to seriously take the time to determine a debate's validity. Plus, there will be other members of the BDA that shall be included in the conversation. Heck, I may even get the public community involved if something really becomes controversial, but I do not believe that to be necessary.

2. What are your criteria?

Well, we shall look at various factors. First, we will obviously look at the debate itself. We will look at the person who created the debate and view his / her track record on this website. We will view any comments posted on the debate from other members. We will ask the Instigator several questions in a PM if we deem it necessary. There are other factors involved as well, but I don't believe I need to really expand on them. As a whole, we shall look at different aspects of the debate (and its creator), the meaning of the debate, and its general entirety.

3. If you're taking all of this time and effort to check up on debates, how exactly can you prevent other trolls, spammers, or even serious members from taking (and participating in) such debates?

Good question. I will make sure that our operations run effectually, smoothly, and relatively quickly. I will PM Phil if anything major occurs, but I believe that I will be able to prevent unwanted trolls, spammers, etc. from accepting many pointless and rather foolish debates.

Now, don't get me wrong - there are debates (of a "lower" level) that, although they are juvenile and ridiculous in themselves, will not be interfered with. These are the debates that may allow a funny yet inventive discourse between the instigator and the contender.

Thanks for the input.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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11/6/2010 9:49:53 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:43:32 PM, Cody_Franklin wrote:
At 11/6/2010 9:39:15 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 9:37:14 PM, Maikuru wrote:
I may be mistaken but didn't Phil give a name to the process of repeatedly accepting and forfeiting debates (I believe it was "squatting") and threaten repercussions to those who practiced it?

I believe this was directed more to people who wanted to ruin debates with selfish and poorly-rooted motives.

So no "good" debater has a selfish motive for starting a debate? Yeah, alright.

You're taking this out of context. I'm referring to the trolls who have nothing better to do than delay someone from fully partaking in debates.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/6/2010 9:58:52 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
Alright, I've heard enough.

1. People get to choose debates.

You have just as little information as the next person to go by when you examine a debate challenge. If someone wants to debate that person, they will. If they don't, they won't.

2. Too slow.

Remember the Cleaners? They worked well because their involvement occurred *after* the debate. By the time you get a consensus, someone will have accepted the challenge.

3. Useless.

Your weapon is to squat. What does the squatting do? It turns a useless debate into a useless debate. You don't save anyone any time or trouble. Without you, a debate may actually occur, words may actually be typed, though the debate would be of low quality. With this, the debate would just vanish and nothing would be done at all.

4. Discourages participation.

Let's assume that your board works perfectly. People would need board approval before they can debate. Extra step in the process. More waiting.

Realistically, the board would just decrease the pool of available debates for newbies to participate in. Despite how bad the quality is.

5. Elitism

Debate.org no longer needs elitism. It doesn't need protection. People get bitter enough about senior members as is. No need to dress up in a pretty uniform and parade it around.
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
Kleptin
Posts: 5,095
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11/6/2010 10:02:06 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:00:53 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 9:58:52 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Alright, I've read enough.

Touche XD
: At 5/2/2010 2:43:54 PM, innomen wrote:
It isn't about finding a theory, philosophy or doctrine and thinking it's the answer, but a practical application of one's experiences that is the answer.

: At 10/28/2010 2:40:07 PM, jharry wrote: I have already been given the greatest Gift that anyone could ever hope for [Life], I would consider myself selfish if I expected anything more.
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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11/6/2010 10:07:42 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:02:06 PM, Kleptin wrote:
At 11/6/2010 10:00:53 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 9:58:52 PM, Kleptin wrote:
Alright, I've read enough.

Touche XD

Lulz.

In all seriousness, I do agree with your contentions. However, I generally believe that what I do may improve debating a little more in this community.

It would take a lot for me to even consider actually "squatting" the debate. I do especially understand that noobs need time to develop skills. I was going to focus mostly on debates that really have no point to them and probably will never have a true point at all. Of course, that is subjective, and I had planned on getting better at it as I went along.
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/6/2010 10:18:24 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I was kind of feeling this when you were discussing it earlier, but now that you've formally laid it out I'm against it. The only debates this should get done to are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous, like frenchmoose debates and there's no need to discuss whether those should be "squatted."
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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11/6/2010 10:19:59 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I wish there was a newbie pool or something. Idk how it would work but I know some websites have a place for newbs where they can get the feel of the site, while still being able to see and learn more about it. I'm not sure how it would work out here tho.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
studentathletechristian8
Posts: 5,810
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11/6/2010 10:20:38 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:18:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I was kind of feeling this when you were discussing it earlier, but now that you've formally laid it out I'm against it. The only debates this should get done to are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous, like frenchmoose debates and there's no need to discuss whether those should be "squatted."

These are the debates to which I refer.

Did I not make it clear? I thought I did.

Like I said earlier, I understand the importance of lower-level debates and the like. My main goals are to get rid of spammers and completely idiotic debates from trolls.
lovelife
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11/6/2010 10:24:13 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:20:38 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 10:18:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I was kind of feeling this when you were discussing it earlier, but now that you've formally laid it out I'm against it. The only debates this should get done to are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous, like frenchmoose debates and there's no need to discuss whether those should be "squatted."

These are the debates to which I refer.

Did I not make it clear? I thought I did.

Like I said earlier, I understand the importance of lower-level debates and the like. My main goals are to get rid of spammers and completely idiotic debates from trolls.

Who was that dude that made like 5 accounts and like 80 debates, mostly to attack other members? I forget his name, but in times of need like when that guy shows up, the community knows what to do lol.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
Korashk
Posts: 4,597
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11/6/2010 10:29:31 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:20:38 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 10:18:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I was kind of feeling this when you were discussing it earlier, but now that you've formally laid it out I'm against it. The only debates this should get done to are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous, like frenchmoose debates and there's no need to discuss whether those should be "squatted."

These are the debates to which I refer.

Did I not make it clear? I thought I did.

sac8 wrote:
Simply, I plan to decide whether newly instigated debates are either silly and juvenile or intellectually valuable for the site's consideration.

Very much not clear.
When large numbers of otherwise-law abiding people break specific laws en masse, it's usually a fault that lies with the law. - Unknown
studentathletechristian8
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11/6/2010 10:30:05 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:29:31 PM, Korashk wrote:
At 11/6/2010 10:20:38 PM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
At 11/6/2010 10:18:24 PM, Korashk wrote:
I was kind of feeling this when you were discussing it earlier, but now that you've formally laid it out I'm against it. The only debates this should get done to are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous, like frenchmoose debates and there's no need to discuss whether those should be "squatted."

These are the debates to which I refer.

Did I not make it clear? I thought I did.

sac8 wrote:
Simply, I plan to decide whether newly instigated debates are either silly and juvenile or intellectually valuable for the site's consideration.

Very much not clear.

I meant through other posts in this thread.
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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11/6/2010 10:46:08 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
I'm against this.

How about, rather than squatt, you write reports on their activity and report it to Phil.
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studentathletechristian8
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11/6/2010 10:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 10:46:08 PM, tvellalott wrote:
I'm against this.

How about, rather than squatt, you write reports on their activity and report it to Phil.

Sure.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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11/7/2010 12:32:23 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
You've come up with a method for eliminating "junk" debates that does not involve votebombing those that make them. Your ingenuity deserves credit.

At that point, though, things start to fall apart.

I think this is a bad idea, for these reasons:

1. There is no need to weed out any debates that show up. Weaker debaters will make "foolish" or "pointless" debates; the point is, they ARE making debates. Relevance to real life and wonderful form are pluses, but not essential to learning and having fun in this site. I disagree very strongly with the stated purpose of this board, as being worse than useless, but actually very harmful to the open debating environment we have here.

2. We have a hard enough time attracting and keeping new debaters to this site as it is. I can think of no better way to drive away the kind of free-thinking nonconformists that otherwise stay here than to have some self-appointed board running around saying which debates are "worthy."

3. Last, but not least, you have no business doing this. You are taking this on yourself, and you simply don't have the authority to decide which debate is worthy and which one is trollish. I respect you as a debater; but if you follow through with this I will oppose it every step of the way.

I don't want to be unkind, sac8, but this isn't needed here.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
badger
Posts: 11,793
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11/7/2010 5:07:12 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/6/2010 9:34:26 PM, Kleptin wrote:
I am firmly against this board and will do as much as I care to in order to oppose it.

However, I don't believe I care to do very much.

As such, I will just verbally announce that I am firmly against it and leave it at that.

i like your brain.
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belle
Posts: 4,113
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11/7/2010 8:53:42 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 8:12:39 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
The BDA has already given its seal of approval to two debates. No debates have been revoked thus far.

i'm sure this has already been brought up somewhere but tis a long thread... what if people enjoy doing so called "bad" debates? why do you have the right to stop them? how are they hurting you or anyone else here?
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
studentathletechristian8
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11/7/2010 9:02:34 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 8:53:42 AM, belle wrote:
At 11/7/2010 8:12:39 AM, studentathletechristian8 wrote:
The BDA has already given its seal of approval to two debates. No debates have been revoked thus far.

i'm sure this has already been brought up somewhere but tis a long thread... what if people enjoy doing so called "bad" debates? why do you have the right to stop them? how are they hurting you or anyone else here?

I have already considered this.

I understand that there are some "bad" debates that do serve a purpose on here - humor, break from stress, etc. Many of these debates will remain.

Like I said before, I am quite liberal in my ruling.
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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11/7/2010 9:05:03 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Apathetic Party Official Stance

On: The main purpose of my organization is to oversee the debates in the Challenge Period and ensure that they are worthy of acceptance and refutation from other members of this site.

This is absolutely ridiculous, unnecessary and tyrannical. It also goes against everything the site stands for, which is to be able to debate anything (within the realm of TOS appropriate subjects). Sometimes frivolous or semantics debates are the most amusing of all, if not anti-intellectual. It's absurd to think someone or a group should have this make believe power or take action to prevent others from accepting a silly debate they might actually want to take up, or prevent it from being visible to certain suitors. If a debate is too stupid for you, simply avoid it all-together. If a troll spams the challenge box such as what happened in past instances, report it to Phil and let him make the proper judgment call.
President of DDO
studentathletechristian8
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11/7/2010 9:07:09 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
At 11/7/2010 9:05:03 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Apathetic Party Official Stance

On: The main purpose of my organization is to oversee the debates in the Challenge Period and ensure that they are worthy of acceptance and refutation from other members of this site.

This is absolutely ridiculous, unnecessary and tyrannical. It also goes against everything the site stands for, which is to be able to debate anything (within the realm of TOS appropriate subjects). Sometimes frivolous or semantics debates are the most amusing of all, if not anti-intellectual. It's absurd to think someone or a group should have this make believe power or take action to prevent others from accepting a silly debate they might actually want to take up, or prevent it from being visible to certain suitors. If a debate is too stupid for you, simply avoid it all-together. If a troll spams the challenge box such as what happened in past instances, report it to Phil and let him make the proper judgment call.

The last part you said is essentially what I would focus on.

I understand that debates of all sorts on this site are necessary. The debates I would pick out would be debates of such annoyance and low caliber that the only thing they do is clog up space.
studentathletechristian8
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11/7/2010 9:08:35 AM
Posted: 6 years ago
Lol - by the way, I don't care too much about how any of the parties feel about my organization. Of course, I would like to hear input from any members of any party, but it will take a lot to change my opinion about my own organization. I created this on my own; thus, it belongs to me as of current.