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The problem with the Voting Discussions

TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/2/2016 3:41:33 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I've been mulling over and doing some introspection as to why I'm so riled up about this voting stuff. It's enough to bring me out of DDO Hibernation. Granted, there is my own history with respect to voting moderation and that certainly has colored my view, but there was something else nagging at the back of my mind that I couldn't place and I finally figured it out.

You all have lost sight of what voting is.

It's a donation. It's charity. For your benefit.

Judges aren't paid. It's volunteer work. They get nothing out of it. They aren't rewarded. In fact, if they get anything at all it's criticism and abuse.

And yet they do it. And no one thanks them.

Anyone that debates here should be thankful for getting any votes at all. Even votes that have poor RFDs or cause them to lose the debate. Be thankful. The point of being thankful is to be thankful for getting anything at all, not just being thankful for getting perfection.

In short: I find the majority of the DDO community to be entitled and ungrateful.

Voting here is like making a donation to a charity only to have your money denied because it wasn't large enough. If any charity did that to me I'd be keeping my money. That doesn't inspire me to donate more, it inspires me to keep that money in my wallet.

And yet what are the proposed solutions? Higher standards. Make those volunteers work more. That's not enough? Ok, let's pick the ones that don't volunteer as much as we think they should and make fun of them. That's the ticket. It's sickening.

You want some policy suggestions? How about this: Any debater that doesn't personally and individually thank the people that voted on their debate automatically loses. If both debaters fail to do it, the debate ends in a 0-0 tie.

Story Time:

This Saturday me and my kids went to the local park to pick up trash. We play there, I felt we should help keep it clean. About half way through the youngest got tired out and stopped picking up trash. Do I chastise him? No. Even though I made him go, even though he stopped half-way through, he did a good thing and I recognize that he did that.

I want him to recognize that doing what he did is a good thing and I will encourage any effort he makes toward that end, even if it wasn't the "best" effort. Because I want him to willingly go back and help again next time.

Yeah, he's a child.

But guess what: most of the people here on the site are young teenagers. From my POV, that is still a child.

Yes, malicious votes and votes that violate TOS should be removed. No argument there. But we should be accepting, encouraging, and thankful for any vote that isn't malicious.
FourTrouble
Posts: 12,757
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5/2/2016 3:56:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
I agree, with one exception -- debaters who want higher voting standards should be able to say so in the debate and have moderation honor those standards.
Geogeer
Posts: 4,244
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5/2/2016 4:02:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 3:41:33 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
I've been mulling over and doing some introspection as to why I'm so riled up about this voting stuff. It's enough to bring me out of DDO Hibernation. Granted, there is my own history with respect to voting moderation and that certainly has colored my view, but there was something else nagging at the back of my mind that I couldn't place and I finally figured it out.

You all have lost sight of what voting is.

It's a donation. It's charity. For your benefit.

Judges aren't paid. It's volunteer work. They get nothing out of it. They aren't rewarded. In fact, if they get anything at all it's criticism and abuse.

And yet they do it. And no one thanks them.

Anyone that debates here should be thankful for getting any votes at all. Even votes that have poor RFDs or cause them to lose the debate. Be thankful. The point of being thankful is to be thankful for getting anything at all, not just being thankful for getting perfection.

In short: I find the majority of the DDO community to be entitled and ungrateful.

Voting here is like making a donation to a charity only to have your money denied because it wasn't large enough. If any charity did that to me I'd be keeping my money. That doesn't inspire me to donate more, it inspires me to keep that money in my wallet.

And yet what are the proposed solutions? Higher standards. Make those volunteers work more. That's not enough? Ok, let's pick the ones that don't volunteer as much as we think they should and make fun of them. That's the ticket. It's sickening.

You want some policy suggestions? How about this: Any debater that doesn't personally and individually thank the people that voted on their debate automatically loses. If both debaters fail to do it, the debate ends in a 0-0 tie.

Story Time:

This Saturday me and my kids went to the local park to pick up trash. We play there, I felt we should help keep it clean. About half way through the youngest got tired out and stopped picking up trash. Do I chastise him? No. Even though I made him go, even though he stopped half-way through, he did a good thing and I recognize that he did that.

I want him to recognize that doing what he did is a good thing and I will encourage any effort he makes toward that end, even if it wasn't the "best" effort. Because I want him to willingly go back and help again next time.

Yeah, he's a child.

But guess what: most of the people here on the site are young teenagers. From my POV, that is still a child.

Yes, malicious votes and votes that violate TOS should be removed. No argument there. But we should be accepting, encouraging, and thankful for any vote that isn't malicious.

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Better a diamond with a flaw, than a pebble without.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/2/2016 4:04:07 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 3:56:22 PM, FourTrouble wrote:
I agree, with one exception -- debaters who want higher voting standards should be able to say so in the debate and have moderation honor those standards.

I agree, partially. If debaters want to specifically choose judges, then I think there is an expectation for a higher quality of vote (otherwise, why choose them). If they fail to provide that expected quality, I believe they are open for criticism on that front.

I'm on the fence as to whether moderators should enforce this or if it should just be an inherent risk in selecting someone to vote for you.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/2/2016 4:04:53 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/2/2016 4:02:45 PM, Geogeer wrote:

The perfect is the enemy of the good.

Better a diamond with a flaw, than a pebble without.

I like that. I'm stealing that. It's mine now. I made this.