Total Posts:12|Showing Posts:1-12
Jump to topic:

If Conventions dont work, we'll ditch them

imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2016 9:50:18 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
A lot of people suspect that if the DDO Presidency were to be abolished, and replaced with the DDO Conventions that I am campaigning on, then DDO Conventions wont be as functional as believed to be, and will instead be a disorganized mess that will just cause more drama on the site ..... Others wonder if Conventions could be combined with the Presidency itself to improve the presidency, while some just have no idea what kind of effect Conventions will have on the site overall.

Im not here (in this thread) to argue that Conventions will work. See other threads if youre looking for that..... Im here to say that if Conventions dont work as well as some hope they do, then we can always go back to having a presidency

Im an abolitionist..... I believe the presidency should be abolished once and for all since it serves no purpose (in my opinion)..... But if you look at any thread I made outlining what can be proposed at a Convention, you'll notice that resolutions to restore the Presidency are not outlawed at all..... Thats because I want to do what is best for the site.... And what is best for the site -- in the event that DDO Conventions dont work out very well -- would be to have a process in place to bring back the Presidency..... We've had a presidency for years now and we are all very familiar with the process, whereas the same cannot be said for Conventions, which is something I literally made up about 2 months ago..... We can debate hypothetical arguments and scenarios all day regarding how Conventions would function if they were to be implemented, but the only way to know for sure how they would work is to simply try it out..... If we do decide to try it and it doesnt work very well, then we can always switch back to the old presidential system and stick with that, rather than be stuck with the Convention system forever.

Im not trying to 'trick' anyone into getting rid of the Presidency, and then doing everything possible to keep the Presidency from being brought back if DDO Conventions turn out to be a mess...... I do believe DDO would be better off with the Convention system, which is why I am campaigning on it...... If it doesnt work out though, then I still leave the door open to go back to the Presidency system, because I want to help DDO.... In this case, the best way to help DDO would be to get rid of the presidency and repalce it with a different system, but still include a fall-back option so that if the new system doesnt work, then we can go back to the way things were before.

========================================================

If youre on the fence on how Conventions would work if they were implemented on the site. I encourage you to vote for me in the election to implement them anyways...... Because If I win, but Conventions dont work out as well as hoped, we can always just go back to having the Presidency..... If that happens, then in the end no harm is done, because the Presidency would be reinstated and things would be back to normal....

There's no reason to vote against having Conventions just because of suspicion that they wont work better than the Presidency does.... Because if Conventions really dont work better than the Presidency after it is implemented, we can always vote to go back to having a Presidency....

Its easy to question the effectiveness of the Presidency simply because there arent any other system to compare it to that has been implemented or even theorized. By giving DDO Conventions a shot though, we will be able to better understand how great or bad the Presidency system was, and if the Presidency system turns out to be better than the Convention system, then we can always go back to having the presidency.

========================================================

Basically what im saying is: Lets give Conventions a shot even if youre skeptical they will work. Because even if they dont work out, we can always go back to having a presidency. If they do work out, great! Either way, we would make DDO better by either improving how the site is governed, or by realizing how well the presidency actually works.

The Presidency doesnt have to stay dead if I win the election. If the Convention system doesnt work out, then we can just go back to having a presidency. But lets at least give Conventions a shot to see how well they work. There's literally no harm in doing so since if Conventions dont work, we can go back to having the Presidency.

Thanks for reading!
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,819
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2016 9:56:51 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 9:50:18 PM, imabench wrote:
A lot of people suspect that if the DDO Presidency were to be abolished, and replaced with the DDO Conventions that I am campaigning on, then DDO Conventions wont be as functional as believed to be, and will instead be a disorganized mess that will just cause more drama on the site ..... Others wonder if Conventions could be combined with the Presidency itself to improve the presidency, while some just have no idea what kind of effect Conventions will have on the site overall.

Im not here (in this thread) to argue that Conventions will work. See other threads if youre looking for that..... Im here to say that if Conventions dont work as well as some hope they do, then we can always go back to having a presidency

Im an abolitionist..... I believe the presidency should be abolished once and for all since it serves no purpose (in my opinion)..... But if you look at any thread I made outlining what can be proposed at a Convention, you'll notice that resolutions to restore the Presidency are not outlawed at all..... Thats because I want to do what is best for the site.... And what is best for the site -- in the event that DDO Conventions dont work out very well -- would be to have a process in place to bring back the Presidency..... We've had a presidency for years now and we are all very familiar with the process, whereas the same cannot be said for Conventions, which is something I literally made up about 2 months ago..... We can debate hypothetical arguments and scenarios all day regarding how Conventions would function if they were to be implemented, but the only way to know for sure how they would work is to simply try it out..... If we do decide to try it and it doesnt work very well, then we can always switch back to the old presidential system and stick with that, rather than be stuck with the Convention system forever.

Im not trying to 'trick' anyone into getting rid of the Presidency, and then doing everything possible to keep the Presidency from being brought back if DDO Conventions turn out to be a mess...... I do believe DDO would be better off with the Convention system, which is why I am campaigning on it...... If it doesnt work out though, then I still leave the door open to go back to the Presidency system, because I want to help DDO.... In this case, the best way to help DDO would be to get rid of the presidency and repalce it with a different system, but still include a fall-back option so that if the new system doesnt work, then we can go back to the way things were before.

========================================================

If youre on the fence on how Conventions would work if they were implemented on the site. I encourage you to vote for me in the election to implement them anyways...... Because If I win, but Conventions dont work out as well as hoped, we can always just go back to having the Presidency..... If that happens, then in the end no harm is done, because the Presidency would be reinstated and things would be back to normal....

There's no reason to vote against having Conventions just because of suspicion that they wont work better than the Presidency does.... Because if Conventions really dont work better than the Presidency after it is implemented, we can always vote to go back to having a Presidency....

Its easy to question the effectiveness of the Presidency simply because there arent any other system to compare it to that has been implemented or even theorized. By giving DDO Conventions a shot though, we will be able to better understand how great or bad the Presidency system was, and if the Presidency system turns out to be better than the Convention system, then we can always go back to having the presidency.

========================================================

Basically what im saying is: Lets give Conventions a shot even if youre skeptical they will work. Because even if they dont work out, we can always go back to having a presidency. If they do work out, great! Either way, we would make DDO better by either improving how the site is governed, or by realizing how well the presidency actually works.

The Presidency doesnt have to stay dead if I win the election. If the Convention system doesnt work out, then we can just go back to having a presidency. But lets at least give Conventions a shot to see how well they work. There's literally no harm in doing so since if Conventions dont work, we can go back to having the Presidency.

Thanks for reading!

Again, I hate that we won't know if they work or not until 6 months from if and when you're elected, coupled with the campaign runs.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
ContraDictator
Posts: 37
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2016 10:07:38 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 9:56:51 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Again, I hate that we won't know if they work or not until 6 months from if and when you're elected, coupled with the campaign runs.

Welcome to politics, 'vote me in to let me change things', 'sorry I tried my best vote me in to actually change things', 'thank you for my 2terms it was gr8. Sorry that I basically changed nothing.'
I tend to fight any opinion, regardless of my agreement or disagreement to it. I believe to only fight opinions that you disagree with is a sign of a weak and rigid state of mind.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2016 10:28:25 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 10:07:38 PM, ContraDictator wrote:
At 6/2/2016 9:56:51 PM, PetersSmith wrote:

Again, I hate that we won't know if they work or not until 6 months from if and when you're elected, coupled with the campaign runs.

Welcome to politics, 'vote me in to let me change things', 'sorry I tried my best vote me in to actually change things', 'thank you for my 2terms it was gr8. Sorry that I basically changed nothing.'

Its still better to try to change things and fail rather than deny that something needs to be changed in the first place :P
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
lannan13
Posts: 23,022
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/2/2016 11:58:20 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
Question.

If the Conventions don't work, what' distinguishing you from Geo?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,085
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2016 12:31:29 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
So far, I haven't seen a single abolitionist that would prefer conventions to straight up abolition.
#UnbanTheMadman

#StandWithBossy

#BetOnThett

"bossy r u like 85 years old and have lost ur mind"
~mysteriouscrystals

"I've honestly never seen seventh post anything that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny way."
~F-16

https://docs.google.com...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,100
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2016 1:14:23 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/3/2016 12:31:29 AM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
So far, I haven't seen a single abolitionist that would prefer conventions to straight up abolition.

Some people who are on the edge between the Presidency and abolition are more likely to vote for abolition with conventions. So while strict abolitionists aren't too keen on it, it does bring more potential support for having no President.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2016 1:21:24 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/2/2016 11:58:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
Question.

If the Conventions don't work, what' distinguishing you from Geo?

1) Conventions are infinitely more likely to work than Geo's idea since his idea has a 0% chance of working

2) If Conventions dont work out as well as hoped, its still possible to use the Convention system itself to revert back to the Presidential system

3) Unlike Geo, I actually have supporters
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/3/2016 3:23:32 AM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/3/2016 3:12:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
Whether you're an abolitionist or not, there is no good reason not to try this out.

Exactly
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
DanneJeRusse
Posts: 12,597
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 2:27:45 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/3/2016 3:12:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
Whether you're an abolitionist or not, there is no good reason not to try this out.

Except for the fact that a circle jerk is a circle jerk is a circle jerk by any other name.

Real changes of any forum require the full interaction and support by the owners/administrators, which is completely void here.

Therefore, it's nothing but a circle jerk.
Marrying a 6 year old and waiting until she reaches puberty and maturity before having consensual sex is better than walking up to
a stranger in a bar and proceeding to have relations with no valid proof of the intent of the person. Muhammad wins. ~ Fatihah
If they don't want to be killed then they have to subdue to the Islamic laws. - Uncung
Without God, you are lower than sh!t. ~ SpiritandTruth
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/4/2016 2:40:06 PM
Posted: 6 months ago
At 6/4/2016 2:27:45 PM, DanneJeRusse wrote:
At 6/3/2016 3:12:14 AM, Wylted wrote:
Whether you're an abolitionist or not, there is no good reason not to try this out.

Except for the fact that a circle jerk is a circle jerk is a circle jerk by any other name.

Real changes of any forum require the full interaction and support by the owners/administrators, which is completely void here.

We dont need the owners/admins to get rid of the presidency and replace it with a new experimental system, which is basically what I am campaigning on.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015