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**Harder Platform: Outreach/Mentor Pilot**

1harderthanyouthink
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5/24/2016 7:46:48 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
For those who don't know, I received a challenge from Drafterman to run a pilot for my plans on outreach and mentoring new members in my last platform thread. Here it is.

Pure Outreach

For pure outreach, I'm keeping it to only a two-person team to begin: Hayd and myself. Hayd will message random new users who have expressed enough interest in the site to set a profile picture. I will scour the site for new members with little activity. If they respond to the initial message, they will be asked if they are interested in participating in a new member mentor program.

I had hoped for a more structured set-up, but pure outreach is not what I'm most interested in the results of.

New User Mentoring

The philosophy behind this program is that to grab a noob's interest, interest must be shown - not just in their growth as a member, but also interest in their person. Most noobs leave the site when they cannot successfully become a part of the community, or they lose interest in the site after a few days or weeks of hacking around.

The fact of the matter is that most members don't stay for the same reason they joined the site - at least, not solely the original reason. Many members stay because of the connections they form here, along with the benefits of being on a debate site.

That said, mentoring is not a one-size-fits-all issue. The members participating in this program do not all have the same style and set of strengths on the site - which is a good thing here. I think it's a mistake to assume all noobs just need to learn how to debate and vote. Some noobs will be better off with guidance in regards to the aspects of the community. This is the reason I call my program "slow and personal": we don't need to rush to get noobs into the site. Taking it slow will yield the best results in helping new members establish themselves - through guiding them to fulfill natural talents and helping them to form bonds on the site.

The plan is not to create a one-size-fits-all system. The approach is to cater to the individual noob in the best way possible. The mentor experience for one noob, therefore, will not be the same as anyone else.

Including myself, there are 10 mentors for the pilot program. I have asked the mentors to fill out a small form to get their opinion on what they can best teach and what they are most interested in helping the noobs with - this is a part of catering to the noob. I will make the program so that no mentor has more than one or two at a time, to ensure the noobs have the most attention possible in their time with their mentors.

---

Any questions?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
How is this plan different than the status quo?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:01:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Also, you said that Hayd is one of the two people in charge of this. If this is true, then why hasn't Hayd, who's been running it for some time since the dissaperance of Zaradi, made these changes in the first place?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:07:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:01:19 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Also, you said that Hayd is one of the two people in charge of this. If this is true, then why hasn't Hayd, who's been running it for some time since the disappearance of Zaradi, made these changes in the first place?

I can't answer for him. He's going to run his at the same time as the pilot.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:08:15 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Adding onto the last two answers I gave you, the best approach is to sometimes find the flaws in a system and build on the status quo rather than burn everything to the ground.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:13:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Also, if you are declining on certain people, then when's the time cut-off limit?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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5/24/2016 8:27:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

You have to remember that often times noobs (I was and still kinda am) get intimidated by people who have a butt load of posts and debates, not to mention actually debating in a tournament anyways
Sam7411
Posts: 959
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5/24/2016 8:29:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

To add to this, the new members would only see that a select few of the site interacting and welcoming them, rather than a community outreach
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:30:56 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

Well, first - this is a pilot. This is not as big as I hope a Administration-run program would be. Second, even if I did have as large a program as I would hope, we have to understand our limitations even then. We can't pull every new member or noncontributing member into the program, give each mentor several people to teach and expect quality.

And by general, I mean not every person gets help on the same specific thing. I don't mean anyone can join when I say "general".
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:31:49 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:29:39 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

To add to this, the new members would only see that a select few of the site interacting and welcoming them, rather than a community outreach

We do have a pure outreach aspect. A lot of people, however, leave before ever seeing the welcome message.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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5/24/2016 8:33:24 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
I think you misunderstand my "challenge."

I am less concerned with what you do with new members than I am with how you get new members to begin with.

How do you get non-DDO users to come to the site and sign up? That was the initial part of your "platform" and the one I focused on in my response.

So it's all fine and dandy you have a plan to mentor and groom newbies.

How do you plan on getting them here in the first place?
1harderthanyouthink
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5/24/2016 8:35:02 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:27:17 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

You have to remember that often times noobs (I was and still kinda am) get intimidated by people who have a butt load of posts and debates, not to mention actually debating in a tournament anyways

I mean, the examples Lannan gave aren't noobs. You aren't really a noob anymore in the sense you need to be helped into the community. The pros of the beginners tournament is that you're on the same level as just about everyone else. The only purpose is to grow, not to be followed by the site like a high-quality experienced member tournament.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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5/24/2016 8:36:19 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:33:24 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
I think you misunderstand my "challenge."

I am less concerned with what you do with new members than I am with how you get new members to begin with.

How do you get non-DDO users to come to the site and sign up? That was the initial part of your "platform" and the one I focused on in my response.

So it's all fine and dandy you have a plan to mentor and groom newbies.

How do you plan on getting them here in the first place?

DDO has not had a problem with getting people to find the site in a long time.

http://www.debate.org...

The issue is to find them when they get here.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Sam7411
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5/24/2016 8:39:17 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:31:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:29:39 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

To add to this, the new members would only see that a select few of the site interacting and welcoming them, rather than a community outreach

We do have a pure outreach aspect. A lot of people, however, leave before ever seeing the welcome message.

Exactly why a team of volunteers would be more apt at outreach, so at ALL times someone is available

Two people would not be enough
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:40:39 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:39:17 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:31:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:29:39 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

To add to this, the new members would only see that a select few of the site interacting and welcoming them, rather than a community outreach

We do have a pure outreach aspect. A lot of people, however, leave before ever seeing the welcome message.

Exactly why a team of volunteers would be more apt at outreach, so at ALL times someone is available

Two people would not be enough

Sure, and I'm more than open to people helping. Two people is a starting point.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 8:51:07 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:30:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:10:26 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:07:53 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:06:17 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

Well there was a general mentoring program ran by VoT under Bsh's administration, but it kind of died when he went inactive.

Hayd runs one now, but feedback I've gotten from some people said that the mentors are stretched too thin. By reducing the number of people in the program and trying to increase numbers of mentors, I hope to fix that problem.

Why would you want to thin out the number of people in the program. Wouldn't you want to max that out as well since you would want to reach as many members on this site as possible.

I want to make sure that noobs do have some sort of interest in the site as well as the program. Also, this is a general mentoring program for new users, not any inexperienced debater who may have been here for several months. They can learn through beginner's tournaments. This is a broad learning experience. I want quality, not quantity.

Wouldn't you also want to help incorperate them as well. Sure it's a new intro program, but anyone who is new to a certain field shouldn't be excluded. If Darygirl or vi_spex want to get help for the forums then by God, it's our duty to help them out.

As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

Well, first - this is a pilot. This is not as big as I hope a Administration-run program would be. Second, even if I did have as large a program as I would hope, we have to understand our limitations even then. We can't pull every new member or noncontributing member into the program, give each mentor several people to teach and expect quality.

And by general, I mean not every person gets help on the same specific thing. I don't mean anyone can join when I say "general".

True, but wouldn't this alienate many of the new users who "don't make the cut." Especially since you wouldn't be accepting everyone due to the small number of mentors we have.
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If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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Sam7411
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5/24/2016 8:54:33 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
And what would have to be the necessary qualifications? Wouldn't rejecting members based on "quality" effectively alienate a possible greater benefit to the website? And lessen the amount of outreach possible?
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 8:58:54 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:51:07 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:30:56 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:22:22 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:19:35 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:17:09 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:14:13 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:12:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
As I said, they can use tools that have already been tried and have definitively succeeded in helping people grow as debaters - such as beginner's tournaments.

I think, though, that those two are obscure and extreme examples.

Well surely there are other areas you are wanting to help them out in other than debates since you are clearly showing that there is the Beginner's Tourney alternative. I inquire to what specifically does this program do?

It helps them to grow as parts of the community. There are multiple ways to do that, which is why I think mentoring should have a general approach.

Then if that's the case, why should there be a cap on this?

Well, first - this is a pilot. This is not as big as I hope a Administration-run program would be. Second, even if I did have as large a program as I would hope, we have to understand our limitations even then. We can't pull every new member or noncontributing member into the program, give each mentor several people to teach and expect quality.

And by general, I mean not every person gets help on the same specific thing. I don't mean anyone can join when I say "general".

True, but wouldn't this alienate many of the new users who "don't make the cut." Especially since you wouldn't be accepting everyone due to the small number of mentors we have.

It's not really "alienating". There usually aren't a lot of people who are really interested in the site and are interested in being helped by a mentor. Having run beginner's tournaments (I think 3) and participating in one, I can tell you that a lot of people who sign up for help themselves do not end up even staying a week on the site. That's why I introduced a minimum time requirement for noobs in tournaments - and even that didn't solve the whole problem.

It's naive to think we can help everyone who has the potential to get better - especially in a test-run for a program - and expect good results.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 9:00:08 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 8:54:33 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
And what would have to be the necessary qualifications? Wouldn't rejecting members based on "quality" effectively alienate a possible greater benefit to the website? And lessen the amount of outreach possible?

"Quality over quantity" has nothing to do with the noob, but the quality of the mentor experience.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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lannan13
Posts: 23,075
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5/24/2016 9:02:42 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:00:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:54:33 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
And what would have to be the necessary qualifications? Wouldn't rejecting members based on "quality" effectively alienate a possible greater benefit to the website? And lessen the amount of outreach possible?

"Quality over quantity" has nothing to do with the noob, but the quality of the mentor experience.

Shouldn't we rather focus on the Mentee's expierence.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,102
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5/24/2016 9:04:16 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 5/24/2016 9:02:42 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 5/24/2016 9:00:08 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 5/24/2016 8:54:33 PM, Sam7411 wrote:
And what would have to be the necessary qualifications? Wouldn't rejecting members based on "quality" effectively alienate a possible greater benefit to the website? And lessen the amount of outreach possible?

"Quality over quantity" has nothing to do with the noob, but the quality of the mentor experience.

Shouldn't we rather focus on the Mentee's expierence.

That's what I mean with "mentor experience".
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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5/24/2016 9:08:00 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
You've been asking really good questions lannan13, so I'll do my best to answer them.

At 5/24/2016 7:58:54 PM, lannan13 wrote:
How is this plan different than the status quo?

The status quo New User Mentorship was specifically debate, as well as judging debates if the mentor wanted to. But the mentor didn't have to specifically bond with the member, their only goal was to give advice on debating, and sometimes on judging. But the status quo was entirely debate mentoring. This pilot program will incorporate personal bonding as one of the primary goals instead. I think it will run alongside the debate mentorship program, it wouldnt abolish it.

Also, you said that Hayd is one of the two people in charge of this. If this is true, then why hasn't Hayd, who's been running it for some time since the dissaperance of Zaradi, made these changes in the first place?

I'm in charge of new user outreach, Chris is helping out by targeting those who have already posted in the forums, his involvement is supplemental.

The New User Mentorship Program under bsh1 administration was primarily debate centered. This program would focus on personal bonding. Its a different goal. I wouldn't change the entire purpose of a program