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***Official: Midterm Survey Results***

bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:01:57 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Aloha, DDO!

So, some of you may be aware that our administration recently conducted a survey to get a sense of DDO's pulse on key issues and to assess our job performance. With these surveys, we hope to learn not just what we are doing well, but areas where we can improve, and concerns that DDO users would like addressed. The mid-term is a good place to check in, because we can see where our policies are starting to trend while we still have time to make adjustments. Below are the survey results with some commentary from me. Thank you!

===========

METHODOLOGY

70 people who have been online in the last two weeks and whose accounts were at least 2 weeks old at the time I distributed links were randomly selected from my friendslist, and were given access to the survey. I also collected responses from 17 volunteers from the forums as well, since forum users are among the site's more active members, and I wanted the survey to reflect the opinions of that segment of the population that uses the site most frequently. Though 17 people were selected non-randomly, the survey was mostly random.

The survey ran from 3/4/16-3/12/16, and received a total of 52 responses (35 random, 17 volunteers). This represents the largest number of replies I have ever gotten on one of these surveys. If you estimate that the average active userbase is around 650, and you have a sample size of 50 with a confidence level of 95%, the margin of error (aka the confidence interval) will be around +/- 13.05%. [http://www.surveysystem.com...]

Below, the option with a majority (or plurality) of votes has been italicized. On question 6, all options that were chosen by 60% or more of the respondents have also be italicized. On question 10, the top 4 priorities, as determined by the respondents, will be italicized. On the free response question, no answer will be italicized.

SURVEY RESULTS

1. Do you approve of the current Presidential administration?

Strongly Approve - 17.31%
Approve - 36.54%
Slightly Approve - 11.54%
Neither Approve/Disapprove - 21.15%
Slightly Disapprove - 1.92%
Disapprove - 0.00%
Strongly Disapprove - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 7.69%

Total Approval - 65.39%
Total Disapproval - 5.77%
Total Other - 28.84%

2. Would you support a third term of the current Presidential administration?

Would Definitely Support - 26.92%
Would Likely Support - 19.23%
Would Possibly Support - 15.38%
Would Likely Not Support - 11.54%
Would Definitely Not Support - 9.62%
Unsure/Undecided - 17.31%

Total Likely Support - 46.15%
Total Unlikely Support - 21.16%
Total Other - 32.69%

3. What phrase best describes current moderation?

Far Too Strict - 7.69%
Too Strict - 3.85%
Slightly Too Strict - 13.46%
About Right - 44.23%
Slightly Too Lax - 9.62%
Too Lax - 5.77%
Far Too Lax - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 11.54%

Total Too Strict - 25.00%
Total About Right - 44.23%
Total Too Lax - 19.24%
Total Unsure - 11.54%

4. Do you think DDO's Administration is in touch with the wants and needs of the userbase?

Yes, both the Presidency and Moderation are in touch - 34.62%
Yes, the Presidency is in touch, but not Moderation - 28.85%
Yes, Moderation is in touch, but not the Presidency - 11.54%
No, neither the Presidency nor Moderation are in touch - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 21.15%

Total Presidency in Touch - 63.47%
Total Moderation in Touch - 46.16%
Total Other - 25.00%

5. Have you used or participated in a Presidency-endorsed or -run program in the last 3 months (e.g. New Member Mentorship, Forum Revival, Opt-in Voting Guide, Official Tournaments, etc.)?

Yes, and I had a positive experience - 21.57%
Yes, and I had a neutral experience - 13.73%
Yes, and I had a negative experience - 0.00%
No, I have not - 60.78%
Unsure - 3.92%

6. Which of these programs, initiatives, or items have you heard of? Select all that apply.

The DDO Tournament System - 70.00%
Presidential Updates - 68.00%
The Official Guide to Debating on DDO (The "How-To" Guide) - 66.00%
DDO Presidential Bulletin (debate) - 66.00%

New Member Debate Mentorship Program - 58.00%
The OP of the Month - 56.00%
The Biweekly Topics - 54.00%
DDO Jeopardy! - 52.00%
The Opt-in Voting Guide - 40.00%
None of the above - 12.00%

7. Do you approve of the current tournament system?

Strongly Approve - 14.58%
Approve - 20.83%
Slightly Approve - 4.17%
Neither Approve/Disapprove - 18.75%
Slightly Disapprove - 6.25%
Disapprove - 2.08%
Strongly Disapprove - 2.08%
Unsure/Undecided - 31.25%

Total Approval - 39.58%
Total Disapproval - 10.41%
Total Other - 50.00%

8. Should personal attacks be allowed on the forums?

Yes - 29.17%
No - 60.42%
Unsure/Undecided - 10.42%

9. Which of these areas (1. forum activity, 2. debate quality/quantity, 3. voting quality/quantity, 4. new user outreach/integration, 5. conduct/civility, 6. presidential transparency/communication) have improved, stayed the same, or declined in the last 6 months?

Presidential transparency/communication: +13
New user outreach/integration: +13
Forum activity: +1
Debate quality/quantity: -7
Conduct/civility: -10
Voting quality/quantity: -12

[Methodology: Users replied in a paragraph format. Not all answers were intelligible or responsive. All responsive answers that were intelligible were assigned a +1 (improved), 0 (same), or -1 (declined) in order to calculate a net value for each of the 6 categories. In all, 33 replies factored into this calculation.]

10. Please rank the following in order of importance to you (with 1 being the best):

Debate Quality/Quantity
Voting Quality/Quantity
Forum Activity
Civility, Conduct, and Moderation

Bug Fixes and Site Updates
Coaching and Mentorship for Debaters
New User Outreach
Community Activities
Presidential Transparency and Communication
Updating the Wiki
Reviving the DDO Blog
Other

[Methodology: The above answers were ranked based on their net rankings, from most to least important. SurveyMonkey calculated a weighted average to determine those rankings.]

ANALYSIS

This survey indicates, from what I can see, strong support for both moderation and for our presidential administration. The fact that more people approve of the tournament system than disapprove of it, even after the margin of error, is an excellent step forward. I think the net positive values for the forums, for our administration's outreach, and for new user outreach are also positive signs.

And, of course, while this survey has expressed resounding confidence in many respects, it also highlights areas that need to be worked on, chief among those being debates and voting. I will begin to work on both of those issues as soon as possible. With debates, we will be running a debate of the month program to better highlight debates on the site, and we have added a general coaching program to our roster of site services. Also, once the DCL gets underway, I hope to see an uptick in good debates.

We will also work harder to make users aware of site services--it is a personal goal of mine that within 3 months, all of the categories that were asked about reach at least 55% (indicating that 55% of respondents knew of the programs), though 60% would be amazing. I would also like to push to enroll more users in these site services, which I think would be a benefit all-around.

===========

As always, if you have any questions, comments, or reactions, feel free to post! Also, I just wanted to remind everyone that I have an official administration AMA in the misc section if they want to make use of it. Have a w
Live Long and Prosper

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Rosalie
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3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
Interesting.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:05:48 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Interesting.

Cool :) Any thoughts?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Rosalie
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3/13/2016 5:08:13 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:05:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Interesting.

Cool :) Any thoughts?

While I do disagree and shocked at some numbers, I'm kind of shocked at how many people said moderation is "too strict" I always heard people complaining that it's too lax.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:10:19 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:08:13 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:05:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Interesting.

Cool :) Any thoughts?

While I do disagree and shocked at some numbers, I'm kind of shocked at how many people said moderation is "too strict" I always heard people complaining that it's too lax.

Interesting--Dalt said something similar last survey. I always had the opposite impression, though, but maybe it's just the people I talk to :P

For curiosity's sake, can I ask what else shocked you, or what else you disagreed with?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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1harderthanyouthink
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3/13/2016 5:10:53 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
I think you should have two questions about moderation - one about just vote moderation and the other dealing with interpersonal conduct in regards to strictness.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Rosalie
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3/13/2016 5:12:12 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:10:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:08:13 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:05:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Interesting.

Cool :) Any thoughts?

While I do disagree and shocked at some numbers, I'm kind of shocked at how many people said moderation is "too strict" I always heard people complaining that it's too lax.

Interesting--Dalt said something similar last survey. I always had the opposite impression, though, but maybe it's just the people I talk to :P

Probably..but last time I heard, a.mob of people were protecting moderation was too lax...Lol :P. Weird.

For curiosity's sake, can I ask what else shocked you, or what else you disagreed with?

it's not something I'd particularly want to discuss here.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump
bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:14:01 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:12:12 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:10:19 AM, bsh1 wrote:
For curiosity's sake, can I ask what else shocked you, or what else you disagreed with?

it's not something I'd particularly want to discuss here.

Feel free to PM me if that would be better.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:15:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:10:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I think you should have two questions about moderation - one about just vote moderation and the other dealing with interpersonal conduct in regards to strictness.

When I showed Max the results, he said something similar. I think I will in the next survey.

Unfortunately, though, I am limited to 10 questions (otherwise I have to have a paying subscription). Someone suggested doing google forms instead to solve that problem...maybe it was TBR...so I might also try that if it can be anonymous.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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whiteflame
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3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
A number of intriguing findings, I'd say.

1. There's low involvement with the various programs endorsed by your administration. Many of these programs weren't meant to be widely instituted (like the opt-in voting system), and the tournaments are inherently limiting, but nonetheless it's interesting to see the low level of engagement with these programs. I wonder if that has more to do with people disengaging from debates in general, though, rather than just a lack of engagement on these specific programs.

2. I'm noticing that the general perception of moderation, while it's stayed mostly good, has shifted towards the "too strict" side. I'm not sure if that's just the result of the populations being polled being slightly different or if that's a genuine shift in attitudes, but it's something I'd like to explore more deeply.

3. Glad to see we're mainly viewed as in touch, though it's concerning that more than 50% of the polled population either don't know or believe moderation is out of touch. That's something we'll need to find a way to improve.

4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.
BlazingRodent
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3/13/2016 5:39:05 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:08:13 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:05:48 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:03:38 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Interesting.

Cool :) Any thoughts?

While I do disagree and shocked at some numbers, I'm kind of shocked at how many people said moderation is "too strict" I always heard people complaining that it's too lax.

Ikr?
bsh1
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3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
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3/13/2016 6:06:01 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:01:57 AM, bsh1 wrote:
SURVEY RESULTS

1. Do you approve of the current Presidential administration?

Strongly Approve - 17.31%
Approve - 36.54%
Slightly Approve - 11.54%
Neither Approve/Disapprove - 21.15%
Slightly Disapprove - 1.92%
Disapprove - 0.00%
Strongly Disapprove - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 7.69%

Total Approval - 65.39%
Total Disapproval - 5.77%
Total Other - 28.84%

Congrats on the high approval rating! Out of the data available for such things, only 1 American President has ever had a higher average approval rating - JFK (70.1%). The 2nd closest was Dwight Eisenhower who had an average rating of 65.0%, so you just barely edged out over him :) http://www.gallup.com...

2. Would you support a third term of the current Presidential administration?

Would Definitely Support - 26.92%
Would Likely Support - 19.23%
Would Possibly Support - 15.38%
Would Likely Not Support - 11.54%
Would Definitely Not Support - 9.62%
Unsure/Undecided - 17.31%

Total Likely Support - 46.15%
Total Unlikely Support - 21.16%
Total Other - 32.69%

Those are good numbers for a support base, only 4% needed for another term and with +30% available I'd say this is looking good if you decide to run.

3. What phrase best describes current moderation?

Far Too Strict - 7.69%
Too Strict - 3.85%
Slightly Too Strict - 13.46%
About Right - 44.23%
Slightly Too Lax - 9.62%
Too Lax - 5.77%
Far Too Lax - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 11.54%

Total Too Strict - 25.00%
Total About Right - 44.23%
Total Too Lax - 19.24%
Total Unsure - 11.54%

This is interesting. The almost equal balance in terms of "too strict" vs. "too lax" seems about right. I'd like to see the "about right" get up to above +50% though by the next poll.

4. Do you think DDO's Administration is in touch with the wants and needs of the userbase?

Yes, both the Presidency and Moderation are in touch - 34.62%
Yes, the Presidency is in touch, but not Moderation - 28.85%
Yes, Moderation is in touch, but not the Presidency - 11.54%
No, neither the Presidency nor Moderation are in touch - 3.85%
Unsure/Undecided - 21.15%

Total Presidency in Touch - 63.47%
Total Moderation in Touch - 46.16%
Total Other - 25.00%

Great for the Presidency, again - good job Bsh1. Alright for Moderation. I feel like this is more directed towards Juggle being out of touch and the Moderators being the "face of Juggle" so to speak. I can personally attest to the fact that both Airmax and Whiteflame consistently scan threads and are always aware of the current tides of DDO. I'd like to see these numbers rise by the next poll, and I'm thinking that perhaps more transparency/public interactions between moderation and the users would be a good first step. Perhaps in similar stride with Presidential updates we can start Moderation updates.

5. Have you used or participated in a Presidency-endorsed or -run program in the last 3 months (e.g. New Member Mentorship, Forum Revival, Opt-in Voting Guide, Official Tournaments, etc.)?

Yes, and I had a positive experience - 21.57%
Yes, and I had a neutral experience - 13.73%
Yes, and I had a negative experience - 0.00%
No, I have not - 60.78%
Unsure - 3.92%

This is curiously low. Perhaps out of the members who took this poll those who actively participate didn't make the list. It's good though that there were no negative experiences. That shows quality leadership in these programs and I like that this poll reflects that.

6. Which of these programs, initiatives, or items have you heard of? Select all that apply.

The DDO Tournament System - 70.00%
Presidential Updates - 68.00%
The Official Guide to Debating on DDO (The "How-To" Guide) - 66.00%
DDO Presidential Bulletin (debate) - 66.00%

New Member Debate Mentorship Program - 58.00%
The OP of the Month - 56.00%
The Biweekly Topics - 54.00%
DDO Jeopardy! - 52.00%
The Opt-in Voting Guide - 40.00%
None of the above - 12.00%

I wish the Official Vote Guide was included in this section. I would have liked to see how that ranks in terms of visibility and general awareness. I believe alot of the issues in regards to voting could be solved if more of the newer members had an easier way of being exposed to it.

7. Do you approve of the current tournament system?

Strongly Approve - 14.58%
Approve - 20.83%
Slightly Approve - 4.17%
Neither Approve/Disapprove - 18.75%
Slightly Disapprove - 6.25%
Disapprove - 2.08%
Strongly Disapprove - 2.08%
Unsure/Undecided - 31.25%

Total Approval - 39.58%
Total Disapproval - 10.41%
Total Other - 50.00%

So out of those with opinions, about 25% disapprove. I wonder what that's all about. Perhaps we should have a public discussion about this just to see what the issue is.

8. Should personal attacks be allowed on the forums?

Yes - 29.17%
No - 60.42%
Unsure/Undecided - 10.42%

No surprise here. I'm happy to see that the majority still desires some degree of civility.

9. Which of these areas (1. forum activity, 2. debate quality/quantity, 3. voting quality/quantity, 4. new user outreach/integration, 5. conduct/civility, 6. presidential transparency/communication) have improved, stayed the same, or declined in the last 6 months?

Presidential transparency/communication: +13
New user outreach/integration: +13
Forum activity: +1
Debate quality/quantity: -7
Conduct/civility: -10
Voting quality/quantity: -12

This is both unsurprising and troubling. It's great for you, for the presidency, and I'm happy the users feel this way in that regard. However, the drop in debate quality/quantity and voting quality/quantity has been bothering me for some time. With that said, we have some solutions for the debate quality in the works which is good, and I'm hoping that I can personally do something about the vote quality/quantity. This is going to be the biggest challenge for me though out of all the work I plan to do this coming year for the site. Something needs to be done though, so this is now my top priority. Hopefully we'll see some better results for these categories in the next poll.

10. Please rank the following in order of importance to you (with 1 being the best):

Debate Quality/Quantity
Voting Quality/Quantity
Forum Activity
Civility, Conduct, and Moderation

Bug Fixes and Site Updates
Coaching and Mentorship for Debaters
New User Outreach
Community Activities
Presidential Transparency and Communication
Updating the Wiki
Reviving the DDO Blog
Other

See, this is why this is now my top priority. Both debate quality/quantity and Vote quality/quantity hit the top of this list, and those are also the biggest drops in the previous list. This issue is real, and is clearly the most important one to be brought to light by this poll.

----------------------

All in all, great poll - great results. It brings light to some serious issues that I will personally be working on. Until the next one comes, godspeed.
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Blade-of-Truth
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3/13/2016 6:10:36 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
A number of intriguing findings, I'd say.

1. There's low involvement with the various programs endorsed by your administration. Many of these programs weren't meant to be widely instituted (like the opt-in voting system), and the tournaments are inherently limiting, but nonetheless it's interesting to see the low level of engagement with these programs. I wonder if that has more to do with people disengaging from debates in general, though, rather than just a lack of engagement on these specific programs.

2. I'm noticing that the general perception of moderation, while it's stayed mostly good, has shifted towards the "too strict" side. I'm not sure if that's just the result of the populations being polled being slightly different or if that's a genuine shift in attitudes, but it's something I'd like to explore more deeply.

I concur. I think the extremes in that response were pretty even, which is to be expected, but I did note that the "too strict" was larger than the "too lax" by about 6%. I too think we should explore this deeper. Find out what aspect of moderation specifically is the cause of this and then work on solutions for the issue once it's identified.

3. Glad to see we're mainly viewed as in touch, though it's concerning that more than 50% of the polled population either don't know or believe moderation is out of touch. That's something we'll need to find a way to improve.

I concur. I tossed out the idea of Moderation updates... similar to Bsh1's presidential updates. Perhaps more transparency would be the solution - because I can certainly attest that moderation is not out of touch, lol.

4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I concur once more. This is the biggest issue I saw in the thread - and is clearly one with the user base. We should most certainly explore this further and figure out ways to improve these results.
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whiteflame
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3/13/2016 6:18:10 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

Ah, my mistake. Quite right. Hopefully we can figure that out as well, though I'd hedge my bets on the latter.
famousdebater
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3/13/2016 3:16:59 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

I believe that moderation is too strict in the are of voting (hence why members are often put off voting causing a decrease in vote quantity). I believe that the opt in system for voting should remain the same and that the normal system for voting is significantly laxed. If people want good votes with less quantity they can choose the opt in system. If people want more votes with slightly less quantity (which might not always be the case), then they can stick to the laxed system.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
tejretics
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3/13/2016 4:59:44 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 3:16:59 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

I believe that moderation is too strict in the are of voting (hence why members are often put off voting causing a decrease in vote quantity). I believe that the opt in system for voting should remain the same and that the normal system for voting is significantly laxed. If people want good votes with less quantity they can choose the opt in system. If people want more votes with slightly less quantity (which might not always be the case), then they can stick to the laxed system.

What about protecting noobs? How are new members to know about the opt-in system?

Also, I strongly prefer the current system to the opt-in one. For instance, in my debate with you, whiteflame's and Raisor's initial RFD's which were awesome ones were both insufficient to meet the standards--which is crazy and has discouraged me from further using the opt-in system. But lax standards means terrible votes would also stay (don't say there would still be moderation; I know there would, but imo anything that doesn't fit the current standards is "terrible"). I want middle ground, and I'm sure many other debaters do too.

Voting is NOT for the voters; it is for the debaters. I disagree with voting being a "right" or a "privilege." If anything, it is a "responsibility."
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
famousdebater
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3/13/2016 5:05:29 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 4:59:44 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/13/2016 3:16:59 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

I believe that moderation is too strict in the are of voting (hence why members are often put off voting causing a decrease in vote quantity). I believe that the opt in system for voting should remain the same and that the normal system for voting is significantly laxed. If people want good votes with less quantity they can choose the opt in system. If people want more votes with slightly less quantity (which might not always be the case), then they can stick to the laxed system.

What about protecting noobs? How are new members to know about the opt-in system?

The noobs will learn once they stay on the site for some time. Nobody joined the site and instantly new how to use all of the features and how to set up debate with the correct elo restrictions for good votes, etc. This will just be another thing that noobs will have to learn. And to be honest, I'd prefer some feedback of slightly less quality as opposed to no feedback at all.

Also, I strongly prefer the current system to the opt-in one. For instance, in my debate with you, whiteflame's and Raisor's initial RFD's which were awesome ones were both insufficient to meet the standards--which is crazy and has discouraged me from further using the opt-in system. But lax standards means terrible votes would also stay (don't say there would still be moderation; I know there would, but imo anything that doesn't fit the current standards is "terrible"). I want middle ground, and I'm sure many other debaters do too.

If you want good voting but not to use the opt in voting standards then just put elo restrictions on. I'm sure that the voters with higher elos will vote better (logically speaking). You could also select judges if you wanted to be a bit more picky.

Voting is NOT for the voters; it is for the debaters. I disagree with voting being a "right" or a "privilege." If anything, it is a "responsibility."

I agree. But there's no point keeping the current standards if vote quantity is going to remain as scarce as it currently is. More votes with less quality are better than no votes.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
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tejretics
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3/13/2016 5:07:32 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 5:05:29 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 3/13/2016 4:59:44 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 3/13/2016 3:16:59 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

I believe that moderation is too strict in the are of voting (hence why members are often put off voting causing a decrease in vote quantity). I believe that the opt in system for voting should remain the same and that the normal system for voting is significantly laxed. If people want good votes with less quantity they can choose the opt in system. If people want more votes with slightly less quantity (which might not always be the case), then they can stick to the laxed system.

What about protecting noobs? How are new members to know about the opt-in system?

The noobs will learn once they stay on the site for some time. Nobody joined the site and instantly new how to use all of the features and how to set up debate with the correct elo restrictions for good votes, etc. This will just be another thing that noobs will have to learn. And to be honest, I'd prefer some feedback of slightly less quality as opposed to no feedback at all.

So the noobs should be forced to take terrible votes?


Also, I strongly prefer the current system to the opt-in one. For instance, in my debate with you, whiteflame's and Raisor's initial RFD's which were awesome ones were both insufficient to meet the standards--which is crazy and has discouraged me from further using the opt-in system. But lax standards means terrible votes would also stay (don't say there would still be moderation; I know there would, but imo anything that doesn't fit the current standards is "terrible"). I want middle ground, and I'm sure many other debaters do too.

If you want good voting but not to use the opt in voting standards then just put elo restrictions on. I'm sure that the voters with higher elos will vote better (logically speaking). You could also select judges if you wanted to be a bit more picky.

Nonsense. If the standards are lacked, Elo isn't going to matter. Nor is judge voting. Even under judge voting, votes have been removed.


Voting is NOT for the voters; it is for the debaters. I disagree with voting being a "right" or a "privilege." If anything, it is a "responsibility."

I agree. But there's no point keeping the current standards if vote quantity is going to remain as scarce as it currently is. More votes with less quality are better than no votes.

I disagree. I'd rather have a debate tied than have a sh!tty vote causing me to lose.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
bsh1
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3/13/2016 7:54:11 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 3:16:59 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:49:58 AM, bsh1 wrote:
At 3/13/2016 5:20:56 AM, whiteflame wrote:
4. As someone who sees a great deal of votes every day, it's interesting to see that the largest perceptual decline has been in voting. That combined with the shift in view that moderation is too strict is interesting, though perhaps that might have more to do with the visibility of vote report results rather than our practices. Again, something I'd like to suss out a little more.

I asked about "voting quality/quantity." The decline may reflect the latter more than the former.

I believe that moderation is too strict in the are of voting (hence why members are often put off voting causing a decrease in vote quantity). I believe that the opt in system for voting should remain the same and that the normal system for voting is significantly laxed. If people want good votes with less quantity they can choose the opt in system. If people want more votes with slightly less quantity (which might not always be the case), then they can stick to the laxed system.

This is primarily an issue you should raise with moderation.
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bsh1
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3/13/2016 9:31:12 PM
Posted: 9 months ago
Also wanted to bump this.
Live Long and Prosper

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"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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bsh1
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3/14/2016 5:33:11 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/13/2016 9:31:12 PM, bsh1 wrote:
Also wanted to bump this.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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bsh1
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3/14/2016 5:39:42 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

Not officially. Max was our longest-serving President--he did 3 terms. I consider 3 terms to be a kind of informal limit, and I would not seek reelection again in December if I was reelected in the Spring.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
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F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2016 5:41:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

This is exactly what I came into this thread to ask. Either something's going on and you are reading my mind...

I think a two terms are the most appropriate for a DDO president. As long as there are members willing to run, the more people we give chances to get up there and see what they can do, the better. We could end up with some hidden gems like TUF.
Maikuru
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3/14/2016 5:44:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:41:41 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

This is exactly what I came into this thread to ask. Either something's going on and you are reading my mind...

...or we're the same person? Thinking the same thing. Also, stay away from tulle.

I think a two terms are the most appropriate for a DDO president. As long as there are members willing to run, the more people we give chances to get up there and see what they can do, the better. We could end up with some hidden gems like TUF.

You think two is good even with 6 month terms?
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bsh1
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3/14/2016 5:46:41 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:41:41 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

This is exactly what I came into this thread to ask. Either something's going on and you are reading my mind...

I think a two terms are the most appropriate for a DDO president. As long as there are members willing to run, the more people we give chances to get up there and see what they can do, the better. We could end up with some hidden gems like TUF.

Certainly, this can be the case. It can also work to the countrary--for instance, someone once told me that they voted for Mikal to "give him a chance," and that didn't work out as hoped. Ideally, votes should be cast on the qualifications and personality of the candidates themselves.

I have not decided yet whether or not to run for a third term. But, I do know that if I do run, I will not run again in the winter.
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

Follow the DDOlympics
: http://www.debate.org...

Open Debate Topics Project: http://www.debate.org...
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2016 5:53:20 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:46:41 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Certainly, this can be the case. It can also work to the countrary--for instance, someone once told me that they voted for Mikal to "give him a chance," and that didn't work out as hoped. Ideally, votes should be cast on the qualifications and personality of the candidates themselves.

I have not decided yet whether or not to run for a third term. But, I do know that if I do run, I will not run again in the winter.

Mikal's leaving didn't damage the site as much as TUF's presidency helped. The position is inconsequential enough that an incompetent running it doesn't do the site any harm. Yet, if someone extremely passionate does it, they go above and beyond the minimum requirements and really do something special for the community. In that respect "experience" is actually a net negative.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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3/14/2016 5:58:37 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:44:41 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:41:41 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

This is exactly what I came into this thread to ask. Either something's going on and you are reading my mind...

...or we're the same person? Thinking the same thing. Also, stay away from tulle.

I think a two terms are the most appropriate for a DDO president. As long as there are members willing to run, the more people we give chances to get up there and see what they can do, the better. We could end up with some hidden gems like TUF.

You think two is good even with 6 month terms?

Sure. The US presidential term is four years but for a site that's lasted seven years, two terms of six months seemed reasonable. What's a good estimate in your opinion?
Maikuru
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3/14/2016 6:10:49 AM
Posted: 9 months ago
At 3/14/2016 5:58:37 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:44:41 AM, Maikuru wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:41:41 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 3/14/2016 5:34:00 AM, Maikuru wrote:
Are there term limits for DDO presidents?

This is exactly what I came into this thread to ask. Either something's going on and you are reading my mind...

...or we're the same person? Thinking the same thing. Also, stay away from tulle.

I think a two terms are the most appropriate for a DDO president. As long as there are members willing to run, the more people we give chances to get up there and see what they can do, the better. We could end up with some hidden gems like TUF.

You think two is good even with 6 month terms?

Sure. The US presidential term is four years but for a site that's lasted seven years, two terms of six months seemed reasonable. What's a good estimate in your opinion?

I'm pretty open-minded about it. Without Juggle's support, the position is essentially a figurehead. If they are effective in increasing site activity and/or improving site climate, I'm okay with them sticking around.

I get your point about injecting new blood, though.
"You assume I wouldn't want to burn this whole place to the ground."
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