Total Posts:38|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

A DDO Study

zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I will be conducting research on the voting on DDO. Here's what I will do:

Starting about 4 years ago, I will randomly select 10 debate from every month. I will note down how many votes were cast on the debate, and how many comments were cast.

I just did 6 months from 2011, and 1 month from 2016 (May, last month). Of course, this isn't a definitive answer, but the average amount of votes on a debate from those 6 months of 2011 was 4.1 whereas the average amount of votes on a debate for the month of May this year was 0.6 votes.

Like I said, this is probably not accurate. However, in the 6 months I did do, debates typically got anywhere from 3-6 votes on average. There were far less debates that ended in 0 votes. That was the big factor on the month of May. Also, in 2011 there were many debate challenges by 000ike, thett3, imabench, bluesteel, brianeggleston, etc. who were typically more popular.

Comments went from an average of 11.28 in the last six months of 2011 to 4.9.

Of course, this could just be random error. However, if the standard deviation of the amount of votes cast within the last year is anything like it was in 2011, then an average of 1 vote per debate for the last month seems likely.

I will report more when I finish the study. I really wish I could use every single debate ever, instead of 10 random ones per month, but I don't have the time to wade through 50,000 debates.

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
PetersSmith
Posts: 5,843
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:09:49 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
I will be conducting research on the voting on DDO. Here's what I will do:

Starting about 4 years ago, I will randomly select 10 debate from every month. I will note down how many votes were cast on the debate, and how many comments were cast.

I just did 6 months from 2011, and 1 month from 2016 (May, last month). Of course, this isn't a definitive answer, but the average amount of votes on a debate from those 6 months of 2011 was 4.1 whereas the average amount of votes on a debate for the month of May this year was 0.6 votes.

Like I said, this is probably not accurate. However, in the 6 months I did do, debates typically got anywhere from 3-6 votes on average. There were far less debates that ended in 0 votes. That was the big factor on the month of May. Also, in 2011 there were many debate challenges by 000ike, thett3, imabench, bluesteel, brianeggleston, etc. who were typically more popular.

Comments went from an average of 11.28 in the last six months of 2011 to 4.9.

Of course, this could just be random error. However, if the standard deviation of the amount of votes cast within the last year is anything like it was in 2011, then an average of 1 vote per debate for the last month seems likely.

I will report more when I finish the study. I really wish I could use every single debate ever, instead of 10 random ones per month, but I don't have the time to wade through 50,000 debates.

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


We can conclude from these results that it's all whiteflame's fault.
Empress of DDO (also Poll and Forum "Maintenance" Moderator)

"The two most important days in your life is the day you were born, and the day you find out why."
~Mark Twain

"Wow"
-Doge

"Don't believe everything you read on the internet just because there's a picture with a quote next to it."
~Abraham Lincoln

Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:15:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:09:49 AM, PetersSmith wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
I will be conducting research on the voting on DDO. Here's what I will do:

Starting about 4 years ago, I will randomly select 10 debate from every month. I will note down how many votes were cast on the debate, and how many comments were cast.

I just did 6 months from 2011, and 1 month from 2016 (May, last month). Of course, this isn't a definitive answer, but the average amount of votes on a debate from those 6 months of 2011 was 4.1 whereas the average amount of votes on a debate for the month of May this year was 0.6 votes.

Like I said, this is probably not accurate. However, in the 6 months I did do, debates typically got anywhere from 3-6 votes on average. There were far less debates that ended in 0 votes. That was the big factor on the month of May. Also, in 2011 there were many debate challenges by 000ike, thett3, imabench, bluesteel, brianeggleston, etc. who were typically more popular.

Comments went from an average of 11.28 in the last six months of 2011 to 4.9.

Of course, this could just be random error. However, if the standard deviation of the amount of votes cast within the last year is anything like it was in 2011, then an average of 1 vote per debate for the last month seems likely.

I will report more when I finish the study. I really wish I could use every single debate ever, instead of 10 random ones per month, but I don't have the time to wade through 50,000 debates.

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


We can conclude from these results that it's all whiteflame's fault.

Don't jump to any conclusions yet. These first impressions may turn out to be wrong.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Beginner
Posts: 4,292
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 5:20:50 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

Hmm.. this does put things into perspective. There seems to be a growth in number and a lack of similar growth in the number of readers. Maybe DDO isn't made out for larger number of users than it had way back when.
Senpai has noticed you.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 11:49:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I will also examine how stuff like changing the front page, vote moderation, presidency elections, etc. affects the amount of votes.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
TUF
Posts: 21,309
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 2:21:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Is there a specific purpose for this study? What do you mean the results aren't meant to be "intepreted"? I am calling BS that the purpose of this study isn't to somehow make a point about voting being less based on your other comments about the lack of voting around the forums leading into the conclusion that the site is going downhill somehow. However despite the results of your study, it really doesn't prove your point. As imabench pointed out there are a plethora of new members creating way more debates; but that doesn't even begin to touch on the quality of these debates.

So that's what we need to ask first; do crappy troll debates with less than a paragraph in each round, or forfeited debates deserve as much attention for voters as quality ones? I personally don't care about those debates getting 0-0 and don't bother looking at them. I think a lot of other users feel that way too but if you love reading and voting on them, knock yourself out but try not to lose too many brain cells in the process.

The fact of the matter is most of the debates on this site are debates like that; troll debates from young new members. I say this with confidence as being a moderator of the VU requires me to sift through the debates in the voting period quite often just to find maybe 1 or 2 worthy debates to be submitted to the VU per 3 pages (by worthy I mean debates that prima facie seem to be quality efforts, and doesn't account for debates where one side or both wasted 8,000 characters arguing semantics or used bad conduct).

Of debates that are quality from serious debaters, I could prove to you easily that most will receive a good vote or two with the rare exception of a debate that isn't submitted to the VU and for some reason isn't found from my sifting or just isn't an interesting read (and this is pretty rare).

At the end of the day, your study has to have some impact even if you are claiming there is none, otherwise you are kind of wasting your time telling people what we already know for no reason. Sure debates overall have less numbers in voting and comments. What's the point? Are you trying to prove that we need more quality debaters? Tell that to juggle who make the site features like polls and opinions to attract the younger crowd. Are you trying to say updating the site will help bring in more members? If so your probably correct. People have been b1tching about lack of site development for years with no response, I am not sure your study will really effect Juggles outlook. Even if they did bother to read your study results, they are a business who at the end of the day makes money off of new members who are probably clicking on advertisements. The active community members like you and me while being big voices in the forums, have overall much less impact on their revenue then the troll debaters who spam debates and polls for search engines to crawl through and attract even more members. The state of DDO isn't great for members who care about debating and voting more than anything else but I feel like people misdirect blame onto presidency, and vote moderation far too often for these things when overall there impact only betters these things. And I know you refused my previous challenge but I'd be more than happy to debate you on THAT resolution as well.

Tl;dr, your study at face value won't prove anything people don't already know, and active community members have been doing there best to solve issues with voting and debating. If your only impact is that people have fun by voting sh1ttily and getting away with it, you won't convince many people. And you may feel differently when it happens to one of your debates. That said I disagree that people don't have fun spending a little more time on an RFD and providing quality feedback.

This is a repeat of the argument I had with RoyLatham like a week ago lol.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:08:15 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

Lol, If you actually did care about providing some sort of insight to voting patterns on the site, then you wouldnt be suppressing people from adding more context to the study to make its reults more accurate...... To try to cancel out context only implies youre just trying to push a false narrative here, rather then actually try to provide insight....
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 3:36:19 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 5:20:50 AM, Beginner wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

Hmm.. this does put things into perspective. There seems to be a growth in number and a lack of similar growth in the number of readers. Maybe DDO isn't made out for larger number of users than it had way back when.

I dont think that DDO cant handle a large traffic of debates and users, I think that the type of users DDO attracts has changed for the worse......

The Opinions and Polls section were the 2nd to last major update from Juggle (The most recent being changes to how debates can be voted on), and the Polls + Opinions section were installed for the sole and clear purpose of attracting more users to the site. The Polls and Opinions werent features that DDO users requested, but they were installed anyways to try to bring more people onto DDO.

The good news is that it worked. DDO has mushroomed in population compared to what it used to be after both features were installed

The bad news is that it even though it worked, it brought the wrong type of people to DDO.

Before, the type of people who came to DDO were those who not only wanted to express their opinions, but also defend them against a challenger and then have those opinions and beliefs be voted on by a jury of one's peers...... It was a system that appealed to people who were opinionated, but also were open-minded enough to want to hear arguments other people had to say + want to read debates other people made + want to vote on other debates people made....... When the site revolved around debating, it appealed to a segment of people that DDO best functions around = People who debate + read + comment on other debates.

The polls and opinion sections though appeal to a different kind of people...... Polls and opinions are for people who want to express their opinions, and thats it. They arent attracting to people who are people interested in what others have to say, or people who are willing to actually stand up for their beliefs against a challenger..... The polls and opinion sections only try to attract people who have opinions and want to express them. People who are more geared towards expressing their own opinions naturally are people who are geared to debate, but at the same time are people who are far, far less likely to vote or comment on other people's debates.....

Check the leaderboards of the polls section.... The top 5 people all have single-digit amounts for debates theyve made or debates theyve voted on.... http://www.debate.org... Some poll-leaders havent voted on a single debate ever!

The same is also just about true for the opinions leaderboard, where the top 5 people on the leaderboard either have single-digit debates theyve made, or single-digit votes theyve casted on other peoples debates: http://www.debate.org...

TL:DR

Part of the reason why there are so many more debates but not more voters and commenters is because the Polls and Opinions sections only appeal to those who want to express their opinions rather then learn about other arguments or about other beliefs people hold..... Go check the debate challenge section. Ill bet any amount of money that a majority of open debates are made by people who are brand new to the site, and that its a branch of people who are not interested in voting on other debates already in the voting period, even though there is no shortage of debates that need to be voted on.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
Mikal
Posts: 11,270
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 4:53:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I think there are a plethora of reasons that attribute to a downward trend in activity on debates, both in voting and the comments. Comments in a debate are often fueled by RFDS. DK vs Emil, Blue vs Ino, etc. Debates with lots of votes lead to people questioning those votes in the comments page which leads to drama. That is like 90 percent of comments most of the time

So a lack of votes on debates would attribute to a lack of responses in the comments. So they kind of go hand in hand.

The over regulation that people now perceive from voting standards is definitely one thing that turns people off. I also think quite a bit of it is a influx of new members, and the older more well known members not debating at all. Every time I use to do a debate, I would end up with like 5k views and 5-30 votes. Some of it from asking people to vote, alot of it from perception of being on top of the leaderboard. The same is true with bluesteel and roy. When you have controversial (imabench) or big name people debating it draws in people. Take your debate with arimax. Every time max is in a debate it gets lots of votes and views.

Any sample size that you can collect is going to be hard an most likely flawed without isolating certain factors because there is a influx of new members creating debates and not finishing them, and because the lack of debaters with reputation doing actual debates.

I think the only super hard fix is to scale down the voting standards a little ( i know there is a opt out system but most new members who get their votes removed are not aware of this and it deters them). I'm not quite sure what the balance is for proper moderation vs lack of, and whiteflame does a great job with the standards that are in place. Some how there has to be balance between not deterring people with high voting standards (there is really no strict standards, in place this is just the perception of people but the perception has to be fixed) and getting more of the "elite" people to debate again.
lannan13
Posts: 23,065
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 10:26:52 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?

I have no idea what you mean. There simply aren't 18 votes on debates nowadays on average.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 10:27:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?

Sample standard deviation for the 2011 average was 1.09.

So typically anywhere from 3-5 votes per debate.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 10:36:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 4:53:20 PM, Mikal wrote:
I think there are a plethora of reasons that attribute to a downward trend in activity on debates, both in voting and the comments. Comments in a debate are often fueled by RFDS. DK vs Emil, Blue vs Ino, etc. Debates with lots of votes lead to people questioning those votes in the comments page which leads to drama. That is like 90 percent of comments most of the time

So a lack of votes on debates would attribute to a lack of responses in the comments. So they kind of go hand in hand.

The over regulation that people now perceive from voting standards is definitely one thing that turns people off. I also think quite a bit of it is a influx of new members, and the older more well known members not debating at all. Every time I use to do a debate, I would end up with like 5k views and 5-30 votes. Some of it from asking people to vote, alot of it from perception of being on top of the leaderboard. The same is true with bluesteel and roy. When you have controversial (imabench) or big name people debating it draws in people. Take your debate with arimax. Every time max is in a debate it gets lots of votes and views.

Any sample size that you can collect is going to be hard an most likely flawed without isolating certain factors because there is a influx of new members creating debates and not finishing them, and because the lack of debaters with reputation doing actual debates.


I think the only super hard fix is to scale down the voting standards a little ( i know there is a opt out system but most new members who get their votes removed are not aware of this and it deters them). I'm not quite sure what the balance is for proper moderation vs lack of, and whiteflame does a great job with the standards that are in place. Some how there has to be balance between not deterring people with high voting standards (there is really no strict standards, in place this is just the perception of people but the perception has to be fixed) and getting more of the "elite" people to debate again.

I agree. I'm not anti-moderation per se. I'm anti-moderation that chokes out votes and how much people interact on a debate.

We can definitely have alot of votes, as well as good votes. There is no dilemma between the two.

This is why I am doing my research. I want to discover more about how certain moderation policies may affect vote amounts, as well as other factors.

For example, in 2011, there was a big sectio non the home page that said "Debates in the votign period." Not just three debates were listed, rather there were probably 10 or 15. It was really encouraging people to vote.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
lannan13
Posts: 23,065
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 10:50:07 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 10:26:52 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?

I have no idea what you mean. There simply aren't 18 votes on debates nowadays on average.

I mean the average posted on the amount that is in circulation.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 11:02:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 10:50:07 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:26:52 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?

I have no idea what you mean. There simply aren't 18 votes on debates nowadays on average.

I mean the average posted on the amount that is in circulation.

How do you define "in circulation"?
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
lannan13
Posts: 23,065
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/21/2016 11:36:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 11:02:42 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:50:07 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:26:52 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?

I have no idea what you mean. There simply aren't 18 votes on debates nowadays on average.

I mean the average posted on the amount that is in circulation.

How do you define "in circulation"?

Using the numbers Bench gave us times your stats.
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-Lannan13'S SIGNATURE-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-

If the sky's the limit then why do we have footprints on the Moon? I'm shooting my aspirations for the stars.

"If you are going through hell, keep going." "Sir Winston Churchill

"No one can make you feel inferior without your consent." "Eleanor Roosevelt

Topics I want to debate. (http://tinyurl.com...)
-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 12:12:39 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 11:36:11 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 11:02:42 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:50:07 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:26:52 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:06:20 PM, lannan13 wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:29:54 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:26:47 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:02:25 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

2011: Average of 4 votes per debate
May 2016: Average of 0.6 votes per debate

2011: Average of 11.3 comments per debate
May 2016: Average of 4.9 comments per debate


2011: Average of 3 open debates that could be accepted

https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...
https://web.archive.org...

2016: Average of 20 to 30 debates that could be accepted

http://www.debate.org...

Yes the number of comments + votes per debate have shrunk, but that can be attributed in part to the sheer increased number of debates the site has seen..... Voting and commenting could be overall static and the same as it has always been, but because there are so many more debates to diffuse the votes and comments over, it appears that commenting and voting has decreased far more then it actually has.....

There's also more users now I believe. Anyways, the study is about the average voting, not how you interpret it.

True, though wouldn't that be better for the site since we have more members and an increase amount of activity. These averages can easily be spread across these debates. Mathematically it comes to:

2011: 12 votes
2016: 18 votes

2011: 33.9 comments
2016: 147

Which would you rather have?

I have no idea what you mean. There simply aren't 18 votes on debates nowadays on average.

I mean the average posted on the amount that is in circulation.

How do you define "in circulation"?

Using the numbers Bench gave us times your stats.

I'm not sure how that works out. Let's use 2011 data for example.

(4 votes)/(1 debate) * (3 debates) = 12 votes

This just means that the total amount of votes on 3 debates will be 12 votes.

Likewise the total amount of votes on 30 debates will be 18 votes. This really doesn't tell us anything special, and actually works out against you.

This is actually quite bad for your position.

We can easily find how many debates must be required on the new system to get the same amount of votes on the old system. Let's take 4. On the new system, how many debates would it take to get a total of four votes?

4 votes = [(.6 votes)/(1 debate)]*x

Solve for x, votes cancel, x = 6.67

So in 2011, 1 debate would get 4 votes. In order to get a total of 4 votes nowadays, you'd have to look at approximately 7 debates.

So debates back then got approximately 7 times the amount of votes they do nowadays.

Also, if there is an increase of members, there should also be an increase of votes *and* debates, assuming people vote/debate just as often as they did in 2011. If this is not the case, which is probably true, this means that the proportion between how often a user votes and debates has changed.

If votes per debates are less now than in 2016, it means one of three things:

i. People debate more often and vote the same amount.
ii. People debate as often as they did in 2011 but vote less often now.
iii. People debate more often and vote less.

With further research, we could eliminate two of these options and accept one of them. Do people debate more, but vote the same? Do they debate the same but vote less? Or do they both debate more and vote less?

The only solution to show that people don't vote less frequently now than they did in 2011 is, to show that people debate more often than they used to.

I really don't think that's the case. I don't think there has been a change in the correlation between number of members and debates created. If you could show that this proportion is statistically the same now as it was in 2011, then you'd have shown that people vote less often now than they did in 2011.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 12:17:14 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I am working on this. I am going to do some analysis of whether or not users nowadays create more debates than they did in 2011. Of course, if users do create more debates on average nowadays, this doesn't rule out the possibility that people debate more and vote less.

However, if say for every 10 users, there are 100 debates created, and this proportion is statistically the same between now and 2011, the *only* explanation for the change in the amount of votes on debates is that people are voting less. The cause of people voting less is up to debate. (Whether its the homepage structure, voting standards, etc.)

Of course, this all requires further research.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 12:28:27 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Also, with the data I've currently gathered, there doesn't appear to be a correlation between votes and comments on the debate.

Right now, the data from 2011 gave an R^2 of .11. Even by social science standards, this correlation is pretty weak.

Of course, I may not have enough data collected yet, so if the two are actually correlated, it's likely that we wouldn't know this unless I collect more data.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 12:36:21 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 12:12:39 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

If votes per debates are less now than in 2016, it means one of three things:

i. People debate more often and vote the same amount.

Ding

ii. People debate as often as they did in 2011 but vote less often now.
iii. People debate more often and vote less.

With further research, we could eliminate two of these options and accept one of them. Do people debate more, but vote the same? Do they debate the same but vote less? Or do they both debate more and vote less?

The only solution to show that people don't vote less frequently now than they did in 2011 is, to show that people debate more often than they used to.

I really don't think that's the case. I don't think there has been a change in the correlation between number of members and debates created. If you could show that this proportion is statistically the same now as it was in 2011, then you'd have shown that people vote less often now than they did in 2011.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 12:40:48 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 12:36:21 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/22/2016 12:12:39 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

If votes per debates are less now than in 2016, it means one of three things:

i. People debate more often and vote the same amount.

Ding

You can't really assert any of these three hypotheses without further analysis, which I intend to do. I also presented a method by which to know if this first option is false.


ii. People debate as often as they did in 2011 but vote less often now.
iii. People debate more often and vote less.

With further research, we could eliminate two of these options and accept one of them. Do people debate more, but vote the same? Do they debate the same but vote less? Or do they both debate more and vote less?

The only solution to show that people don't vote less frequently now than they did in 2011 is, to show that people debate more often than they used to.

I really don't think that's the case. I don't think there has been a change in the correlation between number of members and debates created. If you could show that this proportion is statistically the same now as it was in 2011, then you'd have shown that people vote less often now than they did in 2011.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 2:11:13 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 10:27:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?

Sample standard deviation for the 2011 average was 1.09.

So typically anywhere from 3-5 votes per debate.

Could you supply the sample standard deviation for May 2016 as well, and do a two-sample Student's t-test? Thanks. :)
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 2:28:02 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 2:11:13 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:27:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?

Sample standard deviation for the 2011 average was 1.09.

So typically anywhere from 3-5 votes per debate.

Could you supply the sample standard deviation for May 2016 as well, and do a two-sample Student's t-test? Thanks. :)

Oops that was a standard deviation of the averages for the monthly votes per debate for 2011.

I'm currently working on a way to scrape data, because my sample size is grossly way too small at the moment. I mean, 10 debates out of 500 debates in a month is like sampling 2% of the population, lol.
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."
Diqiucun_Cunmin
Posts: 2,710
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 3:25:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 2:28:02 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/22/2016 2:11:13 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:27:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?

Sample standard deviation for the 2011 average was 1.09.

So typically anywhere from 3-5 votes per debate.

Could you supply the sample standard deviation for May 2016 as well, and do a two-sample Student's t-test? Thanks. :)

Oops that was a standard deviation of the averages for the monthly votes per debate for 2011.

I'm currently working on a way to scrape data, because my sample size is grossly way too small at the moment. I mean, 10 debates out of 500 debates in a month is like sampling 2% of the population, lol.

Population size doesn't matter. As long as you have the right degrees of freedom, Student's t-test will work.
The thing is, I hate relativism. I hate relativism more than I hate everything else, excepting, maybe, fibreglass powerboats... What it overlooks, to put it briefly and crudely, is the fixed structure of human nature. - Jerry Fodor

Don't be a stat cynic:
http://www.debate.org...

Response to conservative views on deforestation:
http://www.debate.org...

Topics I'd like to debate (not debating ATM): http://tinyurl.com...
imabench
Posts: 21,219
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 3:39:59 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 12:40:48 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/22/2016 12:36:21 AM, imabench wrote:
At 6/22/2016 12:12:39 AM, zmikecuber wrote:

If votes per debates are less now than in 2016, it means one of three things:

i. People debate more often and vote the same amount.

Ding

You can't really assert any of these three hypotheses without further analysis,

Sure I can.... Its a known fact that the number of users on the site has mushroomed and that the number of debates have mushroomed as well, just by glancing at the challenge section now compared to two years earlier.... Its no longer a question that the number of debates on DDO have gone up.

which I intend to do. I also presented a method by which to know if this first option is false.


ii. People debate as often as they did in 2011 but vote less often now.
iii. People debate more often and vote less.

With further research, we could eliminate two of these options and accept one of them. Do people debate more, but vote the same? Do they debate the same but vote less? Or do they both debate more and vote less?

The only solution to show that people don't vote less frequently now than they did in 2011 is, to show that people debate more often than they used to.

I really don't think that's the case. I don't think there has been a change in the correlation between number of members and debates created. If you could show that this proportion is statistically the same now as it was in 2011, then you'd have shown that people vote less often now than they did in 2011.
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"
Geogeer: "Nobody is dumb enough to become my protege."

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,090
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
6/22/2016 11:09:30 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/22/2016 3:25:19 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/22/2016 2:28:02 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/22/2016 2:11:13 AM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 10:27:39 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
At 6/21/2016 6:10:55 PM, Diqiucun_Cunmin wrote:
At 6/21/2016 4:03:17 AM, zmikecuber wrote:
Probably not accurate because sample size from 2016 is not large enough yet to say with confidence what the average amount of votes per debate it.

What are the standard deviations?

Sample standard deviation for the 2011 average was 1.09.

So typically anywhere from 3-5 votes per debate.

Could you supply the sample standard deviation for May 2016 as well, and do a two-sample Student's t-test? Thanks. :)

Oops that was a standard deviation of the averages for the monthly votes per debate for 2011.

I'm currently working on a way to scrape data, because my sample size is grossly way too small at the moment. I mean, 10 debates out of 500 debates in a month is like sampling 2% of the population, lol.

Population size doesn't matter. As long as you have the right degrees of freedom, Student's t-test will work.

Yes I know, but I want to do correlations and other stuff so I need more data points ;) When I get back from work today though I'll pull out my TI89 and do a 2 sample t-test for you quick ;)
"Delete your fvcking sig" -1hard

"primal man had the habit, when he came into contact with fire, of satisfying the infantile desire connected with it, by putting it out with a stream of his urine... Putting out the fire by micturating was therefore a kind of sexual act with a male, an enjoyment of sexual potency in a homosexual competition."