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Juggle and DDO, an expose

imabench
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5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
Juggle, our benevolent overlords, have for some time now been more like our non-existent hard to find anywhere overlords(?). Turns out, there are several reasons, all extremely concerning and very bad news for us (or those of us hoping Juggle returns)

1) DDO apparently has 5 older brothers... We are the runt of the litter for Juggle

On Juggle's website where they try to brag about how many sites they own and operate, our beloved DDO that we spend all of our spare time on comes in ranked at..... 6th..... http://www.juggle.com...

Naturally the runt of the litter doenst get that much attention, but if you check out Juggle's page where they try to hype up DDO, it gets even more apparent how little they care. Now you can spot some mistakes right off the bat at first glance.... They say DDO has 1 million forum posts, we actually have 2.4 million. The screenshots they use for DDO still have the banners that havent been around in years now, and the main debate they use is one from LordKnuckle, who hasnt been online in over a year. http://www.juggle.com...

Here's the kicker though. For the screenshot to show how a user's homepage looks like, Juggle used a profile belonging to Marc Harrison.

There is no account named Marc Harrison on DDO

http://www.juggle.com...

It gets even better. The user Marc Harrison doesnt exist, but everything else about Marc Harrison's profile matches that of the user Brian_eggleston

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.juggle.com...

Not only did Juggle invent a profile that doesnt exist to advertise DDO on their site, they used someone ELSES profile, replaced the name and profile picture, and check the age that the profiles were made. The original Brian Eggelston account was made 8 years ago, but in the picture, it says his account was made 3 years ago

Juggle's absence from DDO has been an event that was 5 whole years in the making

2) Juggles other children are doing WAY better than we are.

If DDO is the runt of the litter, then Juggle's 'star child' is OneSpace, a networking site similar to linkedin of some sort that has been used by Facebook, Staples, Sears, Overstock, Hallmark, Ebay, Orbitz. By hooking up big companies with freelance contractors, Juggle gets connections with big-name brands and makes a massive amount of money by raking in subscriptions from contractors to be listed on the site, and also from companies to access the workers available...... Meaning DDO in a year may only being in as much money that OneSource makes in a day, at best.

http://www.onespace.com...
http://www.onespace.com...

Meanwhile at Transcribe, the second child after OneSource, Transcribe is a website that offers transcription services to whoever wants information in writing or on paper. Their clients include Adobe, World Wildlife Foundation, AT&T, Hilton Hotels, Microsoft, and Netflix among others.

https://www.transcribe.com...

Juggle obviously isnt going to sink time into our site when some of Juggle's other children/businesses are raking in far more money on a daily basis than this site does on a monthly or yearly basis. Not only is DDO just not interesting to Juggle, Juggle has a hell of a lot more reasons to sink time and resources into managing OTHER sites they run.

3) DDO doenst make it in the news

The only times DDO ever pops up in the outside world is when some article randomly cites a debate or poll on our site that they use to make a point about a random argument. If you glance at Juggle's 'Press Room', that lists all of the times their sites show up somewhere in the outside world, DDO doesnt even make it on the list. The Press Room is DOMINATED by Juggle's star child: CrowdSource

http://www.juggle.com...

The only time DDO appears on the list is one time, 4th post from the very bottom, where they announce that THEY ACQUIRED US, IN 2011.

Juggle bought the site 5 years ago, and as shown before, thats the exact same amount of time Juggle really stopped caring about the site (or at least about advertising it).

If you click on the link to see the announcement, guess what, ITS BLANK. If you manage to get past the loading issues, you'll arrive at a completely blank page where Juggle announced it acquired DDO (back then known as DDC, debate dot com)

Juggle simply does not care about the site, Juggle has no reason to care about the site compared to other sites they run, and DDO does not do anything to warrant Juggle's attention to improve the site.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
PetersSmith
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5/5/2016 5:57:27 AM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:

And how is this new news?
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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imabench
Posts: 21,206
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5/5/2016 3:34:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:57:27 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:

And how is this new news?

People think that Juggle isnt paying attention to the site because of sheer incompetence. The reality is that the reasons go much deeper then that. DDO is up against very stiff competition for Juggle's attention that we (DDO) simply cannot compete against, meaning that we are very likely to never regain significant activity from Juggle on DDO ever again.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
SkyLeach
Posts: 206
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5/5/2016 4:02:31 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
some of this info is new, but none of it is surprising.

I'm thinking of making a competitive and far more structured formal debate-oriented site designed to encourage real discussion and effectively eliminate trolling or moronic discussion to easily ignored background noise.

Lots of work, not sure how much I want to get into it... it's not so much about money as real interest potential. Money (support costs really) would be along a research-like vector, if the site is successful, such as Pew, only geared far more towards accuracy and integrity than volume polling.
Math is just another language, however one without analogy.

- http://arxiv.org...
famousdebater
Posts: 3,938
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5/5/2016 4:03:17 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:
This entire post was a waste of your time. We are all well aware of this fact. The point is that many of the candidates running have profitable techniques that they wish to consult Juggle on. If we can convince Juggle that they can make more money through updating DDO than they will through leaving it then they'll be likely to update it. Even if it's very infrequent.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Vaarka
Posts: 7,533
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5/5/2016 4:05:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:03:17 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:
This entire post was a waste of your time. We are all well aware of this fact. The point is that many of the candidates running have profitable techniques that they wish to consult Juggle on. If we can convince Juggle that they can make more money through updating DDO than they will through leaving it then they'll be likely to update it. Even if it's very infrequent.

We need someone on DDO to work at juggle, get the coding passwords for DDO, and then secretly update it.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

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imabench
Posts: 21,206
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5/5/2016 4:06:19 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:03:17 PM, famousdebater wrote:

If we can convince Juggle that they can make more money through updating DDO than they will through leaving it then they'll be likely to update it.

The entire post indicates that that is not ever going to be the case since Juggle doesnt care about the site and DDO doesnt make Juggle nearly enough money to gain their attention

Blind/Stupid 2016
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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5/5/2016 4:15:05 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 4:06:19 PM, imabench wrote:
At 5/5/2016 4:03:17 PM, famousdebater wrote:

If we can convince Juggle that they can make more money through updating DDO than they will through leaving it then they'll be likely to update it.

The entire post indicates that that is not ever going to be the case since Juggle doesnt care about the site and DDO doesnt make Juggle nearly enough money to gain their attention

Blind/Stupid 2016

Yea. DDO is on auto-pilot for them. Like right into a mountain, but still
Dragon_of_Christ
Posts: 1,293
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5/5/2016 7:37:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
Wait, we are only second to last.

There is a 7th if you click the tiny see all.

It is some business management company.
Jesus loves you.

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Bob13
Posts: 708
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5/5/2016 11:06:22 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:
Juggle, our benevolent overlords, have for some time now been more like our non-existent hard to find anywhere overlords(?). Turns out, there are several reasons, all extremely concerning and very bad news for us (or those of us hoping Juggle returns)

1) DDO apparently has 5 older brothers... We are the runt of the litter for Juggle

On Juggle's website where they try to brag about how many sites they own and operate, our beloved DDO that we spend all of our spare time on comes in ranked at..... 6th..... http://www.juggle.com...

Naturally the runt of the litter doenst get that much attention, but if you check out Juggle's page where they try to hype up DDO, it gets even more apparent how little they care. Now you can spot some mistakes right off the bat at first glance.... They say DDO has 1 million forum posts, we actually have 2.4 million. The screenshots they use for DDO still have the banners that havent been around in years now, and the main debate they use is one from LordKnuckle, who hasnt been online in over a year. http://www.juggle.com...

Here's the kicker though. For the screenshot to show how a user's homepage looks like, Juggle used a profile belonging to Marc Harrison.

There is no account named Marc Harrison on DDO

http://www.juggle.com...

It gets even better. The user Marc Harrison doesnt exist, but everything else about Marc Harrison's profile matches that of the user Brian_eggleston

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.juggle.com...

Not only did Juggle invent a profile that doesnt exist to advertise DDO on their site, they used someone ELSES profile, replaced the name and profile picture, and check the age that the profiles were made. The original Brian Eggelston account was made 8 years ago, but in the picture, it says his account was made 3 years ago

Juggle's absence from DDO has been an event that was 5 whole years in the making



2) Juggles other children are doing WAY better than we are.

If DDO is the runt of the litter, then Juggle's 'star child' is OneSpace, a networking site similar to linkedin of some sort that has been used by Facebook, Staples, Sears, Overstock, Hallmark, Ebay, Orbitz. By hooking up big companies with freelance contractors, Juggle gets connections with big-name brands and makes a massive amount of money by raking in subscriptions from contractors to be listed on the site, and also from companies to access the workers available...... Meaning DDO in a year may only being in as much money that OneSource makes in a day, at best.

http://www.onespace.com...
http://www.onespace.com...

Meanwhile at Transcribe, the second child after OneSource, Transcribe is a website that offers transcription services to whoever wants information in writing or on paper. Their clients include Adobe, World Wildlife Foundation, AT&T, Hilton Hotels, Microsoft, and Netflix among others.

https://www.transcribe.com...

Juggle obviously isnt going to sink time into our site when some of Juggle's other children/businesses are raking in far more money on a daily basis than this site does on a monthly or yearly basis. Not only is DDO just not interesting to Juggle, Juggle has a hell of a lot more reasons to sink time and resources into managing OTHER sites they run.



3) DDO doenst make it in the news

The only times DDO ever pops up in the outside world is when some article randomly cites a debate or poll on our site that they use to make a point about a random argument. If you glance at Juggle's 'Press Room', that lists all of the times their sites show up somewhere in the outside world, DDO doesnt even make it on the list. The Press Room is DOMINATED by Juggle's star child: CrowdSource

http://www.juggle.com...

The only time DDO appears on the list is one time, 4th post from the very bottom, where they announce that THEY ACQUIRED US, IN 2011.

Juggle bought the site 5 years ago, and as shown before, thats the exact same amount of time Juggle really stopped caring about the site (or at least about advertising it).

If you click on the link to see the announcement, guess what, ITS BLANK. If you manage to get past the loading issues, you'll arrive at a completely blank page where Juggle announced it acquired DDO (back then known as DDC, debate dot com)

Juggle simply does not care about the site, Juggle has no reason to care about the site compared to other sites they run, and DDO does not do anything to warrant Juggle's attention to improve the site.

We need Phil to come back.
I don't have a signature. :-)
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/5/2016 11:49:45 PM
Posted: 7 months ago
At 5/5/2016 5:46:41 AM, imabench wrote:
Juggle, our benevolent overlords, have for some time now been more like our non-existent hard to find anywhere overlords(?). Turns out, there are several reasons, all extremely concerning and very bad news for us (or those of us hoping Juggle returns)

1) DDO apparently has 5 older brothers... We are the runt of the litter for Juggle

On Juggle's website where they try to brag about how many sites they own and operate, our beloved DDO that we spend all of our spare time on comes in ranked at..... 6th..... http://www.juggle.com...

Naturally the runt of the litter doenst get that much attention, but if you check out Juggle's page where they try to hype up DDO, it gets even more apparent how little they care. Now you can spot some mistakes right off the bat at first glance.... They say DDO has 1 million forum posts, we actually have 2.4 million. The screenshots they use for DDO still have the banners that havent been around in years now, and the main debate they use is one from LordKnuckle, who hasnt been online in over a year. http://www.juggle.com...

Here's the kicker though. For the screenshot to show how a user's homepage looks like, Juggle used a profile belonging to Marc Harrison.

There is no account named Marc Harrison on DDO

http://www.juggle.com...

It gets even better. The user Marc Harrison doesnt exist, but everything else about Marc Harrison's profile matches that of the user Brian_eggleston

http://www.debate.org...
http://www.juggle.com...

Not only did Juggle invent a profile that doesnt exist to advertise DDO on their site, they used someone ELSES profile, replaced the name and profile picture, and check the age that the profiles were made. The original Brian Eggelston account was made 8 years ago, but in the picture, it says his account was made 3 years ago

Juggle's absence from DDO has been an event that was 5 whole years in the making



2) Juggles other children are doing WAY better than we are.

If DDO is the runt of the litter, then Juggle's 'star child' is OneSpace, a networking site similar to linkedin of some sort that has been used by Facebook, Staples, Sears, Overstock, Hallmark, Ebay, Orbitz. By hooking up big companies with freelance contractors, Juggle gets connections with big-name brands and makes a massive amount of money by raking in subscriptions from contractors to be listed on the site, and also from companies to access the workers available...... Meaning DDO in a year may only being in as much money that OneSource makes in a day, at best.

http://www.onespace.com...
http://www.onespace.com...

Meanwhile at Transcribe, the second child after OneSource, Transcribe is a website that offers transcription services to whoever wants information in writing or on paper. Their clients include Adobe, World Wildlife Foundation, AT&T, Hilton Hotels, Microsoft, and Netflix among others.

https://www.transcribe.com...

Juggle obviously isnt going to sink time into our site when some of Juggle's other children/businesses are raking in far more money on a daily basis than this site does on a monthly or yearly basis. Not only is DDO just not interesting to Juggle, Juggle has a hell of a lot more reasons to sink time and resources into managing OTHER sites they run.



3) DDO doenst make it in the news

The only times DDO ever pops up in the outside world is when some article randomly cites a debate or poll on our site that they use to make a point about a random argument. If you glance at Juggle's 'Press Room', that lists all of the times their sites show up somewhere in the outside world, DDO doesnt even make it on the list. The Press Room is DOMINATED by Juggle's star child: CrowdSource

http://www.juggle.com...

The only time DDO appears on the list is one time, 4th post from the very bottom, where they announce that THEY ACQUIRED US, IN 2011.

Juggle bought the site 5 years ago, and as shown before, thats the exact same amount of time Juggle really stopped caring about the site (or at least about advertising it).

If you click on the link to see the announcement, guess what, ITS BLANK. If you manage to get past the loading issues, you'll arrive at a completely blank page where Juggle announced it acquired DDO (back then known as DDC, debate dot com)

Juggle simply does not care about the site, Juggle has no reason to care about the site compared to other sites they run, and DDO does not do anything to warrant Juggle's attention to improve the site.

Of course they don't care about the site. It is impossible to feed us mass marketed info on this site for two reasons.
[1] Members of DDO are independent thinkers - for the most part, and are more likely to click on something if it recommended by a friend, than if advertisers create even the most catchy ads.
[2] Without a complete makeover DDO doesn't have space for ads.

These are factors that made me fall in love with DDO. It is the only place that i have found on the internet where dialog (in forums and/or debates) is the main focus, and individual personalities are apparent after even a short amount of time spent on DDO.

It sometimes worries me when members want to bug Juggle for updates because it could cause them to overhaul the site - and include annoying intrusive ads in the process of any updates. I think we should give thanks where we have a site with a good balance of moderation and freedom of expression, and accept the glitches as the trade off for not having to endure pesky ads. I've even thought that Juggle is trying to kill the site, to justify eliminating it - if too many user leave the site, since DDO isn't highly profitable.