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My dream for DDO

zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Everything I've been saying about DDO is true, but really, it's not good to be negative too much. Yes, there's alot of improvements this site needs, but I want to talk about the good on DDO, and the potential it has.

DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,849
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6/16/2016 3:55:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Everything I've been saying about DDO is true, but really, it's not good to be negative too much. Yes, there's alot of improvements this site needs, but I want to talk about the good on DDO, and the potential it has.

DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

Omg, run already.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

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zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/16/2016 3:57:00 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:55:40 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Everything I've been saying about DDO is true, but really, it's not good to be negative too much. Yes, there's alot of improvements this site needs, but I want to talk about the good on DDO, and the potential it has.

DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

Omg, run already.

Really, I don't want to run. I'd only run if I would win and knew I could change the site.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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6/16/2016 3:59:55 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Everything I've been saying about DDO is true, but really, it's not good to be negative too much. Yes, there's alot of improvements this site needs, but I want to talk about the good on DDO, and the potential it has.

DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

PetersSmith says to "run," I say don't or you won't be able to focus of freely expressing the ideas you have been. You will face constant criticism like bsh1 has faced. I'd like to see you flex influence on here without an official title.
Rosalie
Posts: 4,612
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6/16/2016 4:11:52 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 4:07:53 AM, Wylted wrote:
You've prepared for debates before? What is that like?

You tell us. ;)
" We need more videos of cat's playing the piano on the internet" - My art professor.

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Officially Mrs. 16Kadams 8-30-16
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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6/16/2016 4:14:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 4:11:52 AM, Rosalie wrote:
At 6/16/2016 4:07:53 AM, Wylted wrote:
You've prepared for debates before? What is that like?

You tell us. ;)

I never prepare. I feel like if I am too comfortable with the subject I'll get bored. Where as if I don't know much than I'll have motivation to keep looking into it. I have a curious mind.
imabench
Posts: 21,229
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6/16/2016 4:17:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

*fails to list any of the steps or solutions needed to do any of the things he wants to do*
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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6/16/2016 11:10:05 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
My dream for DDO is winning the lottery, buying it, and selling it to a North Korean propoganda agency.
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2016 11:53:51 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Indeed.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

Yep.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

Yes.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

I don't care about the swearing filter, since it's possible to bypass it.

I strongly disagree with you on vote removal - votes that don't meet the bare minimum standard ought to be removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

No.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

x100

I have no clue why anyone cares about winning before they debate. I used to, but it's irrational. The amount of fun debating brings and the amount of knowledge you get from debating awesome debaters is massive.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
Posts: 6,093
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6/16/2016 11:54:38 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
The vote moderation system is among my favorite parts of DDO's format generally - it ensures that you get good feedback and strong RFD's, or nothing at all, because bad RFD's are worse than the lack of RFD's.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
Krazzy_Player
Posts: 552
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6/16/2016 12:49:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Everything I've been saying about DDO is true, but really, it's not good to be negative too much. Yes, there's alot of improvements this site needs, but I want to talk about the good on DDO, and the potential it has.

DDO is by far the best option for online debating currently. The setup is terrific. The way the debates are setup is really great. Of course, there's always tweaks which could be done to help improve it, but the debate setup is really well done.

Also, DDO has a fantastic userbase. Many of the great users have left, but there's still a decent amount of good users around, and this gives me hope.

All that being said, DDO could potentially be the most popular and best website for fun discussion. It could be the YouTube of thinking and arguing.

I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely. Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate. The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it. The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

DDO is at its death stage, Unless Juggle comes, You can't do nothing.
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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6/16/2016 1:06:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely.

That is done all the time here. Pay a visit the politics, society, or religion forum.

Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

People have been complaining about this for years, but Juggle isn't around to really do anything about it. Even if they were, I am not sure they would for fear of deterring their younger audience. DDO has more 13-18 kids than adults.

Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate.

That is starting to be the case with the existence of the VU. At several points this month, I was finding more quality voters then there were debates earlier on.

The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

Bullsh1t. People can vote well and have fun reading and learning still. I am sick of the bandwagon that moderation is too strict, I know plenty of good consistent voters who have helped the Voters Union garner over 50 votes in less than two weeks, all generally quality votes that provided the debaters with good feedback and met the standards for vote moderation. The old voting on DDO sucked. People like to gripe and complain whenever there is change, even when that change is for the better.

People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it.

Tell that to mikal. Eh who knows, maybe he does have fun. I thought he said at one point though that it was about being the best.

The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

I generally don't complain about votes, but I could understand someone being a little pissed off at having put a lot of work into a serious debate just to have someone give a sh1t vote that shows they put no effort into reading the debate. I can still have fun debating and be okay with losing, as long as I learn from the RFD to know what I can do better on and improve.

Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

Other than zaradi's vote, most the votes on that debate are sh1t.

So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

Like what? Juggle coming back online? Good luck with that one. Removing moderation? Good luck with that one too. I am pretty sure airmax won't budge on removing vote moderation unless the majority of DDO expressed interest in doing that, and the people that do advocate for the old sh1tty way of voting aren't enough to make a difference.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
TUF
Posts: 21,310
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6/16/2016 1:21:09 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
http://www.debate.org...

In the off chance zmike refuses this debate challenge, I will open the topic up to whomever else wants to debate it with me. Site voting is an issue I feel strongly about and am willing to defend at length.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/16/2016 9:36:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 11:54:38 AM, tejretics wrote:
The vote moderation system is among my favorite parts of DDO's format generally - it ensures that you get good feedback and strong RFD's, or nothing at all, because bad RFD's are worse than the lack of RFD's.

Like I said, there should be some voting moderation on the site, but not to the point that a person who read the debate and believes one person won can't vote.

I mean, if you're worried about voter bias, a person could just make up an "eligible" vote, and votebomb you. I've had many votes on my debates where I scratched my head wondering if they even understood my arguments, but technically their votes were valid.

Obviously voluntary voting on an internet website will always go by the honor system. The question comes down to "What sort of votes do we want to allow, and what do we not want to allow?" We can not end votebombing. That is completely impossible. If someone wants to votebomb you, they will do it.

I'd argue that possibly this sort of votebomb is more dangerous.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,093
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6/16/2016 9:47:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/16/2016 1:06:55 PM, TUF wrote:
At 6/16/2016 3:53:55 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
I imagine a DDO where users are free to discuss the most controversial topics and can express themselves freely.

That is done all the time here. Pay a visit the politics, society, or religion forum.

I didn't know those forums existed. Can you please send me a link to them?


Where we don't have to put up with censorship of words that are "too naughty" and not every mediocre vote gets flagged and removed.

People have been complaining about this for years, but Juggle isn't around to really do anything about it. Even if they were, I am not sure they would for fear of deterring their younger audience. DDO has more 13-18 kids than adults.

Look at YouTube or CoD online. That's all 14 year olds, or people with the intelligence of a 14 year old, and they are allowed to say whatever they want. Really, 14 year olds shouldn't be on a debate website if swearing is too scandalous to them. I mean, come on, you're going to run into alot of stuff that offends you on a debate website.


Voting should also be just as much fun as debating and people should vote as often as they debate.

That is starting to be the case with the existence of the VU. At several points this month, I was finding more quality voters then there were debates earlier on.


The two should be done just as frequently, and voting should be just as much fun, but the importance should be placed on debating.

The only way to do this is to reduce the voting restrictions and make the atmosphere more fun.

Bullsh1t. People can vote well and have fun reading and learning still.

Sure.

I am sick of the bandwagon that moderation is too strict, I know plenty of good consistent voters who have helped the Voters Union garner over 50 votes in less than two weeks, all generally quality votes that provided the debaters with good feedback and met the standards for vote moderation. The old voting on DDO sucked. People like to gripe and complain whenever there is change, even when that change is for the better.

You can still have the VU with looser voting standards. The two aren't mutually exclusive. So, your argument here is really completely invalid. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premises by any stretch of the imagination.


People shouldn't care about their debate record. On a perfect DDO, we'd all debate anyone just for the fun of it.

Tell that to mikal. Eh who knows, maybe he does have fun. I thought he said at one point though that it was about being the best.

Of course. He has fun trying to be the best. When he started losing, he became less active since it wasn't as fun.


The most fun debates I've had were the ones I prepared for absolutely zero and didn't care if I won. Stop taking your debates so seriously. Stop whining every time someone votes against you and you don't like it. Of course, winning all the time is fun too, but let's be realistic, nobody wins every debate.

I generally don't complain about votes, but I could understand someone being a little pissed off at having put a lot of work into a serious debate just to have someone give a sh1t vote that shows they put no effort into reading the debate. I can still have fun debating and be okay with losing, as long as I learn from the RFD to know what I can do better on and improve.

You really shouldn't take it all that seriously. If someone makes an obvious and horrible votebomb, yes, that should be reported. But if an unintelligent person who doesn't understand your debate well thinks your opponent was more convincing, maybe it means you need to work on your skill to convince less intelligent people.



Imagine if we had three debates like this *every* week:

http://www.debate.org...

This debate has more votes than comments.

Other than zaradi's vote, most the votes on that debate are sh1t.

Yeah, but obviously everyone had fun. Except for maybe Mikal because we all know he just wants to win.


So yes. DDO is far better than any other alternative. But it still has the potential to be an incredible site, and there are steps that need to be taken to make it that way.

Like what? Juggle coming back online? Good luck with that one. Removing moderation? Good luck with that one too. I am pretty sure airmax won't budge on removing vote moderation unless the majority of DDO expressed interest in doing that, and the people that do advocate for the old sh1tty way of voting aren't enough to make a difference.

The first step is to change the general public opinion on DDO. And already, many users either sympathize with what I have been saying or agree strongly.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."