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**Harder/Solon platform Part 2: Outreach**

1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 2:44:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
**This will be a two-part post**

Hello, DDO. This is the second platform thread I"ve created in my bid for the role of the Presidency. While the race has recently gotten attention for dramatic reasons, I hope to work back to normalcy. For the good of the Presidency, we must be sure to put an emphasis on reason at all times.

With that said, one of my main concerns for the site moving forward is the ability to bring new users in as well as turn them into contributors. This issue is much bigger than the Presidency, and it must be handled with care and due diligence.

I take great issue with DK's platform on the point of new user outreach and mentorship. Not once in his community platform thread does he talk about the importance to get new users. Instead, he puts most of his focus on using the Facebook page to post on and attract new members. Former active members remember what the site was like, and why they left. Some people might be able to stick around here for many years, but for most DDO is a temporary experience. One that dwells on what is done is not reliable for building the site. The fact of the matter is that the site often doesn't give the same feel as it once did for old members.

Without Outreach, DDO risks becoming stale

In an otherwise extremely controversial thread, Maikuru made an observation that, these days, he can expect exactly what he'll see specific members post in a thread.

At 2/22/2016 4:37:56 PM, Maikuru wrote:
At 2/22/2016 4:23:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 2/22/2016 3:22:07 PM, Maikuru wrote:
It's not totally gone, though. It's just really died down. I think some of that is a membership issues, too. I'm sure overall site membership has increased, but I feel like the active user pool is smaller than a few years ago.

The majority of posts are made by about 20 people.

I was thinking about this the other day. If I see a new thread posted, I can pretty much anticipate who will post in it, as well as the general gist of what they're going to say. I guess that has its advantages, but there isn't much learning going on. It's more of a play, with everyone saying their lines. I miss the excitement and diversity of having a much wider array of thoughtful contributors.

I was legitimately interested by this concept. DDO has largely become a place where we have a small, main crew - and everything else is fleeting. The following are the twenty most prolific active posters, excluding the exclusively religion forum members and including second account post counts:

YYW, Bsh1, TUF, Danielle, Drafterman, Lannan13, Drafterman, Imabench, Buddamoose, Wylted, F-16, Bossy, ESocialBookworm, Thett3, XLAV, Airmax, FT, Harder (me), Dylancatlow, and Mikal

The total number of posts at the time of me writing this: 299,278. Overall non-religion forum posts: 1,891,470. So, about 15.8% of posts ever made on DDO have been made by the top 20 active users in terms of post count.

A Stale DDO

The point of me giving these numbers is to show that a huge amount of the content is controlled by a very small group of people on the site. This is why when YYW left temporarily, sections of the site such as the politics forum suffered in content creation immensely. So, how do we combat the inevitable? Do we kick the can down the road for a bit, or do we try to spice the site up with as much new blood as we can? For a successful DDO in the long run, we must have more quality members spring up than what regularly occurs.

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Implications of DK not caring for these programs

So why is does it matter that DK has not said a word on continuing this community program? His campaign points are promises of instant gratification. He says he will attempt to bring back old members by using the Facebook page. That's nice, but he can already post on the Facebook at this moment. Also, there's no guarantee of him bringing back anyone.

With new user outreach, there is guarantee of getting to someone. The Facebook is very general, and posting on the DDO page does little to personally reach people. We would rely on old members to convince themselves to come back - which is far from easily promised.

Or, he can say that new people will be attracted to the site through friends who liked the DDO page. Again, it is hard to put forth a convincing argument to use the site when all you give is a general message and ask them to do the work for you.

But DK might not have nothing in place for DDO Presidency programs set to expire. He has decided to trust the Rosalie and Famous duo with running as many of Bsh's programs as they want.

What's the problem with that? Well, they have absolutely no experience with any program, let alone the user outreach - which I find most important. On the other hand, my chief of staff has more experience with outreach than anybody. My VP and I have been involved with the Bsh1 administration for months.

So, aside from different matters I take issue with in regards to DK and Rosalie/Famous - this is very important. DK is trusting the future of the site in people who literally has no idea how any program works. I have a lot of questions for his judgement capabilities because of things such as this.

I mean, "save the Presidency"? What about killing one of the President's useful responsibilities and giving it to people in exchange for an endorsement helps to "save the Presidency"?

Who is lost if there's no outreach

Now that it has been established that people don't often stay, I want to discuss the reasons why they leave - and how outreach addresses this problem.

Under the "Help" section of the site, there is a "Contact Us" page. The issue with this is that, due to the absence of Juggle, people who use this page are wasting their time. So, if they need help, who do they go to? It would be easy for us to say they go to Max instead, but to find the head moderator, they would have to come into contact with someone about the issue.

New users can be turned away by site bugs - if someone comes around during a bad 500 error spell, they might be dissuaded further after not being able to find help. Also, DDO is often found on Google due to the sheer number of search results the Polls and Opinions bring in. The problem here is that the Polls are bugged to point that they"re about useless. So what do they do? They leave - maybe after a couple poll votes.

So, then we have members who venture into the forums and don't really participate. They might look at the DDO subforum and end up not posting much, if at all, because the forums have a clear community and they are outsiders. For a long time, I was one of those people. I joined the site in February 2014, didn"t post in the forums because I didn"t know what was going on - and I returned to the site in October that year, and I more or less forced myself into the community. Becoming a true part of the community, without outreach, requires a lot of work from the new user that most won"t give when they see a buggy site with a community they're unsure about joining. Outreach helps to break this barrier for these people.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/20/2016 2:46:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
We lose a lot of potentially great members because nobody is around to greet these people and introduce them to what the site is like and what the experience is. A potential Hall of Fame debater is probably on the site right now, but without a large enough outreach effort - this person will log off and forget they ever found the site.

New Member Mentorship Program

An overhauled New Member Mentorship Program is designed to pair new members with established members so they can better become a quality member of the site.

I ran every beginner's tournament I modded to completion, and that was by making sure my mentors were solid so that enough noobs followed through with the tournament. With proper delegation, I want to run this program similar to how I ran beginner's tournaments. Mentors have to avoid burnout. So they do not suffer from said burnout, a mentor should never take on more than one or two people at a time.

As mentors in a private environment, they can put more time into the relationship so more members stick around. After a few months, they can be more in tune with the site - whether they were mentored in debate, mafia, or just how to be a better member in general. People become invested in the site when their experiences are personal.

For outreach and mentorship, I don't need to pump out 50 members for every month. You can expect 45 of those 50 to fizzle out quickly. A few might stay a couple weeks, and a member may stick around once in a blue moon. If I have 10-15 members taking 1-2 members each for a few months at a time, the noobs might form bonds on the site as well as learn from the experienced members - leading to them sticking around for longer.

Concluding remarks

These two (connected) programs can be of immense use to the site as a whole. Yet, only this campaign seems to care about its use in order to benefit the site.

User outreach is not a controversial part of the Presidency, but I view it as one of the few real responsibilities of the President who wants to better the site. I would hope that a focus on a program that sets out to ensure long-term health of the site is something that everyone can get behind.

Thanks for reading,

Harder
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 2:48:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Previous threads:

Announcement: http://www.debate.org...
Part 1: http://www.debate.org...
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/20/2016 2:56:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 2:44:58 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I take great issue with DK's platform on the point of new user outreach and mentorship. Not once in his community platform thread does he talk about the importance to get new users. Instead, he puts most of his focus on using the Facebook page to post on and attract new members.

This doesn't make sense. If he is focusing on Facebook to attract new members, is that not emphasizing the importance of getting new users?

YYW, Bsh1, TUF, Danielle, Drafterman, Lannan13, Drafterman, Imabench, Buddamoose, Wylted, F-16, Bossy, ESocialBookworm, Thett3, XLAV, Airmax, FT, Harder (me), Dylancatlow, and Mikal

I'm good, but not that good. To even put a bigger point on this. I locked out my Drafterman account over two years ago. It hasn't made a single post in that time frame, yet is still within that first page of top posters.

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?
Rosalie
Posts: 4,612
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5/20/2016 3:05:12 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
New Member Mentorship Program
.

For outreach and mentorship, I don't need to pump out 50 members for every month. You can expect 45 of those 50 to fizzle out quickly. A few might stay a couple weeks, and a member may stick around once in a blue moon. If I have 10-15 members taking 1-2 members each for a few months at a time, the noobs might form bonds on the site as well as learn from the experienced members - leading to them sticking around for longer.

Concluding remarks

These two (connected) programs can be of immense use to the site as a whole. Yet, only this campaign seems to care about its use in order to benefit the site.

User outreach is not a controversial part of the Presidency, but I view it as one of the few real responsibilities of the President who wants to better the site. I would hope that a focus on a program that sets out to ensure long-term health of the site is something that everyone can get behind.

Thanks for reading,

Harder

This could work..

You mentioned having 10-15 members to be given a noob, and taking to them, mentoring them, etc..to create a bond.

Would you rotate members, or would they always be the 10-15 members?

Not sure how this would work. When I ran tournaments, I always chose mentors who were dedicated to debating, and who were well established. And even then, I had issues with them not helping or responding to their noobs. So, what makes you think your plan will be effective?
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1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 2:56:27 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 2:44:58 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I take great issue with DK's platform on the point of new user outreach and mentorship. Not once in his community platform thread does he talk about the importance to get new users. Instead, he puts most of his focus on using the Facebook page to post on and attract new members.

This doesn't make sense. If he is focusing on Facebook to attract new members, is that not emphasizing the importance of getting new users?

YYW, Bsh1, TUF, Danielle, Drafterman, Lannan13, Drafterman, Imabench, Buddamoose, Wylted, F-16, Bossy, ESocialBookworm, Thett3, XLAV, Airmax, FT, Harder (me), Dylancatlow, and Mikal

I'm good, but not that good. To even put a bigger point on this. I locked out my Drafterman account over two years ago. It hasn't made a single post in that time frame, yet is still within that first page of top posters.

Lol I might've made a copying error. Which means I only counted the top 19... So the top 19 active people made that many posts.

Also, I counted your current account into your total. Same with Bossy.

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?

My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/20/2016 3:18:27 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:05:12 PM, Rosalie wrote:
New Member Mentorship Program
.

For outreach and mentorship, I don't need to pump out 50 members for every month. You can expect 45 of those 50 to fizzle out quickly. A few might stay a couple weeks, and a member may stick around once in a blue moon. If I have 10-15 members taking 1-2 members each for a few months at a time, the noobs might form bonds on the site as well as learn from the experienced members - leading to them sticking around for longer.

Concluding remarks

These two (connected) programs can be of immense use to the site as a whole. Yet, only this campaign seems to care about its use in order to benefit the site.

User outreach is not a controversial part of the Presidency, but I view it as one of the few real responsibilities of the President who wants to better the site. I would hope that a focus on a program that sets out to ensure long-term health of the site is something that everyone can get behind.

Thanks for reading,

Harder

This could work..

You mentioned having 10-15 members to be given a noob, and taking to them, mentoring them, etc..to create a bond.

Would you rotate members, or would they always be the 10-15 members?

Not sure how this would work. When I ran tournaments, I always chose mentors who were dedicated to debating, and who were well established. And even then, I had issues with them not helping or responding to their noobs. So, what makes you think your plan will be effective?

I want mentors to stick to their noob for months. If they only have one at a time (so yes, it would be along the lines of rotation) for an extended period, you don't have to worry as much about attentiveness because the window for help is much greater than a 2-3 day debate argument deadline.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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imabench
Posts: 21,220
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5/20/2016 3:44:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 2:44:58 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
**This will be a two-part post**

Not once in his community platform thread does he talk about the importance to get new users. Instead, he puts most of his focus on using the Facebook page to post on and attract new members.

That kinds counts as talking about the importance to get new users doesnt it? I mean I question the effectiveness of such a proposal but he does seem to have a plan for new-user outreach

Without Outreach, DDO risks becoming stale

I was legitimately interested by this concept. DDO has largely become a place where we have a small, main crew - and everything else is fleeting. The following are the twenty most prolific active posters, excluding the exclusively religion forum members and including second account post counts:

YYW, Bsh1, TUF, Danielle, Drafterman, Lannan13, Imabench, Buddamoose, Wylted, F-16, Bossy, ESocialBookworm, Thett3, XLAV, Airmax, FT, Harder (me), Dylancatlow, and Mikal

The total number of posts at the time of me writing this: 299,278. Overall non-religion forum posts: 1,891,470. So, about 15.8% of posts ever made on DDO have been made by the top 20 active users in terms of post count.

^ A good chunk of that is mafia games posting. I dont know what that fact has to do anything but its just more context.

But DK might not have nothing in place for DDO Presidency programs set to expire. He has decided to trust the Rosalie and Famous duo with running as many of Bsh's programs as they want.

What's the problem with that? Well, they have absolutely no experience with any program, let alone the user outreach - which I find most important. On the other hand, my chief of staff has more experience with outreach than anybody. My VP and I have been involved with the Bsh1 administration for months.

I know SolonKR is your VP but who is your chief of staff?

Also why is there a need for a chief of staff?

So, aside from different matters I take issue with in regards to DK and Rosalie/Famous - this is very important. DK is trusting the future of the site in people who literally has no idea how any program works. I have a lot of questions for his judgement capabilities because of things such as this.

I mean, "save the Presidency"? What about killing one of the President's useful responsibilities and giving it to people in exchange for an endorsement helps to "save the Presidency"?

*eats popcorn*

New users can be turned away by site bugs - if someone comes around during a bad 500 error spell, they might be dissuaded further after not being able to find help.

Becoming a true part of the community, without outreach, requires a lot of work from the new user that most won"t give when they see a buggy site with a community they're unsure about joining. Outreach helps to break this barrier for these people.

To be fair, those are things not even the mod can handle, let alone a president
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
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7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
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TheGreatAndPowerful
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5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?

My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?
imabench
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5/20/2016 3:57:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?

My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

Well if the Chinese have taught us anything its that prison labor is always cheap and reliable
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 6:07:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?

My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

Most people voting in the election are well established, too. The plan for mentorship is that they help them become a part of the site - whether a noob is interested in debate, mafia, or just being a forum contributor only. The manpower is used to help as many new members become quality members as possible.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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TheGreatAndPowerful
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5/20/2016 6:21:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:07:51 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

As a site, we must take the future into our own hands. Getting as many people involved with the outreach and mentorship programs is key for a thriving DDO in the long run. We cannot rely on the same members to create content, or eventually the site actually becomes predictable. It's also not only the big names that the site needs to thrive. When more contributors come around, the site is bound to feel more full of life.

Ok. So what's your plan for this? Furthermore, if you have a plan, are you implementing it now?

My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

That's not quite accurate. According to lanna's poll, the role of the president in terms of doing anything but being a liaison/middle man is just 27.5%. And even if we took your "50% support", that's support for the presidency as a position, not support for you specifically.

I wonder how many people that do support you realize you're running on a platform that involves drafting them to do work. Anyone that is voting for you is voting you for you to do the work. If they were willing and able to do the work, they'd just be doing it now themselves.

Which only raises the eternal question: Why do you need to be president to do this? Just take everyone that supports you and go get some noobs. Why wait until you're elected? No one unwilling to work for you now is going to magically decide to work for you upon being elected.

The proof is in the pudding. Show us your plan is feasible by doing a pilot now. Get your supporters to bring in some noobs.

Most people voting in the election are well established, too. The plan for mentorship is that they help them become a part of the site - whether a noob is interested in debate, mafia, or just being a forum contributor only. The manpower is used to help as many new members become quality members as possible.

Talking about what to do with noobs is all well and fined but let's settle the issue of how you get them here in the first place. Basically you're going to draft whoever votes for you. I'm interested in seeing you try and enforce that.
1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 6:29:47 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:21:45 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:07:51 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

That's not quite accurate. According to lanna's poll, the role of the president in terms of doing anything but being a liaison/middle man is just 27.5%. And even if we took your "50% support", that's support for the presidency as a position, not support for you specifically.

I think you're reading into that too much. That question was about the main role of the Presidency.

I wonder how many people that do support you realize you're running on a platform that involves drafting them to do work. Anyone that is voting for you is voting you for you to do the work. If they were willing and able to do the work, they'd just be doing it now themselves.

I'm not planning on "drafting" anyone. There are enough people willing to participate - I just don't think they've been utilized properly.

And I do plan on being active in the process - but finding enough noobs until one person actually sticks around because of the help can be difficult. The chances are far better in greater numbers.

Which only raises the eternal question: Why do you need to be president to do this? Just take everyone that supports you and go get some noobs. Why wait until you're elected? No one unwilling to work for you now is going to magically decide to work for you upon being elected.

The proof is in the pudding. Show us your plan is feasible by doing a pilot now. Get your supporters to bring in some noobs.

Will do. When do you want results and what results do you want?

Most people voting in the election are well established, too. The plan for mentorship is that they help them become a part of the site - whether a noob is interested in debate, mafia, or just being a forum contributor only. The manpower is used to help as many new members become quality members as possible.

Talking about what to do with noobs is all well and fined but let's settle the issue of how you get them here in the first place. Basically you're going to draft whoever votes for you. I'm interested in seeing you try and enforce that.

I'm not going to "draft" anyone. There have always been plenty of people who would volunteer, but nobody has ever done such a focus on outreach.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 6:34:21 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 3:44:54 PM, imabench wrote:
At 5/20/2016 2:44:58 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
**This will be a two-part post**

Not once in his community platform thread does he talk about the importance to get new users. Instead, he puts most of his focus on using the Facebook page to post on and attract new members.

That kinds counts as talking about the importance to get new users doesnt it? I mean I question the effectiveness of such a proposal but he does seem to have a plan for new-user outreach

My version is reaching out to those who already had enough interest in DDO to make an account who don't know what to do, if they ever do anything.

Without Outreach, DDO risks becoming stale

I was legitimately interested by this concept. DDO has largely become a place where we have a small, main crew - and everything else is fleeting. The following are the twenty most prolific active posters, excluding the exclusively religion forum members and including second account post counts:

YYW, Bsh1, TUF, Danielle, Drafterman, Lannan13, Imabench, Buddamoose, Wylted, F-16, Bossy, ESocialBookworm, Thett3, XLAV, Airmax, FT, Harder (me), Dylancatlow, and Mikal

The total number of posts at the time of me writing this: 299,278. Overall non-religion forum posts: 1,891,470. So, about 15.8% of posts ever made on DDO have been made by the top 20 active users in terms of post count.

^ A good chunk of that is mafia games posting. I dont know what that fact has to do anything but its just more context.

True, but most of the members listed there are active elsewhere on the site. Some are top contributors regardless of whether in mafia or politics.

But DK might not have nothing in place for DDO Presidency programs set to expire. He has decided to trust the Rosalie and Famous duo with running as many of Bsh's programs as they want.

What's the problem with that? Well, they have absolutely no experience with any program, let alone the user outreach - which I find most important. On the other hand, my chief of staff has more experience with outreach than anybody. My VP and I have been involved with the Bsh1 administration for months.

I know SolonKR is your VP but who is your chief of staff?

Hayd

Also why is there a need for a chief of staff?

My plan for my chief of staff was to help running with outreach. So I asked Hayd, who runs outreach (and doesn't really have much help).

So, aside from different matters I take issue with in regards to DK and Rosalie/Famous - this is very important. DK is trusting the future of the site in people who literally has no idea how any program works. I have a lot of questions for his judgement capabilities because of things such as this.

I mean, "save the Presidency"? What about killing one of the President's useful responsibilities and giving it to people in exchange for an endorsement helps to "save the Presidency"?

*eats popcorn*

New users can be turned away by site bugs - if someone comes around during a bad 500 error spell, they might be dissuaded further after not being able to find help.

Becoming a true part of the community, without outreach, requires a lot of work from the new user that most won't give when they see a buggy site with a community they're unsure about joining. Outreach helps to break this barrier for these people.

To be fair, those are things not even the mod can handle, let alone a president

We can't fix the bugs, but we can help noobs get past community barriers and show them the site is more than 500 errors and broken polls.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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TheGreatAndPowerful
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5/20/2016 6:55:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:29:47 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:21:45 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:07:51 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

That's not quite accurate. According to lanna's poll, the role of the president in terms of doing anything but being a liaison/middle man is just 27.5%. And even if we took your "50% support", that's support for the presidency as a position, not support for you specifically.

I think you're reading into that too much. That question was about the main role of the Presidency.

I'm the one reading into it too much? You're suggesting that 50% support for the presidency means 50% of the people are willing to go out and recruit new members!

I wonder how many people that do support you realize you're running on a platform that involves drafting them to do work. Anyone that is voting for you is voting you for you to do the work. If they were willing and able to do the work, they'd just be doing it now themselves.

I'm not planning on "drafting" anyone. There are enough people willing to participate - I just don't think they've been utilized properly.

And I question the basis for that belief. Going from "support the presidency" to "support a specific candidate's plan" is quite the jump.

And I do plan on being active in the process - but finding enough noobs until one person actually sticks around because of the help can be difficult. The chances are far better in greater numbers.

Which only raises the eternal question: Why do you need to be president to do this? Just take everyone that supports you and go get some noobs. Why wait until you're elected? No one unwilling to work for you now is going to magically decide to work for you upon being elected.

The proof is in the pudding. Show us your plan is feasible by doing a pilot now. Get your supporters to bring in some noobs.

Will do. When do you want results and what results do you want?

Well, the election is in 2 months, so before then. And the results are some sort of successful implementation of whatever plan it is you intend to put in place. Get these supporters to recruit new members of the site.

Most people voting in the election are well established, too. The plan for mentorship is that they help them become a part of the site - whether a noob is interested in debate, mafia, or just being a forum contributor only. The manpower is used to help as many new members become quality members as possible.

Talking about what to do with noobs is all well and fined but let's settle the issue of how you get them here in the first place. Basically you're going to draft whoever votes for you. I'm interested in seeing you try and enforce that.

I'm not going to "draft" anyone. There have always been plenty of people who would volunteer, but nobody has ever done such a focus on outreach.

So why aren't you doing it now?

Also, to go back to my original question, what exactly is your plan?

"Outreach" is an idea. "Utilize manpower" is a strategy.

What is the plan. A plan has steps. So far you have vague concepts.

You imagine that there is a large section of the populace that is willing to volunteer for this. How do you identify them and gain their explicit support?

How are you going to direct these individuals? Are you just going to point a finger and say, "go get 'em!" or do you have some specific way of recruiting members. This is something actual organizations devote entire divisions to. You are distressingly light on details where.

From where are you going to recruit new individuals?

What methods will you use to do the actual recruiting?

Or are you just going to leave this at the discretion of your volunteer army, which will basically amount to a half-hearted spamming campaign?
1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 7:02:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 6:55:08 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:29:47 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:21:45 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 6:07:51 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:54:51 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 3:16:29 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
My plan is to use sheer manpower that I want to use the Presidency to obtain. I can't really implement it without it.

How do you plan to use "sheer manpower" to implement this plan? Where will this manpower come from?

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

That's not quite accurate. According to lanna's poll, the role of the president in terms of doing anything but being a liaison/middle man is just 27.5%. And even if we took your "50% support", that's support for the presidency as a position, not support for you specifically.

I think you're reading into that too much. That question was about the main role of the Presidency.

I'm the one reading into it too much? You're suggesting that 50% support for the presidency means 50% of the people are willing to go out and recruit new members!

I apologize. I didn't make my thought as complete as it should have been.

The Presidency seems to be hovering around 50% support. If everyone were to take one noob just among those who support the Presidency, then the site would be golden. Unfortunately, the volunteerism rate for programs will never be 100% of pro-Presidential voters. However, the usual amount of people that would volunteer for being involved with the Administration is equal to or greater than the number I wanted for this program. The manpower is in the support of the Presidency.

I fully understand your objection, but it stems from an accidental omission in my reply.

I wonder how many people that do support you realize you're running on a platform that involves drafting them to do work. Anyone that is voting for you is voting you for you to do the work. If they were willing and able to do the work, they'd just be doing it now themselves.

I'm not planning on "drafting" anyone. There are enough people willing to participate - I just don't think they've been utilized properly.

And I question the basis for that belief. Going from "support the presidency" to "support a specific candidate's plan" is quite the jump.

And I do plan on being active in the process - but finding enough noobs until one person actually sticks around because of the help can be difficult. The chances are far better in greater numbers.

Which only raises the eternal question: Why do you need to be president to do this? Just take everyone that supports you and go get some noobs. Why wait until you're elected? No one unwilling to work for you now is going to magically decide to work for you upon being elected.

The proof is in the pudding. Show us your plan is feasible by doing a pilot now. Get your supporters to bring in some noobs.

Will do. When do you want results and what results do you want?

Well, the election is in 2 months, so before then. And the results are some sort of successful implementation of whatever plan it is you intend to put in place. Get these supporters to recruit new members of the site.

Okay.

Most people voting in the election are well established, too. The plan for mentorship is that they help them become a part of the site - whether a noob is interested in debate, mafia, or just being a forum contributor only. The manpower is used to help as many new members become quality members as possible.

Talking about what to do with noobs is all well and fined but let's settle the issue of how you get them here in the first place. Basically you're going to draft whoever votes for you. I'm interested in seeing you try and enforce that.

I'm not going to "draft" anyone. There have always been plenty of people who would volunteer, but nobody has ever done such a focus on outreach.

So why aren't you doing it now?

Also, to go back to my original question, what exactly is your plan?

"Outreach" is an idea. "Utilize manpower" is a strategy.

What is the plan. A plan has steps. So far you have vague concepts.

You imagine that there is a large section of the populace that is willing to volunteer for this. How do you identify them and gain their explicit support?

How are you going to direct these individuals? Are you just going to point a finger and say, "go get 'em!" or do you have some specific way of recruiting members. This is something actual organizations devote entire divisions to. You are distressingly light on details where.

From where are you going to recruit new individuals?

What methods will you use to do the actual recruiting?

Or are you just going to leave this at the discretion of your volunteer army, which will basically amount to a half-hearted spamming campaign?

I have a plan for structured outreach, but I want to ask a supporter of mine if they're okay with me using their name outright before I tell you the exact plan.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/20/2016 8:42:50 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I'm a bit busy, so I won't be available for in-depth questions until at least 9:00 PM EST.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
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5/20/2016 8:45:32 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:02:39 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I have a plan for structured outreach, but I want to ask a supporter of mine if they're okay with me using their name outright before I tell you the exact plan.

As little as my opinion matters on this and as little as I care about this race, I still think you deserve to hear this. I'm happy you are running. I am 100 percent in favor of abolishing the office, and will vote for bench for that reason but i'd be perfectly happy if you are elected as well. I think the idea of entitlement is a hidden concept in this election, one which you know is a false perception. In my experience with both people in real life and online (including myself), is those people who think they are entitled to something work less and don't live up to the expectations they have sworn to achieve. You know you are not entitled to this position, and you also know that *no one* else is as well.

It's that type of mindset that will keep you in check and make you serve the community in the best possible way. So from the bottom of my heart (non troll for once), I wish you the best of luck in this. I think you will do DDO a great service, and I think the office will give you experiences that will help you on here and in real life. Don't listen to people who troll you, or say you should not run. From the first time I met you (when I disliked you), up until now (where I actually like you), you have always had the desire and drive to make DDO a better place.

You are the Bernie Sanders of this election, except you actually have a shot at winning. I see your desire to better this place and I honestly believe you can live up to what you are preaching and saying you want to do. You have inadvertently stole trumps slogan, and used it in a way that is applicable to the circumstances before you.

GL

Win or lose, and if abolishing the office fails, you are the person best qualified for the job in this race.
1harderthanyouthink
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5/20/2016 8:55:40 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 8:45:32 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:02:39 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I have a plan for structured outreach, but I want to ask a supporter of mine if they're okay with me using their name outright before I tell you the exact plan.

As little as my opinion matters on this and as little as I care about this race, I still think you deserve to hear this. I'm happy you are running. I am 100 percent in favor of abolishing the office, and will vote for bench for that reason but i'd be perfectly happy if you are elected as well. I think the idea of entitlement is a hidden concept in this election, one which you know is a false perception. In my experience with both people in real life and online (including myself), is those people who think they are entitled to something work less and don't live up to the expectations they have sworn to achieve. You know you are not entitled to this position, and you also know that *no one* else is as well.

It's that type of mindset that will keep you in check and make you serve the community in the best possible way. So from the bottom of my heart (non troll for once), I wish you the best of luck in this. I think you will do DDO a great service, and I think the office will give you experiences that will help you on here and in real life. Don't listen to people who troll you, or say you should not run. From the first time I met you (when I disliked you), up until now (where I actually like you), you have always had the desire and drive to make DDO a better place.

You are the Bernie Sanders of this election, except you actually have a shot at winning. I see your desire to better this place and I honestly believe you can live up to what you are preaching and saying you want to do. You have inadvertently stole trumps slogan, and used it in a way that is applicable to the circumstances before you.

GL

Win or lose, and if abolishing the office fails, you are the person best qualified for the job in this race.

Thanks, Mikal.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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5/21/2016 12:09:36 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 2:46:45 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
We lose a lot of potentially great members because nobody is around to greet these people and introduce them to what the site is like and what the experience is. A potential Hall of Fame debater is probably on the site right now, but without a large enough outreach effort - this person will log off and forget they ever found the site.

New Member Mentorship Program

An overhauled New Member Mentorship Program is designed to pair new members with established members so they can better become a quality member of the site.

I ran every beginner's tournament I modded to completion, and that was by making sure my mentors were solid so that enough noobs followed through with the tournament. With proper delegation, I want to run this program similar to how I ran beginner's tournaments. Mentors have to avoid burnout. So they do not suffer from said burnout, a mentor should never take on more than one or two people at a time.

As mentors in a private environment, they can put more time into the relationship so more members stick around. After a few months, they can be more in tune with the site - whether they were mentored in debate, mafia, or just how to be a better member in general. People become invested in the site when their experiences are personal.

For outreach and mentorship, I don't need to pump out 50 members for every month. You can expect 45 of those 50 to fizzle out quickly. A few might stay a couple weeks, and a member may stick around once in a blue moon. If I have 10-15 members taking 1-2 members each for a few months at a time, the noobs might form bonds on the site as well as learn from the experienced members - leading to them sticking around for longer.

Concluding remarks

These two (connected) programs can be of immense use to the site as a whole. Yet, only this campaign seems to care about its use in order to benefit the site.

User outreach is not a controversial part of the Presidency, but I view it as one of the few real responsibilities of the President who wants to better the site. I would hope that a focus on a program that sets out to ensure long-term health of the site is something that everyone can get behind.

Thanks for reading,

Harder

I'm glad I took the time to read this. You are a very well thought out young person who has my respect. I wasn't previously considering voting for you because of your age, but this post is written so concisely and naturally, that I believe your intentions are sincere and you'd put in all your effort to follow the platform you have brought forth.

I'm completely undecided on who I will end up voting for, but I apologize for not giving you real consideration, because of your age, until I read this post.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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5/21/2016 3:43:54 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/20/2016 7:02:39 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

I have a plan for structured outreach, but I want to ask a supporter of mine if they're okay with me using their name outright before I tell you the exact plan.

I just realized how ridiculous this is. Either they are fine with it, in which case tell us the plan. Or they aren't, in which case you can't really implement the plan anyway.
1harderthanyouthink
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5/21/2016 2:28:21 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 3:43:54 AM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 5/20/2016 7:02:39 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I have a plan for structured outreach, but I want to ask a supporter of mine if they're okay with me using their name outright before I tell you the exact plan.

I just realized how ridiculous this is. Either they are fine with it, in which case tell us the plan. Or they aren't, in which case you can't really implement the plan anyway.

Well, giving the entirety of the plan would be difficult.

Also, my idea hinges on a point of a greater mentorship program. To be fully successful - that has to be a part of the test run too. So when I give you the pilot program plan, it would have to include the second part as well.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/21/2016 2:28:58 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/21/2016 12:09:36 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 5/20/2016 2:46:45 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm completely undecided on who I will end up voting for, but I apologize for not giving you real consideration, because of your age, until I read this post.

Your words are appreciated.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TUF
Posts: 21,309
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5/22/2016 7:41:57 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
I dare you to do a live debate with me on your platform. Let's take a shot everytime you are victim about something vague you "got in PM" that indicates someone did something that you can use against them. Come at me. Let's go. Live debate this sh1t. I used to have respect for you. That's completely gone after this sh1t campaign you've pulled on DK for your manipulative self benefits.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
1harderthanyouthink
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5/22/2016 9:50:34 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 7:41:57 AM, TUF wrote:
I dare you to do a live debate with me on your platform. Let's take a shot everytime you are victim about something vague you "got in PM" that indicates someone did something that you can use against them. Come at me. Let's go. Live debate this sh1t. I used to have respect for you. That's completely gone after this sh1t campaign you've pulled on DK for your manipulative self benefits.

This thread has everything to do with DK's platform, and nothing to do with the drama aspect. I don't gain anything by engaging in more flame wars, more drama, etc. I get tired of it too. You had your chance to go at me for an hour, and that's all I'm up for with you. I'm not going to be pushed around - you and anyone else who thinks I'll just roll over when you want to be an a$shole should have learned that by now. You're not helping yourself.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
tejretics
Posts: 6,089
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5/22/2016 9:59:07 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 9:50:34 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

This presidential election is turning out so much like the US presidential election it's scary... you and DK/TUF are like Bernie and Hillary respectively, and Imabench is Trump.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
1harderthanyouthink
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5/22/2016 10:00:29 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/22/2016 9:59:07 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 5/22/2016 9:50:34 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

This presidential election is turning out so much like the US presidential election it's scary... you and DK/TUF are like Bernie and Hillary respectively, and Imabench is Trump.

I guess it's interesting how we can make connections between the two.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King