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\\===*=== OFFICIAL: DK/TUF Platform ===*===//

donald.keller
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5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
\\====***== THE OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 TICKET ==***====//

Now that Campaigning Season is nearly upon us, it's time to post the Official DK/TUF Ticket.

Original Announcement: http://www.debate.org...
Ticket AMA: http://www.debate.org...
TL:DR Announcement: http://www.debate.org...

The page is being separated in three parts to organize it. It's not actually three posts of content. For a

\\====***== THE PHILOSOPHY ===***====//

The Philosophy of the DK/TUF ticket is simple... To use the presidency to encourage and help promote community-based activity. The Presidency won't be a force to create activity, but a force leading to a community that creates it's own activity. An example of this philosophy is the Varsity Program. Instead of having Administration members host and play games, the Varsity Program would train new mods out of normal community members. Those mods, in turn, will generate games as members of the community, not as members of the DK/TUF Administration.

The philosophy of the DK/TUF Ticket also centers around using the Presidency to centralize and organize debate over major issues and site reforms. One means of doing this would be through the Elective Administration.

The Ticket also centers around granting the Presidency legitimacy. Much of the problems facing the Presidency revolves around a 'lack of legitimate purpose.' This is also what fuels the Abolitionist Party. The Ticket hopes to fix this, and return legitimate purpose to the Presidency, fixing the biggest issue people have with the role... We hope to grant the role a purpose worth having. Now that Juggle's gone, the Presidency will either die without legitimacy, or survive as a role with a purpose.

And I ask each Abolitionist... How many of you want to see the Presidency, a site tradition, carried on, but just don't believe it's got enough of a purpose to? How many of you would rather see the Presidency regain a new reason for existing instead of having to see it go?
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
donald.keller
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5/5/2016 4:23:14 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
\\====***== THE PLATFORM ==***====//

The goals of the Platform are simple:

*** VOTING REFORM

In correlation with our Philosophy, all Voting Reform will be up for the community to vote on. What reforms are we hoping for? A written version of all of the Voting Laws. The proposed format would be similar to what Airmax posted earlier (Articles and Sections.) The thread would also center Voting Standards around the options available, instead of just the "official" standard. So you'd be introduced to all of the standards, like the Official, Opt-in, and all others.

The problem with most Voting Reform is that it's about replacing the current one-fits-all standard with another one-fits-all standard. We are aiming to rework it around all of the options debaters have, because no standard is one-fits-all. The Ticket would aim it's efforts to promoting a system that is option-friendly. As of right now, how long would you have to search to find the current Opt-in Standards? And how many new members (or even current members) would even know about it? We want to change that, and put options at the front of Moderation.

*** ELECTIVE ADMINISTRATION

Currently, the past few Presidents have created Administrations built around members they like. Instead, along with a few selected members to help the President, the Administration will instead be made up of Elected members.

Whenever a problem starts up, or debate over a new reform or rule starts up, the VP will create a thread to discuss the electing of a member from all sides to represent their concerns and arguments. The members would then discuss their concerns in both publicly organized threads (either made by the VP or the community) and in PMs meant to allow for discussion safe from forum drama. These centralized discussions would help avoid a lot of the drama involved, as frustrated members would have a central member they can discuss their problems with, and the discussion would be able to step over the random shouts and attacks of a normal forum argument.

As an example, take the Voting Reforms from a few months back. TUF and F-16 were the leading voices for/against the reform, and YYW is a leading voice against all current moderation... All three would be voted into the Administration, where they would have a PM to discuss, away from Forum drama, their side. They would also represent their sides in public threads. Unlike the DDO Conventions, the Elective Administration / Presidential Updates (which will host voting on big issues) would deal with major concerns and reforms as they come up, and not 6 months afterwards.

*** SPARKING DDO'S SOCIAL SIDE

The Social side of DDO, be it fanfictions, games, or the Facebook page, are declining (especially Fanfictions). Keeping in line with our Philosophy, the Presidency will not host it's own games or fanfictions (I will host fictions, but not on behalf of the Presidency). We will instead host programs built around promoting the community to do this itself. The problem with the Presidency hosting the games/fanfictions/etc ourselves is that if the activity and interest isn't already there for what already exists, it won't be there for our stuff either.

The Writer's Guild (renamed in respect towards Endarkened's group) would teach new writers on how to format a forum fanfiction, and on to create a story that fits both on a post and an episodic timeline. The Moderator Varsity Program (MVP) would teach a new generation of game hosts for FATE, Mafia, and new games. We need to introduce new games to the forums. As the Philosophy stated, promoting a community that makes it's own games/fanfictions/activity. We would use the Facebook page and Presidential Updates to encourage these activities. Which leads us to the Facebook page.

The DK/TUF Ticket hope to use the Facebook page often... Posting an update daily on new debates, fanfiction episodes, games, and more. The page has access to a lot of older members we'd like to reach back out to, and a potential host of new members. We would also work with other sites to collaborate on debates and competitions.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
donald.keller
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5/5/2016 4:25:17 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
\\===***== SUB-PLATFORM ==**===//

** Granting the Presidency Legitimacy.


The Facebook page has existed for over 3 years, and has been largely inactive. It's an example of a program that doesn't function right under normal community control. The page would require someone to post to it regularly every week of every year... It's too much effort. But someone who has the elected responsibility to operate it, and only has to for a short while, and chose to with the intentions of fully working on the page, would be perfect to lead to Facebook Page. AKA the President. The President would run for office knowing it's a responsibility of the run, and after 6 months, can pass it on to a new, refreshed and enthusiastic member.

The President would be responsibility for having the page manned, opening DDO up to (based on the friend's list of current members) a possible 45,000-55,000+ Facebook users, as well as older members like Danielle, RoyLatham, and Freedo, who are each on the page.

The President would also collaborate with other sites/groups to host competitions or events, opening the site up to many new members and activities. Such examples include Edeb8 (of course), CreateDebate, and groups like the Nerdfighters and Historum.

The Abolitionist Party's biggest issue with the Presidency is the lack of Legitimate Purpose. This Ticket would aim to change that. We hope to re-establish the purpose of the President, to redesign what it is. We don't need Juggle for the President to have legitimacy. Be it a liaison with other groups, a force to organize site problems for discussion, or acting leader of the Facebook page, the President will have a purpose that can not be fulfilled by the general community (as the past three years of the Facebook Page has shown) or are better fulfilled by one figure.

I know a lot of Abolitionists who would rather see the Presidency re-designed to have a purpose and a legitimate role on DDO, as opposed to having to abolish it.

** Contacting Juggle

This has been a huge issue in the past... Many have promised to email/write Juggle. However, I am less than an hour away from them, and can essentially visit their HQ. This would either be to drop off a letter, or to see about talking with members like Stephanie and Ryan themselves. However, as mentioned throughout the Ticket, we fully intend on being able to help DDO with or without Juggle.

** Current Administration Programs

We are going to continue promoting a few programs from the current Administration... To be specific, the Beginner's Tournament and the push to help 1Harder with the DDO Wiki.

\\===***== FINAL REMARKS ==***===//

The DK/TUF Ticket will NOT partake in drama. If a conversation devolves into a fight, we will simply stop responding to you. The ticket will only engage in discussion, not battles over who can be the least decent person.

I will also be buying a Mic so I can broadcast actual videos for the announcements and Presidential Updates. I have no intentions of being a hidden President, communicating with the community from behind a profile page.

So if you want to make fun of my accent, vote DK/TUF!

\\===**== END ==**===//
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:


could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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5/5/2016 4:44:11 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

You still haven't responded to me. If your campaign is capable of reviving debates without being elected, your attempt to get elected isn't an attempt to solve this problem at all.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
imabench
Posts: 21,219
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5/5/2016 4:45:46 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:


could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

Both ColeTrain and DK have proven that that claim is false

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

Blind/Stupid 2016
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:46:22 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:44:11 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

You still haven't responded to me. If your campaign is capable of reviving debates without being elected, your attempt to get elected isn't an attempt to solve this problem at all.

Tej, I am asking DK a question.

If you've listend to me, you would know that our platform is being released tomorrow. I will pm you right now by the way.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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5/5/2016 4:47:19 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:46:22 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:44:11 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

You still haven't responded to me. If your campaign is capable of reviving debates without being elected, your attempt to get elected isn't an attempt to solve this problem at all.

Tej, I am asking DK a question.

I'm aware, and I also know what that leads to: that your campaign is the best one to fix the debate section. I'm challenging that, i.e. I'm defending DK.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:49:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:47:19 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:46:22 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:44:11 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

You still haven't responded to me. If your campaign is capable of reviving debates without being elected, your attempt to get elected isn't an attempt to solve this problem at all.

Tej, I am asking DK a question.

I'm aware, and I also know what that leads to: that your campaign is the best one to fix the debate section. I'm challenging that, i.e. I'm defending DK.

I'm not attacking him, I'm merely asking him a question. I'm quite positive be can defend, and awnser questions requarding his own campaign.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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5/5/2016 4:49:43 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:49:04 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:47:19 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:46:22 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:44:11 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

You still haven't responded to me. If your campaign is capable of reviving debates without being elected, your attempt to get elected isn't an attempt to solve this problem at all.

Tej, I am asking DK a question.

I'm aware, and I also know what that leads to: that your campaign is the best one to fix the debate section. I'm challenging that, i.e. I'm defending DK.

I'm not attacking him, I'm merely asking him a question. I'm quite positive be can defend, and awnser questions requarding his own campaign.

I know. And I'm preempting what that leads to.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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5/5/2016 4:53:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:
And I ask each Abolitionist... How many of you want to see the Presidency, a site tradition, carried on, but just don't believe it's got enough of a purpose to? How many of you would rather see the Presidency regain a new reason for existing instead of having to see it go?

This isn't a compelling argument against the presidency at all. I want the site to have development, and I don't care what the means to that end is (insofar as the means is acceptable). They can be Conventions or they can be the presidency - whichever brings greater benefit to the site. "Site tradition" is irrelevant.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
donald.keller
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5/5/2016 4:53:57 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Because Juggle is a business... And like all businesses, they don't respond to a random member of another group. They are only likely to respond to the chosen liaison of that group (be it the owner or an elected representative of the group.) And because, as President, I'd actually have the right to speak on behalf of DDO... Speaking on behalf of the community prior would have been outside of my rights.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:56:37 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:53:57 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Because Juggle is a business... And like all businesses, they don't respond to a random member of another group. They are only likely to respond to the chosen liaison of that group (be it the owner or an elected representative of the group.) And because, as President, I'd actually have the right to speak on behalf of DDO... Speaking on behalf of the community prior would have been outside of my rights.

Do you honestly think Juggle will think of the president of DDO more important than any other member? The presidency is set up by the DDO community, not Juggle.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
TUF
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5/5/2016 4:58:15 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Didn't wylted mention a couple of times he was going to do that? ;-)
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 4:59:51 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:58:15 AM, TUF wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Didn't wylted mention a couple of times he was going to do that? ;-)

I'm not Wylted, now am I?
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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5/5/2016 5:00:55 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:59:51 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:58:15 AM, TUF wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Didn't wylted mention a couple of times he was going to do that? ;-)

I'm not Wylted, now am I?

Or are you? #wyltedmulti
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
Rosalie
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5/5/2016 5:01:25 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:00:55 AM, TUF wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:59:51 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:58:15 AM, TUF wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Didn't wylted mention a couple of times he was going to do that? ;-)

I'm not Wylted, now am I?

Or are you? #wyltedmulti

We both know that's not true.
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

"Criticism is easier to take when you realize that the only people who aren't criticized are those who don't take risks." - Donald Trump

Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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5/5/2016 5:01:47 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:53:55 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:
And I ask each Abolitionist... How many of you want to see the Presidency, a site tradition, carried on, but just don't believe it's got enough of a purpose to? How many of you would rather see the Presidency regain a new reason for existing instead of having to see it go?

This isn't a compelling argument against the presidency at all. I want the site to have development, and I don't care what the means to that end is (insofar as the means is acceptable). They can be Conventions or they can be the presidency - whichever brings greater benefit to the site. "Site tradition" is irrelevant.

Many people do care about site tradition...
And even then, I never said it being a site tradition is why we should keep it. I said most would rather site tradition be the most beneficial choice. Being a site tradition isn't why you should keep it... It's simply why it'd be more enjoyable if it was the right choice. Like having to pick between Cake and Vegetables... You want Cake because you like it more (in this scenario, at least) but you're going to pick the Vegetables because it's still the right choice... In this case, the Ticket aims to make the Cake the right choice.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
donald.keller
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5/5/2016 5:11:13 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:56:37 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:53:57 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Because Juggle is a business... And like all businesses, they don't respond to a random member of another group. They are only likely to respond to the chosen liaison of that group (be it the owner or an elected representative of the group.) And because, as President, I'd actually have the right to speak on behalf of DDO... Speaking on behalf of the community prior would have been outside of my rights.

Do you honestly think Juggle will think of the president of DDO more important than any other member? The presidency is set up by the DDO community, not Juggle.

That wasn't the point of your original question, but sure... It's not the fact that it's the President... It's the fact that it's the elected representative of the whole community. It's not important who set the Presidency up, since I never said it's the selected representative of Juggle... It's the selected representative of DDO...

Stop by their HQ enough times with a letter, and you have a far higher chance of getting a response... Although, since it's me doing the visiting, and not you, it's not a concern whether you believe it's worth my time. If you don't believe Juggle will respond, don't visit them. Me visiting Juggle doesn't hurt my presidency at all... It's not a negative. It'll either be a neutral aspect, or a positive aspect, of a presidency. But not a negative.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
TUF
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5/5/2016 5:15:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:11:13 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:56:37 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:53:57 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:41:03 AM, Rosalie wrote:
Also, you mention that you only live an hour away from juggle, which you said on multiple occasions.

Why all of a sudden are you so willing to go to them now? Why not 1, 2, 3 months ago?

Because Juggle is a business... And like all businesses, they don't respond to a random member of another group. They are only likely to respond to the chosen liaison of that group (be it the owner or an elected representative of the group.) And because, as President, I'd actually have the right to speak on behalf of DDO... Speaking on behalf of the community prior would have been outside of my rights.

Do you honestly think Juggle will think of the president of DDO more important than any other member? The presidency is set up by the DDO community, not Juggle.

That wasn't the point of your original question, but sure... It's not the fact that it's the President... It's the fact that it's the elected representative of the whole community. It's not important who set the Presidency up, since I never said it's the selected representative of Juggle... It's the selected representative of DDO...

Stop by their HQ enough times with a letter, and you have a far higher chance of getting a response... Although, since it's me doing the visiting, and not you, it's not a concern whether you believe it's worth my time. If you don't believe Juggle will respond, don't visit them. Me visiting Juggle doesn't hurt my presidency at all... It's not a negative. It'll either be a neutral aspect, or a positive aspect, of a presidency. But not a negative.

Good point. I really don't see the harm in confronting juggle or why anyone would try to bring it up as a harm to your ticket.
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lannan13
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5/5/2016 6:32:03 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:


could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

When did we ever have 10-15 pages of debates in the challenge section?
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Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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donald.keller
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5/5/2016 6:35:04 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 6:32:03 AM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:39:15 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:


could you agree that the activity of debates taking place in the past 6 months has declined? I mean, we use to have 10-15 pages of open debates, now, if you look, there is only like 3-5 pages.

When did we ever have 10-15 pages of debates in the challenge section?

Never... But even if we did, the use of the Facebook Page, and the use of the Presidency to reach out to other groups/sites for collaboration, is so far the only campaign point through out the whole election that promises to increase activity and users on the the site.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

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ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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5/5/2016 11:48:48 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
I'll preface this by saying that I like and respect both of you, and I'm not *against* you as much as I am "not for" the presidency. Obviously I'm drawing a very fine distinction between those two, but I'm open to changing my mind -- assuming I'm even on the website at the time of the election, which is probably unlikely, but at least by swaying me you might be able to sway some other people who otherwise may have voted for Bench. Sound good?

So, I think this whole "election" thing is completely and utterly pointless, akin to a fourth grader running for class president promising free pizza parties and a reduced homework load. Of course, I'm on-again, off-again the site (on again for about 20 minutes, I guess), so what does my opinion matter? I would tend to think a lot of people agree with me, and thus are supporting Bench, but you seem like a genuine guy, and I haven't any doubt that you and TUF -- both decent, respectable, intelligent people -- could do a whole lot of good for the website. So I'll give you the chance for a reasonable discussion over what is, most likely, the chief opposition to your campaign -- I'd tend to think most people who support the idea of the presidency are already with you (though 1harder's recent announcement may change some minds; his platform impressed me, I'll admit).

With that said -- and establishing that I'm not *against* you as much as I am "not for" the existence of the office (I do think that's an important distinction to make) -- just let me pose it to both you and TUF: Why is the title of "DDO Membership President" any different from being, say, hall monitor in the second grade? What can you do as the DDO president that you couldn't, or at least wouldn't, do as a regular member? Why in the world do people get so bloody antsy over a silly title, when they could be contributing to the website and, you know, actually "returning DDO to its former glory!" (or, as a certain presidential candidate would say, "making DDO great again!)?

For instance, I've seen both of you contribute to the website in truly impressive ways -- TUF through his live-debate tournaments and DK through his census debates, and even with that I'm just barely scratching the surface. Both of you did this WITHOUT any formal leadership role. I have every reason to think you would continue to contribute meaningfully to the website even without being president and VP or if, heaven forbid, those roles didn't exist. And I think that's great. So what's the moving part in this equation?

With respect to Juggle, what added authority is there to being elected a liaison of the community ? As I word that question, it sounds rather silly, since DK's logic is at least on its surface sound: a mob of angry DDO'ers might not be able to get their attention, but maybe peaceably assembling and electing a diplomatic, reasoned spokesman (which I have every reason to believe both he and TUF are) who approaches the issue from a strictly business perspective -- DK's a conservative guy! Surely he buys into Adam Smith's idea of rational self interest! -- could get their attention, right?

Sorry, guys, but I just don't buy it. This is an online community of people Juggle has never met and has no interest in meeting. The "president" of the website, as far as I'm concerned, holds no more power than a random guy screaming on the street that the rent is too damn high, or a preacher on a college campus screaming that everyone is going to burn eternally if they don't repent (the last one is a bit extreme, but I think you get the point). The core users of this website -- people who debate, participate in the forums, play and mod mafia, etc. -- aren't their chief source of revenue: it's randoms who spam the polls (aren't these down at the moment?) and opinions section. All they really need to do is *exist* and keep the URL running in order to profit.

So, let's take this from a different angle -- and I think I've taken enough business classes to do this, though feel free to tell me I'm full of sh1t at any time; I can take it. Let's pretend that I'm your business professor and I've asked the two of you to construct a business plan and pitch it to me, a potential investor in your start-up. Obviously I'm not asking you to run numbers through a spreadsheet -- though maybe that'll convince Juggle; who knows? I'm pretty good at math, and would be more than willing to help you down the road should you need it, but I digress -- but I'd like a general idea of what you plan to do, how you plan to do it, what arguments you intend to make, and why you believe your plan will or may work, while virtually all other efforts by good-intentioned, respectable people have not.

Now, DK might say that the Juggle endeavor is only a possible positive -- otherwise it's a zero -- and could not be a negative. In a sense he's right, but of course I'm an economist, and what good is an economist if he can't be an "on one hand, on the other hand" contrarian? There's probably an associated opportunity cost to this: that need not be however much it takes to physically transport yourself to the Juggle HQ, but I think it takes a not insubstantial form: that is bidding upward the community's expectations beyond reasonable limits. In other words, we could spend our time thinking about and debating more realistic approaches, but the tiny glimmer of hope that perhaps you could reinvigorate Juggle's interest in the website would overshadow those other initiatives, if only marginally. Not to mention, this is pretty much a "last ditch" effort. If this doesn't work, what hope could we possibly have for the future? What kind of message does that send to the community?

Now, maybe you'll say, as most campaigns do, that Juggle doesn't really matter that much: it's all about the community! Okay, then here's the operative question: if it's about the community, and about "listening to the community," why you? Why not [insert member here]? When Max ran for reelection, for instance, he didn't even have a platform: he said his ideas were the community's ideas, and I think he was onto something. No matter who is actually "in power," if people want something enough that they're able to vocalize it and convince people, almost anyone could actually implement it. Heck, assuming it doesn't involve Juggle, they could implement it themselves. So, by voting DK and TUF, in what meaningful way am I voting for your platform -- which almost anyone else who has read this thread could implement now that it's public knowledge -- instead of the two people behind it, whose participation on the site is nonunique to this discussion (i.e., even without being president, you'll both participate on the website, so this isn't an explicit, tangible benefit of your being president and VP)?

I think that's enough for now. Again, I completely respect you two and what you're trying to do here, but you can color me a skeptic as to the merits of this office.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
Dragon_of_Christ
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5/5/2016 11:56:27 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:22:31 AM, donald.keller wrote:
\\====***== THE OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 TICKET ==***====//


Now that Campaigning Season is nearly upon us, it's time to post the Official DK/TUF Ticket.

Original Announcement: http://www.debate.org...
Ticket AMA: http://www.debate.org...
TL:DR Announcement: http://www.debate.org...

The page is being separated in three parts to organize it. It's not actually three posts of content. For a

\\====***== THE PHILOSOPHY ===***====//

The Philosophy of the DK/TUF ticket is simple... To use the presidency to encourage and help promote community-based activity. The Presidency won't be a force to create activity, but a force leading to a community that creates it's own activity. An example of this philosophy is the Varsity Program. Instead of having Administration members host and play games, the Varsity Program would train new mods out of normal community members. Those mods, in turn, will generate games as members of the community, not as members of the DK/TUF Administration.

The philosophy of the DK/TUF Ticket also centers around using the Presidency to centralize and organize debate over major issues and site reforms. One means of doing this would be through the Elective Administration.

The Ticket also centers around granting the Presidency legitimacy. Much of the problems facing the Presidency revolves around a 'lack of legitimate purpose.' This is also what fuels the Abolitionist Party. The Ticket hopes to fix this, and return legitimate purpose to the Presidency, fixing the biggest issue people have with the role... We hope to grant the role a purpose worth having. Now that Juggle's gone, the Presidency will either die without legitimacy, or survive as a role with a purpose.

And I ask each Abolitionist... How many of you want to see the Presidency, a site tradition, carried on, but just don't believe it's got enough of a purpose to? How many of you would rather see the Presidency regain a new reason for existing instead of having to see it go?

Sounds great.

If only i could vote...
But we must not let imabench the antipresident to obtain office.

I think though what the problem is what else you could do with the presidency.

What are your other intentions?
Jesus loves you.

////////////

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tejretics
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5/5/2016 12:11:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 11:48:48 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:

Excellent post.

I'll note another major impact DK and TUF had without being elected: they were responsible for the most recent voting reform (i.e. stopping one-point votes), and they weren't in any position of power. They brought about what was essentially a "convention" (read: a referendum) and ensured voting reform.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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5/5/2016 12:13:21 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:11:45 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 11:48:48 AM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:

Excellent post.

Why, thank you!

I'll note another major impact DK and TUF had without being elected: they were responsible for the most recent voting reform (i.e. stopping one-point votes), and they weren't in any position of power. They brought about what was essentially a "convention" (read: a referendum) and ensured voting reform.

This is very true. I think it certainly contributes to their credibility as excellent members, and if we were to elect a president, surely they'd have a great case to make as to their qualifications. But, of course, I'm interested in the "moving part" in the equation.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
tejretics
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5/5/2016 12:14:27 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:13:21 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
This is very true. I think it certainly contributes to their credibility as excellent members, and if we were to elect a president, surely they'd have a great case to make as to their qualifications. But, of course, I'm interested in the "moving part" in the equation.

I think that very example strengthens the idea that changes can be brought about without the presidency.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
ResponsiblyIrresponsible
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5/5/2016 12:15:46 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 12:14:27 PM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/5/2016 12:13:21 PM, ResponsiblyIrresponsible wrote:
This is very true. I think it certainly contributes to their credibility as excellent members, and if we were to elect a president, surely they'd have a great case to make as to their qualifications. But, of course, I'm interested in the "moving part" in the equation.

I think that very example strengthens the idea that changes can be brought about without the presidency.

I couldn't agree more. If DK could make a compelling case with respect to Juggle, perhaps then he'd be able to convince me. Absent that, it's a hard sell.
~ResponsiblyIrresponsible

DDO's Economics Messiah
tejretics
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5/5/2016 12:17:13 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
DK, I have a question. Will the two of you strive to implement these programs regardless of whether you are elected?
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass