Total Posts:36|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

What has the presidency done for YOU?

imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
In the 4 years and 9 months ive been on the site, the presidency has only ever affected me personally on two occasions:

1 - The time I was VP for about 2 weeks
2 - Whenever I decided to troll a presidential election.

Needless to say, the second number I listed isnt necessarily a 'good' quality of the Presidency that someone would list as a reason for keeping it. Certainly not a sane person at least..... But I want to ask the question in the title of the thread to everyone else who is reading this, along with some others.

- What has the presidency done for you?
- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?
- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?
- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site. Meanwhile, a large number of people who are in favor of abolishing the presidency also cannot name any times they have benefitted from its existence or even been affected by it......

Pro-presidency supporters claim that without the Presidency, so much would be lost.... But how much could be lost if almost nobody was even impacted by it in the first place? How much would be lost if programs that exist under the presidency would be allowed to continue under the Convention system I am running on?

Ive campaigned on my system by saying the presidency is useless and should be abolished.... I believe that to be true

Ive campaigned on my system and brought to light that if you like certain programs that exist under the presidency, they will stay in place under my system.... Which is 100% true

Ive campaigned on the belief that even if Conventions dont work, we can always use the convention system to go back to the Presidency system, so no harm no foul if things dont go right...... Which is another truth

There are many different reasons why DDO Conventions should at least be given the opportunity to work, and another reason I am pitching here today is that you should vote for implementing DDO Conventions is because 90% of the people reading this very sentence have never once been impacted or positively affected by the presidency a single time in all the months and years theyve been on the site.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Opsianos
Posts: 1,155
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2016 1:31:11 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
It has given me an endless source of entertainment from the sidelines, that's for sure.
Have no regrets.
bballcrook21
Posts: 4,468
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2016 1:46:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 1:30:34 AM, Syko wrote:
makes drama and allows mock presidential debates. Both fun and unique things to have on an online forum.

Seems to be the only use other than having a spokesperson to help out with issues.
If you put the federal government in charge of the Sahara Desert, in 5 years there'd be a shortage of sand. - Friedman

Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself. -Friedman

Nothing is so permanent as a temporary government program. - Friedman

Society will never be free until the last Democrat is strangled with the entrails of the last Communist.
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/10/2016 2:21:07 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
okay Raisor has the funniest answer so far
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
fire_wings
Posts: 5,551
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2016 3:02:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
It gave entertainment, but really, when I think of it, presidency done nothing for me.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
tejretics
Posts: 6,080
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2016 3:59:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
It has done stuff for me in that I've received "free votes," co-hosted a successful tournament, instituted the opt-in system that I use often, and so forth.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Mikal
Posts: 11,269
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2016 6:59:54 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The impact of it is diminished by the fact juggle is absent. Without the ability to be a mediator to juggle, it's useless. If juggle was around, then the relevancy would be far greater.

TLDR

Without juggle to actually implement the ideas of the president who is essentially (the voice of the community), then it only operates as a figure head
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 4:18:52 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.

How did the presidency do that?
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 12:08:13 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 4:18:52 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.

How did the presidency do that?

The Presidency was the vehicle to the absurd RFD standards.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 2:03:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:08:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:18:52 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.

How did the presidency do that?

The Presidency was the vehicle to the absurd RFD standards.

Ok, I need a history lesson. Please explain exactly what happened, and which key members were involved?

On a related note... I was there when anti-democracy people got their will done to have a single vote moderator instead of a group working together (the questionable vote removals under that, I can count on one hand). I don't remember the presidency being involved, but rather short sighted groupthink.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
famousdebater
Posts: 3,937
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 2:51:16 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 12:08:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:18:52 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.

How did the presidency do that?

The Presidency was the vehicle to the absurd RFD standards.

You're confusing moderation and the presidency. They are two different things.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
Axonly
Posts: 1,801
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 5:30:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
In the 4 years and 9 months ive been on the site, the presidency has only ever affected me personally on two occasions:

If you were a woman, you could have had 6.3 babies in that time.
Meh!
twocupcakes
Posts: 2,748
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 5:58:45 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
In the 4 years and 9 months ive been on the site, the presidency has only ever affected me personally on two occasions:

1 - The time I was VP for about 2 weeks
2 - Whenever I decided to troll a presidential election.

Needless to say, the second number I listed isnt necessarily a 'good' quality of the Presidency that someone would list as a reason for keeping it. Certainly not a sane person at least..... But I want to ask the question in the title of the thread to everyone else who is reading this, along with some others.

- What has the presidency done for you?
- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?
- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?
- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site. Meanwhile, a large number of people who are in favor of abolishing the presidency also cannot name any times they have benefitted from its existence or even been affected by it......

Pro-presidency supporters claim that without the Presidency, so much would be lost.... But how much could be lost if almost nobody was even impacted by it in the first place? How much would be lost if programs that exist under the presidency would be allowed to continue under the Convention system I am running on?

Ive campaigned on my system by saying the presidency is useless and should be abolished.... I believe that to be true

Ive campaigned on my system and brought to light that if you like certain programs that exist under the presidency, they will stay in place under my system.... Which is 100% true

Ive campaigned on the belief that even if Conventions dont work, we can always use the convention system to go back to the Presidency system, so no harm no foul if things dont go right...... Which is another truth

There are many different reasons why DDO Conventions should at least be given the opportunity to work, and another reason I am pitching here today is that you should vote for implementing DDO Conventions is because 90% of the people reading this very sentence have never once been impacted or positively affected by the presidency a single time in all the months and years theyve been on the site.

Well there is the aqueduct.
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
- What has the presidency done for you?

It created the opportunity for me to mentor new debaters and judges through the president-created new member mentor program. While I *could* have done that without such an initiative, having that program in place helped crystallize the project in an organized manner that still works well to this day.

- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?

Ohhhh yeah. Shoutout to my homie Mikal.

- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?

Never.

- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

When was the last time he even made one?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be. The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
sadolite
Posts: 8,834
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/12/2016 10:57:38 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 2:51:16 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 6/12/2016 12:08:13 PM, sadolite wrote:
At 6/12/2016 4:18:52 AM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/11/2016 8:11:30 PM, sadolite wrote:
To be frank and honest, it has totally and completely turned me off from voting on debates. Other than that, nothing.

How did the presidency do that?

The Presidency was the vehicle to the absurd RFD standards.

You're confusing moderation and the presidency. They are two different things.

So that means the Presidency is even more feckless and useless than previously thought.
It's not your views that divide us, it's what you think my views should be that divides us.

If you think I will give up my rights and forsake social etiquette to make you "FEEL" better you are sadly mistaken

If liberal democrats would just stop shooting people gun violence would drop by 90%
tejretics
Posts: 6,080
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 6:17:44 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/11/2016 6:59:54 PM, Mikal wrote:
The impact of it is diminished by the fact juggle is absent. Without the ability to be a mediator to juggle, it's useless. If juggle was around, then the relevancy would be far greater.


TLDR

Without juggle to actually implement the ideas of the president who is essentially (the voice of the community), then it only operates as a figure head

Your "tl;dr" is the same length as the substantive version.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:33:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
- What has the presidency done for you?

It created the opportunity for me to mentor new debaters and judges through the president-created new member mentor program. While I *could* have done that without such an initiative, having that program in place helped crystallize the project in an organized manner that still works well to this day.

- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?

Ohhhh yeah. Shoutout to my homie Mikal.

- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?

Never.

- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

When was the last time he even made one?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be. The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.

I was typing up a large thread responding to this, but I clicked the close window button on accident, and had to go to work, so I decided I'd do it tomorrow.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:41:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 6:17:44 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/11/2016 6:59:54 PM, Mikal wrote:
The impact of it is diminished by the fact juggle is absent. Without the ability to be a mediator to juggle, it's useless. If juggle was around, then the relevancy would be far greater.


TLDR

Without juggle to actually implement the ideas of the president who is essentially (the voice of the community), then it only operates as a figure head

Your "tl;dr" is the same length as the substantive version.

No, the TL;dr is 8 words shorter.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
tejretics
Posts: 6,080
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:42:01 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 7:41:19 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:44 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/11/2016 6:59:54 PM, Mikal wrote:
The impact of it is diminished by the fact juggle is absent. Without the ability to be a mediator to juggle, it's useless. If juggle was around, then the relevancy would be far greater.


TLDR

Without juggle to actually implement the ideas of the president who is essentially (the voice of the community), then it only operates as a figure head

Your "tl;dr" is the same length as the substantive version.

No, the TL;dr is 8 words shorter.

I know... I meant there was no point to the tl;dr considering the relative length.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,812
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:44:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 7:42:01 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/13/2016 7:41:19 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/13/2016 6:17:44 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 6/11/2016 6:59:54 PM, Mikal wrote:
The impact of it is diminished by the fact juggle is absent. Without the ability to be a mediator to juggle, it's useless. If juggle was around, then the relevancy would be far greater.


TLDR

Without juggle to actually implement the ideas of the president who is essentially (the voice of the community), then it only operates as a figure head

Your "tl;dr" is the same length as the substantive version.

No, the TL;dr is 8 words shorter.

I know... I meant there was no point to the tl;dr considering the relative length.

You just tried to clarify yourself to an obvious troll comment. Let that sink in.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:52:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 7:33:14 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
- What has the presidency done for you?

It created the opportunity for me to mentor new debaters and judges through the president-created new member mentor program. While I *could* have done that without such an initiative, having that program in place helped crystallize the project in an organized manner that still works well to this day.

- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?

Ohhhh yeah. Shoutout to my homie Mikal.

- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?

Never.

- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

When was the last time he even made one?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be. The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.

I was typing up a large thread responding to this, but I clicked the close window button on accident, and had to go to work, so I decided I'd do it tomorrow.

I think it's time for a primary between you and harder.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:57:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 7:52:10 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/13/2016 7:33:14 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
- What has the presidency done for you?

It created the opportunity for me to mentor new debaters and judges through the president-created new member mentor program. While I *could* have done that without such an initiative, having that program in place helped crystallize the project in an organized manner that still works well to this day.

- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?

Ohhhh yeah. Shoutout to my homie Mikal.

- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?

Never.

- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

When was the last time he even made one?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be. The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.

I was typing up a large thread responding to this, but I clicked the close window button on accident, and had to go to work, so I decided I'd do it tomorrow.

I think it's time for a primary between you and harder.

We're waiting to see Harder's response.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

OFFICIAL DK/TUF 2016 Platform: http://www.debate.org...

My Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com...
#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

-- DK/TUF 2016 --
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 8:02:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 7:57:53 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 6/13/2016 7:52:10 AM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/13/2016 7:33:14 AM, donald.keller wrote:
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:
- What has the presidency done for you?

It created the opportunity for me to mentor new debaters and judges through the president-created new member mentor program. While I *could* have done that without such an initiative, having that program in place helped crystallize the project in an organized manner that still works well to this day.

- Has any President done anything that kept you on the site when you otherwise would have left?

Ohhhh yeah. Shoutout to my homie Mikal.

- When was the last time a Presidential update thread made by Bsh actually impacted you?

Never.

- When was the last time you even bothered to read a Presidential update thread made by Bsh?

When was the last time he even made one?

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be. The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.

I was typing up a large thread responding to this, but I clicked the close window button on accident, and had to go to work, so I decided I'd do it tomorrow.

I think it's time for a primary between you and harder.

We're waiting to see Harder's response.

https://i.imgflip.com...
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 3:02:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:
At 6/10/2016 12:48:37 AM, imabench wrote:

A large number of people who are in favor of keeping the presidency have not benefitted or even be affected by it in all the time they've been on the site.

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be.

The nature of the presidency itself though indicates that it would though. This is an over-glorified community organizer position on a site where people can become completely inactive for a week and not miss anything.... The impact a presidency would have on people is very limited due to how little the presidency can impact the site to begin with.

The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

But the main candidates who are in the race are running to either decentralize the presidency further, or to abolish it completely.... A position cannot and will not become 'more' impactful if all the major candidates in the race are running to reduce its power and influence. That means the only direction the influence of the presidency can go is downwards.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

The community efforts fell short because they dont have much impact on the site to begin with.... Everyone on the pro-presidency side makes a big deal about new user mentorship and beginners tournaments on here, but the reality is that such programs affect very few people and those they do affect barely effects them at all. If you look at any beginner tournament in previous months, 90% of participants in them are either inactive or off the site completely...... Bsh's presidency didnt 'fall short' due to lack of advisors or a lack of a cabinet, it fell short simply because community programs have very little impact on the site.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Blind hope isnt going to vanish in 6 months because if DK or 1harder gets elected and then do a terrible job for some reason, pro-presidency supporters will just back a different pro-presidency candidate who campaigns to improve the presidency for the better..... Juggle hasnt been on the site for years now. The Presidency isnt going to change to become a position of importance, and to hold out hope that someone will somehow do exactly that or that Juggle will miraculously return to the site is a fools errand.

Thus, I see no real reason to end it just yet when we have two brilliant candidates running with the intent to do what really needed to be done here back when Juggle first decided to put us on the back-burner for awhile (re-define and re-establish the value of the presidency). I also see no reason to dismiss them based on the performance of Bsh1, since they are both different than him not only in personality and intent, but more so in the ideas they've put forth to accomplish the task that needs to be done. I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

"Temporary"..... Theyre GONE dude. They have other sites they operate are making way more money for them then DDO could ever generate through ad-revenue. Its more likely that Juggle will simply sell all of us to some other owner for $$$ than it is for them to suddenly return to the site.

TL;DR - The hope still exists in my mind since both candidates understand the shift that has taken place since Juggle's departure, and Bsh1's performance shouldn't impact the hope for the next batch of candidates since they aren't him or trying to mimic his own efforts. Ultimately, we can revisit the idea of abolishment in only 6 short months should they not perform up to par.

Even if they dont perform up to par, pro-presidency supporters will just find some other excuse to support a pro-presidency candidate. Thats all I did when I supported the presidency in the past, I just would move from one excuse to another before finally realizing that the whole thing is a pointless position.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Ragnar
Posts: 1,658
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 6:12:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 3:02:22 PM, imabench wrote:
Even if they dont perform up to par, pro-presidency supporters will just find some other excuse to support a pro-presidency candidate. Thats all I did when I supported the presidency in the past, I just would move from one excuse to another before finally realizing that the whole thing is a pointless position.

Should DK win next month's election and fail to improve things (not to say wave a magic wand and fix everything), I swear you will have my vote come the January election.
Unofficial DDO Guide: http://goo.gl...
(It's probably the best help resource here, other than talking to people...)

Voting Standards: https://goo.gl...

And please disable Smart-Quotes: https://goo.gl...
imabench
Posts: 21,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/13/2016 7:01:57 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 6:12:55 PM, Ragnar wrote:
At 6/13/2016 3:02:22 PM, imabench wrote:
Even if they dont perform up to par, pro-presidency supporters will just find some other excuse to support a pro-presidency candidate. Thats all I did when I supported the presidency in the past, I just would move from one excuse to another before finally realizing that the whole thing is a pointless position.

Should DK win next month's election and fail to improve things (not to say wave a magic wand and fix everything), I swear you will have my vote come the January election.

Im most likely not even going to run in the January election
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Blade-of-Truth
Posts: 5,020
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/14/2016 1:34:29 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/13/2016 3:02:22 PM, imabench wrote:
At 6/12/2016 7:50:43 PM, Blade-of-Truth wrote:

I don't think this is necessarily fair. Just because Bsh1's presidency wasn't that impactful doesn't mean that DK or Harder's wouldn't be.

The nature of the presidency itself though indicates that it would though. This is an over-glorified community organizer position on a site where people can become completely inactive for a week and not miss anything.... The impact a presidency would have on people is very limited due to how little the presidency can impact the site to begin with.

While I agree that the duties of the President involve acting, in part, as a community organizer, I also think your assumption that this site is a place where one won't miss anything if they deactivate for a week isn't necessarily true. We both know there are weeks where it's slow and then weeks where this place is buzzing with activity. The other assumption that the impact of a president is 'very limited' is something entirely in the power of the President to determine. While there are certainly barriers that limit it, in the sense of Juggle being gone, we have to keep in mind that this election is all about redefining the value and purpose of the presidency which, hopefully, will increase its impact once more.

My only issue here is that you're automatically dismissing both DK and Harder without even giving them a shot. I mean, what is there to really lose? The way I see it, the only way we can head is up, and we've got nothing to lose by giving one of them a shot.

The whole point of this election is to redefine the value of the Presidency, to re-evaluate what the purpose is and to create a more impactful purpose that can accomplish or achieve the wants and needs of the general user base as their collective representative.

But the main candidates who are in the race are running to either decentralize the presidency further, or to abolish it completely.... A position cannot and will not become 'more' impactful if all the major candidates in the race are running to reduce its power and influence. That means the only direction the influence of the presidency can go is downwards.

I think you're misrepresenting their intent here. I cannot, nor will, speak on their behalf, but I do believe that they are both putting forth interesting and good policies, efforts, and projects, which all serves to better this site. Again though, I won't speak on their behalf, I just hold the complete opposite view of you in that I think the only direction the influence of the presidency can go is up.

That's the thing about this race. We already know that the value and purpose of the Presidency shifted once their main purpose of being a middle man between the user-base and juggle ended. Since then it has been the President's duty to re-establish and re-define what their value and purpose is. Thus far, we've seen some good efforts to do so, but they've fallen short. Bsh1 had good intentions with his community-based efforts, but fell short mainly because he failed to create a strong support team and then seemingly lost the will to continue. I also fear he might have spread himself to thin, which, again, could have been avoided with a strong support staff.

The community efforts fell short because they dont have much impact on the site to begin with.... Everyone on the pro-presidency side makes a big deal about new user mentorship and beginners tournaments on here, but the reality is that such programs affect very few people and those they do affect barely effects them at all. If you look at any beginner tournament in previous months, 90% of participants in them are either inactive or off the site completely...... Bsh's presidency didnt 'fall short' due to lack of advisors or a lack of a cabinet, it fell short simply because community programs have very little impact on the site.

I disagree. I think that *his* community programs didn't have much impact on the site, not that *all* community programs don't have much impact. Even with that said, not all of his programs were flops, and there are many people that found great joy and entertainment from them over the course of his presidency. To look at his success or failures and make assumptions from that about the next batch of candidates isn't fair though. They both deserve a shot, and hopefully one of them will prove your position wrong over time. If we don't give them a chance though, we'll never know, and trying to rob them of that chance based on mere assumptions is just ludicrous in my opinion.

Both DK and Harder each have unique approaches in their campaigns and I see no reason why we should automatically dismiss them before even giving one of them a shot. I only think the Presidency should be abolished if there is no hope whatsoever in our efforts to redefine the purpose and impact of the presidency. At this point, there's still hope. Besides, it's not like we can't just revisit the idea of abolishment 6 months from now if they do happen to fall short.

Blind hope isnt going to vanish in 6 months because if DK or 1harder gets elected and then do a terrible job for some reason,

Do you genuinely believe that DK or Harder are going to do a terrible job? I don't, and see no reason to even assume such a thing. I'm not saying your own position and campaign doesn't have some good points, because you do, but the way you're dismissing them based on assumptions doesn't seem right to me.

I've spoken in-depth with both about what this site needs from a Presidency since Juggle's temporary departure and they both understand what needs to happen.

"Temporary"..... Theyre GONE dude. They have other sites they operate are making way more money for them then DDO could ever generate through ad-revenue. Its more likely that Juggle will simply sell all of us to some other owner for $$$ than it is for them to suddenly return to the site.

I agree that they're gone for the time being, but to claim that they're gone for good isn't right because we honestly don't know that. Until Airmax tells me that he has no way of contacting them whatsoever, I can't agree with you and say that they're gone for good. It's all about looking at the glass as half full rather than half empty, and in this case there's always a chance that they'll invest time and energy into this site at some point down the road.
Debate.org Deputy Vote Moderator
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
DDO Voting Guide: http://www.debate.org...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Need a judge on your debate? Nominate me! http://www.debate.org...