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Why we should elect ima

Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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4/8/2016 7:57:15 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Whether we realize it or not, we are the metaphorical republican party and are carrying out similar election procedures. Please end this misery and destroy the office.

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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/8/2016 9:21:14 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/8/2016 9:08:40 PM, TN05 wrote:
"Anyone serious about abolitionism will vote for TNO5" - Wylted

I stand by that statement
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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4/8/2016 9:56:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/8/2016 7:57:15 PM, Mikal wrote:
Whether we realize it or not, we are the metaphorical republican party and are carrying out similar election procedures. Please end this misery and destroy the office.

This message is brought to you by www.stopfukingspammingsht.com

I like his movie
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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4/8/2016 11:43:32 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/8/2016 7:57:15 PM, Mikal wrote:
Whether we realize it or not, we are the metaphorical republican party and are carrying out similar election procedures.

Which candidate am I? :D

Please end this misery and destroy the office.

This message is brought to you by www.stopfukingspammingsht.com
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/9/2016 1:07:38 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 1:04:38 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2016 1:00:25 AM, TBR wrote:
Just checking-out my new avatar.

That is pretty sweet

Thanks. I was waffling over "support" and "supporter".
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2016 1:08:28 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 1:07:38 AM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 1:04:38 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2016 1:00:25 AM, TBR wrote:
Just checking-out my new avatar.

That is pretty sweet

Thanks. I was waffling over "support" and "supporter".

Supporter sounds more dirty, I like it
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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4/9/2016 5:19:48 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/8/2016 8:26:55 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We shouldn't. We ought to be voting Wylted.

Why?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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4/9/2016 11:54:46 AM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 5:19:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/8/2016 8:26:55 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We shouldn't. We ought to be voting Wylted.

Why?

- He's trying to involve younger members in his campaign so that they get experience for the future generations of DDO (unlike the other campgains)

- He's got people who will sustainably keep Bsh's programs running during his campaign. Nobody else has officially announced this however DK/TUF did mention this. Wylted has people working on it who will keep their sole focus on keeping these programs running. DK/TUF and other presidential campaign think that they can work on keeping Bsh's programs running, thinking of and implementing new ideas and communicating with juggle between the two of them. Wytled want priority on everything so he has people working on all parts of his campaign so that nobody is overly pressured to do everything.

- He's working extensively on a strong platform with Rosalie on implementing new ideas.

- He's able to communicate with Juggle too and he knows people that are able to. He lives extremely close to Juggle HQ and he plans to personally go to the HQ and talk to them extensively. This means that DK/TUF have no advantage over his campaign in that aspect.

There's other stuff but that's what I've got off of the top of my head.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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4/9/2016 12:06:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 11:54:46 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 5:19:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/8/2016 8:26:55 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We shouldn't. We ought to be voting Wylted.

Why?

- He's trying to involve younger members in his campaign so that they get experience for the future generations of DDO (unlike the other campgains)

That is no reason to vote for him.


- He's got people who will sustainably keep Bsh's programs running during his campaign. Nobody else has officially announced this however DK/TUF did mention this. Wylted has people working on it who will keep their sole focus on keeping these programs running. DK/TUF and other presidential campaign think that they can work on keeping Bsh's programs running, thinking of and implementing new ideas and communicating with juggle between the two of them. Wytled want priority on everything so he has people working on all parts of his campaign so that nobody is overly pressured to do everything.

Why do you think bsh1's campaigns -- or the presidency itself -- useful in any way?


- He's working extensively on a strong platform with Rosalie on implementing new ideas.

Why should "new ideas" be implemented? What's wrong with the status quo, specifically?


- He's able to communicate with Juggle too and he knows people that are able to. He lives extremely close to Juggle HQ and he plans to personally go to the HQ and talk to them extensively. This means that DK/TUF have no advantage over his campaign in that aspect.

First, he doesn't live "extremely close" to the Juggle HQ. He conceded that he lives pretty far away -- and that he would just make the trip because he cares for the site. Either you didn't know this or you are lying -- I suspect the former. DK lives way closer.

Second, why do you think arriving at Juggle's doorstep will increase cooperation, especially doing so unannounced?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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4/9/2016 12:31:25 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 12:06:16 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/9/2016 11:54:46 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 5:19:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/8/2016 8:26:55 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We shouldn't. We ought to be voting Wylted.

Why?

- He's trying to involve younger members in his campaign so that they get experience for the future generations of DDO (unlike the other campgains)

That is no reason to vote for him.

You're a younger member of the community so it's in your best interest (as well as mine) to vote Wytled. He aims to improve this site for the younger community so that they get a say and so that they gain experience of getting a chance to help run the site with the guidance of older, more experienced members.

- He's got people who will sustainably keep Bsh's programs running during his campaign. Nobody else has officially announced this however DK/TUF did mention this. Wylted has people working on it who will keep their sole focus on keeping these programs running. DK/TUF and other presidential campaign think that they can work on keeping Bsh's programs running, thinking of and implementing new ideas and communicating with juggle between the two of them. Wytled want priority on everything so he has people working on all parts of his campaign so that nobody is overly pressured to do everything.

Why do you think bsh1's campaigns -- or the presidency itself -- useful in any way?

Bsh's polls and surveys that he constructed show that many people approved of his programs and they also approved of his presidency. Furthermore, Bsh was re-elected for a second term meaning that the community obviously like and find his programs helpful.

The presidency is necessary in order to help new members through mentorship and getting them familiar with the site. It is also necessary to keep the site running and progressing. As the programs administrator of Wylted's campaign I will be helping to run Bsh's campaigns and I will be constructing surveys in order to learn what the community wants. This means that we can see what the majority want and do what is in the best interest of the community. Since the survey will show us what the community want then we can do what they want. The presidency is necessary in order to find out what the site needs and to also keep these programs running. More recently, the presidency is also necessary to establish communication with airmax and more importantly with Juggle.

- He's working extensively on a strong platform with Rosalie on implementing new ideas.

Why should "new ideas" be implemented? What's wrong with the status quo, specifically?

The status quo is good but the community wants to progress. If we have the option to get better then we should take it. If we want this site to remain active then we need forum revival initiatives, we need the communities opinions via surveys, we need initiatives to welcome new members to the site (through mentorship and the welcoming new members program).

- He's able to communicate with Juggle too and he knows people that are able to. He lives extremely close to Juggle HQ and he plans to personally go to the HQ and talk to them extensively. This means that DK/TUF have no advantage over his campaign in that aspect.

First, he doesn't live "extremely close" to the Juggle HQ. He conceded that he lives pretty far away -- and that he would just make the trip because he cares for the site. Either you didn't know this or you are lying -- I suspect the former. DK lives way closer.

My apologies. I didn't know that Wylted admitted that he didn't live close. Although if he says that he'll make a trip there then I'm willing to believe that he will. Since wylted actually came up with the idea of contacting Juggle this also seems like a reason to vote him.

Second, why do you think arriving at Juggle's doorstep will increase cooperation, especially doing so unannounced?

I don't recall him saying that he'd do it unannounced but even if he did they'd have to talk to him about it. If he goes there and wishes to speak to Juggle they have to speak to him, they can't just close the door on his face and refuse to speak to him about their company.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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4/9/2016 1:21:03 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 12:31:25 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 12:06:16 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/9/2016 11:54:46 AM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 5:19:48 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/8/2016 8:26:55 PM, famousdebater wrote:
We shouldn't. We ought to be voting Wylted.

Why?

- He's trying to involve younger members in his campaign so that they get experience for the future generations of DDO (unlike the other campgains)

That is no reason to vote for him.

You're a younger member of the community so it's in your best interest (as well as mine) to vote Wytled. He aims to improve this site for the younger community so that they get a say and so that they gain experience of getting a chance to help run the site with the guidance of older, more experienced members.

Age doesn't matter - that's what all other campaigns have done. I don't view focus on younger age groups becoming part of the presidency as beneficial -- factors outside of competence shouldn't be taken into consideration.


- He's got people who will sustainably keep Bsh's programs running during his campaign. Nobody else has officially announced this however DK/TUF did mention this. Wylted has people working on it who will keep their sole focus on keeping these programs running. DK/TUF and other presidential campaign think that they can work on keeping Bsh's programs running, thinking of and implementing new ideas and communicating with juggle between the two of them. Wytled want priority on everything so he has people working on all parts of his campaign so that nobody is overly pressured to do everything.

Why do you think bsh1's campaigns -- or the presidency itself -- useful in any way?

Bsh's polls and surveys that he constructed show that many people approved of his programs and they also approved of his presidency. Furthermore, Bsh was re-elected for a second term meaning that the community obviously like and find his programs helpful.

1) The polls and surveys did not necessarily take up all the people. Currently, more people support abolition than not, in most cases - or at least, most people agree the presidency is completely meaningless. You weren't around when Ore was president: at that time, there were no such programs.

2) You're essentially promising a "second bsh1 term" in the same way Clinton has been told that she is promising a "second Obama term." The problem is, I don't find your platform nearly as appealing as, say, DK's. Also, Wylted's actions over the past few days -- e.g., with regards to unnecessarily calling bsh1 out and insulting people like Chris and ER who defended bsh -- make me think he's much less competent for the post than DK.

3) Your justifications for being for the programs started by bsh are based entirely on community approval. But by that logic, a vote for Bench is more justified because he's essentially asking the community to directly decide *every* policy decision.


The presidency is necessary in order to help new members through mentorship and getting them familiar with the site. It is also necessary to keep the site running and progressing. As the programs administrator of Wylted's campaign I will be helping to run Bsh's campaigns and I will be constructing surveys in order to learn what the community wants. This means that we can see what the majority want and do what is in the best interest of the community. Since the survey will show us what the community want then we can do what they want. The presidency is necessary in order to find out what the site needs and to also keep these programs running. More recently, the presidency is also necessary to establish communication with airmax and more importantly with Juggle.

"Mentorship" and "making people familiar with the site" is very easily accomplished without the presidency. The user outreach program existed to some extent without bsh1's presidency - the outreach members are listed in the "New Members Read Me" thread. User outreach is in no way contingent on a presidency. Furthermore, there was no significant increase in post count under bsh1's term despite his elaborate measures to do so, which is a testimony to how useless the presidency is. Imabench's DDO Conventions also promise to do what the community wants - in a much more direct way than surveys, etc. Airmax is a member of the site - he doesn't need a liaison to deal with. Finally, there's no reason to think Juggle will be responsive at all.


- He's working extensively on a strong platform with Rosalie on implementing new ideas.

Why should "new ideas" be implemented? What's wrong with the status quo, specifically?

The status quo is good but the community wants to progress. If we have the option to get better then we should take it. If we want this site to remain active then we need forum revival initiatives, we need the communities opinions via surveys, we need initiatives to welcome new members to the site (through mentorship and the welcoming new members program).

The forum revival initiatives happened without the president's instruction at all. The History forum revival was taken up by UtherPenguin, bballcrook21 and Voice-of-Truth, the Economics forum revival was taken up by ColeTrain, Fortis, and Rosalie, and so forth, without any/much assistance from bsh's presidency. Forum revival initiatives can happen without a presidency. Mentorship initiatives can be created by DDO conventions if the community wants that, and DK also supports the mentorship program. Outside of that, any "progress" will most likely be negative at this point. For instance, voting standards need not and should not be enhanced - at best, an "opt out" option should be introduced.


- He's able to communicate with Juggle too and he knows people that are able to. He lives extremely close to Juggle HQ and he plans to personally go to the HQ and talk to them extensively. This means that DK/TUF have no advantage over his campaign in that aspect.

First, he doesn't live "extremely close" to the Juggle HQ. He conceded that he lives pretty far away -- and that he would just make the trip because he cares for the site. Either you didn't know this or you are lying -- I suspect the former. DK lives way closer.

My apologies. I didn't know that Wylted admitted that he didn't live close. Although if he says that he'll make a trip there then I'm willing to believe that he will. Since wylted actually came up with the idea of contacting Juggle this also seems like a reason to vote him.

First, he wasn't the first one to come up with the idea. Much prior to his posting a campaign announcement, DK told me he had thought of it. Second, DK is also a person who can be trusted to do that, and lives closer - so pragmatically, it's easier and more likely.


Second, why do you think arriving at Juggle's doorstep will increase cooperation, especially doing so unannounced?

I don't recall him saying that he'd do it unannounced but even if he did they'd have to talk to him about it. If he goes there and wishes to speak to Juggle they have to speak to him, they can't just close the door on his face and refuse to speak to him about their company.

It is unannounced because there's no way to "announce" it. Juggle is completely unresponsive to all emails and letters, and it is highly unlikely that such a response will ever come up. Furthermore, he can't just barge in and ask them to care about DDO; DK has a better plan, e.g. convince them of profit gains, etc.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
famousdebater
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4/9/2016 2:27:11 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 1:21:03 PM, tejretics wrote:
Age doesn't matter - that's what all other campaigns have done. I don't view focus on younger age groups becoming part of the presidency as beneficial -- factors outside of competence shouldn't be taken into consideration.

Alright then. It's up to you how you view the fact that Wylted it trying to engage with the younger members of the community as well as experienced.

Bsh's polls and surveys that he constructed show that many people approved of his programs and they also approved of his presidency. Furthermore, Bsh was re-elected for a second term meaning that the community obviously like and find his programs helpful.

1) The polls and surveys did not necessarily take up all the people. Currently, more people support abolition than not, in most cases - or at least, most people agree the presidency is completely meaningless. You weren't around when Ore was president: at that time, there were no such programs.

I'm assuming that when Ore was president Juggle were responsive so these programs were less ... necessary. Just because more people are for the abolition of the presidency, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do, besides, a presidency isn't going to do any harm to them is it?

Also, we plan on sending the polls to the active members of the community as well as new ones so that we get a large variety of results from different people to see what they want.

2) You're essentially promising a "second bsh1 term" in the same way Clinton has been told that she is promising a "second Obama term." The problem is, I don't find your platform nearly as appealing as, say, DK's. Also, Wylted's actions over the past few days -- e.g., with regards to unnecessarily calling bsh1 out and insulting people like Chris and ER who defended bsh -- make me think he's much less competent for the post than DK.

This is a massive misconception around our platform. Keeping Bsh's programs running is only 1/3 of Wylted's campaign. He's got another third of his campaign designated to new programs. He's also got the final third designated to his plan on how to convince Juggle to return to the site (regarding finances and potential benefits for them).

3) Your justifications for being for the programs started by bsh are based entirely on community approval. But by that logic, a vote for Bench is more justified because he's essentially asking the community to directly decide *every* policy decision.

But what Bench is failing to do is to:

a) Establish communication with Juggle

b) Do what is in the best interest for the site as well as what the community wants

c) To run a SERIOUS campaign. Whilst this may seem like a questionable assertion his attitude towards the others and the election is questionable. You only need to see his posts regarding the issue to know that he isn't taking this nearly as seriously as the rest of us. Wylted created the thread calling for Bsh's resignation following the indicent where Bsh told him to commit suicide. That response is justified by Wylted but when Bench signed it just so that it would further his campaign you know that he's not doing it for serious reasons. This is just one of many examples of imabench's trollish posts that fail to take the issue seriously.

"Mentorship" and "making people familiar with the site" is very easily accomplished without the presidency. The user outreach program existed to some extent without bsh1's presidency - the outreach members are listed in the "New Members Read Me" thread. User outreach is in no way contingent on a presidency. Furthermore, there was no significant increase in post count under bsh1's term despite his elaborate measures to do so, which is a testimony to how useless the presidency is. Imabench's DDO Conventions also promise to do what the community wants - in a much more direct way than surveys, etc. Airmax is a member of the site - he doesn't need a liaison to deal with. Finally, there's no reason to think Juggle will be responsive at all.

Mentorship and the user outreach program are done BETTER with the presidency than without because the president has an obligation to do it whereas without it people must do it of their own free will.

The forum revival initiatives happened without the president's instruction at all. The History forum revival was taken up by UtherPenguin, bballcrook21 and Voice-of-Truth, the Economics forum revival was taken up by ColeTrain, Fortis, and Rosalie, and so forth, without any/much assistance from bsh's presidency. Forum revival initiatives can happen without a presidency. Mentorship initiatives can be created by DDO conventions if the community wants that, and DK also supports the mentorship program. Outside of that, any "progress" will most likely be negative at this point. For instance, voting standards need not and should not be enhanced - at best, an "opt out" option should be introduced.

Actually Bsh did an official forum revival initiative a while back which was more successful than the other forum revival initiatives. By the way, there is an opt out solution if you put no comments required alongside votes.

First, he wasn't the first one to come up with the idea. Much prior to his posting a campaign announcement, DK told me he had thought of it. Second, DK is also a person who can be trusted to do that, and lives closer - so pragmatically, it's easier and more likely.

Fine, I'll rephrase that, he was the first to officially announce. it. If Wylted does win the election then I'm sure that DK and TUF will still offer their support in establishing communication with Juggle and even if they don't there's no reason to not rust Wylted.

It is unannounced because there's no way to "announce" it. Juggle is completely unresponsive to all emails and letters, and it is highly unlikely that such a response will ever come up. Furthermore, he can't just barge in and ask them to care about DDO; DK has a better plan, e.g. convince them of profit gains, etc.

Good point, okay he can't come up announced but he could go to the HQ and arrange for a specific date to meet with Juggle representatives to meet. Wylted also has plans similar to DK with ways to make more profit and also has plans regarding how Juggle can improve DDO which will ultimately lead to more site activity and profit gains.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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4/9/2016 2:39:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 2:27:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
I'm assuming that when Ore was president Juggle were responsive so these programs were less ... necessary. Just because more people are for the abolition of the presidency, doesn't mean that it's the right thing to do, besides, a presidency isn't going to do any harm to them is it?

(1) Juggle's responsiveness is *irrelevant* to presidential programs.

(2) Juggle wasn't responsive anyway.


2) You're essentially promising a "second bsh1 term" in the same way Clinton has been told that she is promising a "second Obama term." The problem is, I don't find your platform nearly as appealing as, say, DK's. Also, Wylted's actions over the past few days -- e.g., with regards to unnecessarily calling bsh1 out and insulting people like Chris and ER who defended bsh -- make me think he's much less competent for the post than DK.

This is a massive misconception around our platform. Keeping Bsh's programs running is only 1/3 of Wylted's campaign. He's got another third of his campaign designated to new programs. He's also got the final third designated to his plan on how to convince Juggle to return to the site (regarding finances and potential benefits for them).

First, extend that Wylted is not the person I trust to be president of this community, following multiple past actions. Second, DK's platform is still better than Wylted's.

But what Bench is failing to do is to:

a) Establish communication with Juggle

Look, whether you like it or not, Juggle is *not* going to come back to this site in the near future, no matter what DK and Wylted do. It's an illusion that many members have. Bsh1 has sent multiple emails and letters to Juggle with no responses. Ore_Ele left the site because of the unresponsiveness. Furthermore, I have reasons to believe that Ore has some inside knowledge that makes him believe Juggle isn't going to come back.

b) Do what is in the best interest for the site as well as what the community wants

What the community wants is *exactly* what Imabench is doing. The DDO Conventions are basically people in the community proposing plans for site reform and the community voting on them. The community *makes* the decisions. What the community wants is the focus of Imabench's platform.

c) To run a SERIOUS campaign. Whilst this may seem like a questionable assertion his attitude towards the others and the election is questionable. You only need to see his posts regarding the issue to know that he isn't taking this nearly as seriously as the rest of us. Wylted created the thread calling for Bsh's resignation following the indicent where Bsh told him to commit suicide. That response is justified by Wylted but when Bench signed it just so that it would further his campaign you know that he's not doing it for serious reasons. This is just one of many examples of imabench's trollish posts that fail to take the issue seriously.

First, the reason Imabench doesn't care much is simple: his campaign is not going to *do* anything as president. He is going to *abolish* the presidency and replace it. I have some more detailed knowledge of the plan he has discussed with Airmax. So he doesn't have to care, because he isn't going to be president. A user being a troll is important in an election only if that person is going to take the responsibility of the presidency, which Bench is *not doing.*

Second, Wylted made some unnecessary attacks on Chris and Endark, and -- through his tenure on the site -- hasn't displayed trustworthy behavior. I have little doubt that Wylted cares about the site; he really does. But I wouldn't trust Wylted with this responsibility.

Mentorship and the user outreach program are done BETTER with the presidency than without because the president has an obligation to do it whereas without it people must do it of their own free will.

Wrong. There's no reason to believe this whatsoever.

Actually Bsh did an official forum revival initiative a while back which was more successful than the other forum revival initiatives. By the way, there is an opt out solution if you put no comments required alongside votes.

Wrong again. The unofficial forum revivals have been *far* more effective. Like I said, administration-based forum revivals weren't that successful, e.g. there was little or no post count inflation. Name a forum that was revived by the administration. In contrast, the History and Economics forums have had significant inflation in post count thanks -- in large part -- to the unofficial forum revival programs.

Fine, I'll rephrase that, he was the first to officially announce. it. If Wylted does win the election then I'm sure that DK and TUF will still offer their support in establishing communication with Juggle and even if they don't there's no reason to not rust Wylted.

Being the first to announce it doesn't change anything with regards to why people "ought to vote for Wylted." It's your burden to prove that and this does nothing to advance it, if DK and TUF are going to do the same. I'm looking for *unique* advantages, because I default to assuming DK/TUF being better.

Good point, okay he can't come up announced but he could go to the HQ and arrange for a specific date to meet with Juggle representatives to meet. Wylted also has plans similar to DK with ways to make more profit and also has plans regarding how Juggle can improve DDO which will ultimately lead to more site activity and profit gains.

(1) I am very skeptical that Juggle will significantly respond to that either.

(2) I believe TUF, especially, is much more qualified to deal with Juggle because of his prior workings with Juggle. TUF has been hailed as among the best presidents this site has had, and the "choose winner" system and similar advancements occurred under his presidency. He has worked with Juggle before and is far more experienced in dealing with them.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
famousdebater
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4/9/2016 5:28:51 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 2:39:54 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 4/9/2016 2:27:11 PM, famousdebater wrote:
(1) Juggle's responsiveness is *irrelevant* to presidential programs.

Incorrect, if juggle is responsive then presidential programs are minor considering that Juggle can make formatting changes to the website, it's design and it's features. Little things like the opt in voting system could be genuinly implemented by Juggle as an option instead of you having to specify in R1.

(2) Juggle wasn't responsive anyway.

Okay thanks for clarifying.

2) You're essentially promising a "second bsh1 term" in the same way Clinton has been told that she is promising a "second Obama term." The problem is, I don't find your platform nearly as appealing as, say, DK's. Also, Wylted's actions over the past few days -- e.g., with regards to unnecessarily calling bsh1 out and insulting people like Chris and ER who defended bsh -- make me think he's much less competent for the post than DK.

This is a massive misconception around our platform. Keeping Bsh's programs running is only 1/3 of Wylted's campaign. He's got another third of his campaign designated to new programs. He's also got the final third designated to his plan on how to convince Juggle to return to the site (regarding finances and potential benefits for them).

First, extend that Wylted is not the person I trust to be president of this community, following multiple past actions. Second, DK's platform is still better than Wylted's.

You shouldn't be basing this off of whether you trust Wylted or not. Me and Rosalie also run a major portion of wylted's campaign too.

But what Bench is failing to do is to:

a) Establish communication with Juggle

Look, whether you like it or not, Juggle is *not* going to come back to this site in the near future, no matter what DK and Wylted do. It's an illusion that many members have. Bsh1 has sent multiple emails and letters to Juggle with no responses. Ore_Ele left the site because of the unresponsiveness. Furthermore, I have reasons to believe that Ore has some inside knowledge that makes him believe Juggle isn't going to come back.

I can't really respond to this without knowing those "reasons".

b) Do what is in the best interest for the site as well as what the community wants

What the community wants is *exactly* what Imabench is doing. The DDO Conventions are basically people in the community proposing plans for site reform and the community voting on them. The community *makes* the decisions. What the community wants is the focus of Imabench's platform.

I know that he's doing what the community wants. But I was mentioning that he isn't doing what is in the best interest of the site too. You need a balance of keeping the community happy but also doing the right thing. Bench is going to make this site fall into anarchism. Freedom is important but too much freedom causes chaos. The community should have a say but they shouldn't have all of the say.

c) To run a SERIOUS campaign. Whilst this may seem like a questionable assertion his attitude towards the others and the election is questionable. You only need to see his posts regarding the issue to know that he isn't taking this nearly as seriously as the rest of us. Wylted created the thread calling for Bsh's resignation following the indicent where Bsh told him to commit suicide. That response is justified by Wylted but when Bench signed it just so that it would further his campaign you know that he's not doing it for serious reasons. This is just one of many examples of imabench's trollish posts that fail to take the issue seriously.

First, the reason Imabench doesn't care much is simple: his campaign is not going to *do* anything as president. He is going to *abolish* the presidency and replace it. I have some more detailed knowledge of the plan he has discussed with Airmax. So he doesn't have to care, because he isn't going to be president. A user being a troll is important in an election only if that person is going to take the responsibility of the presidency, which Bench is *not doing.*

Fair enough, though if you're trusting somebody to implement a plan that few people know about regarding the abolishment of such an important and controversial part of DDO you'd hope that it would be done by someone who is taking this even remotely seriously.

Second, Wylted made some unnecessary attacks on Chris and Endark, and -- through his tenure on the site -- hasn't displayed trustworthy behavior. I have little doubt that Wylted cares about the site; he really does. But I wouldn't trust Wylted with this responsibility.

He was angry about the fact that Bsh told him to commit suicide and 1harder and endark defended bsh.

Mentorship and the user outreach program are done BETTER with the presidency than without because the president has an obligation to do it whereas without it people must do it of their own free will.

Wrong. There's no reason to believe this whatsoever.

It's logical though. If you're president it's a responsibility. If you're not then you're doing it out of your own free time when in reality there is little / no pressure on you to do anything like this.

Actually Bsh did an official forum revival initiative a while back which was more successful than the other forum revival initiatives. By the way, there is an opt out solution if you put no comments required alongside votes.

Wrong again. The unofficial forum revivals have been *far* more effective. Like I said, administration-based forum revivals weren't that successful, e.g. there was little or no post count inflation. Name a forum that was revived by the administration. In contrast, the History and Economics forums have had significant inflation in post count thanks -- in large part -- to the unofficial forum revival programs.

Bsh's forum revival was a general one which Bsh reported (using forum statistics that he gathered) that there had been an increase in activity in virtually all forums (even if it was minor).

Being the first to announce it doesn't change anything with regards to why people "ought to vote for Wylted." It's your burden to prove that and this does nothing to advance it, if DK and TUF are going to do the same. I'm looking for *unique* advantages, because I default to assuming DK/TUF being better.

I'm just saying that it's officially Wylted's idea that DK/TUF presumably copied. We will be releasing our official presidential platform with all of the new policies we wish to implement. Hopefully, we'll change your mind by then.

(1) I am very skeptical that Juggle will significantly respond to that either.

Then DK/TUF have no advantage over us regarding this issue if you believe that this is the case.

(2) I believe TUF, especially, is much more qualified to deal with Juggle because of his prior workings with Juggle. TUF has been hailed as among the best presidents this site has had, and the "choose winner" system and similar advancements occurred under his presidency. He has worked with Juggle before and is far more experienced in dealing with them.

You said that DK lives near Juggle HQ not TUF. If TUF doesn't live near Juggle then the same flaw you pointed out with Wylted appleis here. Furthermore, if Wylted is elected president then Wylted with have higher status than TUF and will be more likely to have communication with Juggle.

TUF had communication with Juggle in the past but that was because he was the president. If Wylted is the president it's no different to what is was with TUF. Whoever is president has the authority to talk to Juggle about this. Previous interactions are meaningless because TUF no longer has the same authority that he had when he was president.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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4/9/2016 6:22:30 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

They aren't communicating because nobody has put a gun to their head.
TBR
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4/9/2016 6:27:52 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 6:22:30 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

They aren't communicating because nobody has put a gun to their head.

I agree with that - metaphorically. The idea that a guy from the site with the title "president" would make some huge difference is more than silly to me, that's all.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO User: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO.
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO President: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO, I AM PRESIDENT!
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.
imabench
Posts: 21,220
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4/9/2016 6:38:54 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 6:27:52 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:22:30 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

They aren't communicating because nobody has put a gun to their head.

I agree with that - metaphorically. The idea that a guy from the site with the title "president" would make some huge difference is more than silly to me, that's all.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO User: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO.
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO President: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO, I AM PRESIDENT!
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.

8 minutes later

Juggle Employee: "How can I help you"
DDO President: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/9/2016 6:45:43 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 6:38:54 PM, imabench wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:27:52 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:22:30 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

They aren't communicating because nobody has put a gun to their head.

I agree with that - metaphorically. The idea that a guy from the site with the title "president" would make some huge difference is more than silly to me, that's all.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO User: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO.
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.

Juggle Receptionists: Hello, what can I do for you?
DDO President: I am here to speak with someone about one of your sites, DDO, I AM PRESIDENT!
Juggle Receptionists: OK, let me see if anyone has some time.

8 minutes later

Juggle Employee: "How can I help you"
DDO President: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com...

Right? And, to be honest, I think the "I AM PRESIDENT" would make the receptionist a little... Well, lets just say Napoleon complex.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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4/9/2016 9:03:45 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

No. From what I know Juggle were around for quite a while whilst there was a president and it never seemed to both them then. They just unexpectedly left. It was far too long after the establishment of the presidency for it to be a response to the initiation of it.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/9/2016 9:04:59 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 9:03:45 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

No. From what I know Juggle were around for quite a while whilst there was a president and it never seemed to both them then. They just unexpectedly left. It was far too long after the establishment of the presidency for it to be a response to the initiation of it.

Right, so why are you trying to make the point that communication with Juggle has anything to do with the presidential race, or office?
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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4/9/2016 9:09:01 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 9:04:59 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:03:45 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

No. From what I know Juggle were around for quite a while whilst there was a president and it never seemed to both them then. They just unexpectedly left. It was far too long after the establishment of the presidency for it to be a response to the initiation of it.

Right, so why are you trying to make the point that communication with Juggle has anything to do with the presidential race, or office?

Because the president has greater authority than a random DDO user does.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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4/9/2016 10:25:53 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 9:09:01 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:04:59 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:03:45 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

No. From what I know Juggle were around for quite a while whilst there was a president and it never seemed to both them then. They just unexpectedly left. It was far too long after the establishment of the presidency for it to be a response to the initiation of it.

Right, so why are you trying to make the point that communication with Juggle has anything to do with the presidential race, or office?

Because the president has greater authority than a random DDO user does.

What would lead you to think that? Do honestly think they care about the fictional title? If someone were to show up in their office to meet with someone, they would have virtualy no care that said person says he is president of anything.

This issue, contact with actual technical admin, has been terribly high on my list, and I can say at this point the president is not the magic cure for this issue.
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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4/9/2016 10:30:16 PM
Posted: 8 months ago
At 4/9/2016 10:25:53 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:09:01 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:04:59 PM, TBR wrote:
At 4/9/2016 9:03:45 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 4/9/2016 6:02:26 PM, TBR wrote:
Does anyone think that the title of "president" is what is stopping Juggle from communicating?

No. From what I know Juggle were around for quite a while whilst there was a president and it never seemed to both them then. They just unexpectedly left. It was far too long after the establishment of the presidency for it to be a response to the initiation of it.

Right, so why are you trying to make the point that communication with Juggle has anything to do with the presidential race, or office?

Because the president has greater authority than a random DDO user does.

What would lead you to think that? Do honestly think they care about the fictional title? If someone were to show up in their office to meet with someone, they would have virtualy no care that said person says he is president of anything.

Thy seemed to care about it when they were here. When TUF was president because he requested it he managed to get the select winner system set up and he also extended the character limit in the RFD box. That was all because he was president and in contact with Juggle.

This issue, contact with actual technical admin, has been terribly high on my list, and I can say at this point the president is not the magic cure for this issue.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy