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How The Presidency Has Helped Us.

donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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6/21/2016 7:11:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
In response to Imabench's thread:

The Presidency has done a lot for the site that I feel many members don't consider, newer members especially. It's easy to not see at times, but there is a lot the Presidency does, directly and indirectly, that benefits the community.

Let's start with experience. The Presidency has given a lot of members a chance to gain experience in running programs, events, and co-hosting projects. Members like me, Tej, and, to my knowledge, Hayd, gained experience running tournaments and programs from the Presidency. Experience that has/will lead to well-ran programs that contribute a lot to the site. The Presidency and it's many programs have presented vast opportunities for members to learn and gain experience that they otherwise wouldn't have received. Especially tournaments, with many different hosts.

The Presidency has also presented new members many opportunities to meet established members. One of the harder parts to getting engaged on the site as a new member is getting involved with experienced members. The programs have helped new members breach the gap between them and older members they can learn from. The mentorship programs and the Beginners Tournament has helped a lot of new members meet, learn from, and get associated with the site's members.

How many of the people reading this were new members with no connections to the site at some point? All of them. And how many of those members got more engaged because they meet older members through the mentorship programs, or a trainer from the Beginner's Tournament? Or through some presidential program? The Presidency, being so connected to new member programs, has served as a great way to get new members engaged.

How many of those people became better debaters from the Beginner's Tournament? Fire_wings, Skepticalone, SolonKR, and many others tested their skills in the Beginner's Tournament.

The Presidency has also, for a long time, helped Airmax... 1harder may believe it's a new idea never before seen in the presidency... But being a liaison is, and since Airmax's presidency, always has been, a job of the President. Whenever there is a large concern among members, Airmax has usually received helped from the Presidency in working with the members to solve the problem.

Every time an issue comes up, members take for granted how involved the Presidency is in helping Airmax solve the issue. Even outside of site problems, Airmax has always been able to rely on the Presidency to help him with anything.

There's plenty the Presidency offers members... More importantly, there is plenty more it CAN offer. It's easy to miss a lot of the benefits the presidency offers, since so much of it is indirect, but the benefits are there, and there are a lot of them. I'd welcome members who have been positively impacted by the Presidency to join me in proving the benefits of the Presidency are real.
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TUF
Posts: 21,301
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6/21/2016 7:31:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Alone, I think the presidency is a pretty exciting thing. Even with the drama that stems from it, I think it can be fun. The presidency to me is an indicator about how organized the central community of the site is, and how we all want to better it. It's not a haphazard thing like Reddit, or 4chan (that have mods, sure but that's different) but the fact that we elect a president to help accomplish goals that we have for the site is pretty amazing to have in an online community. I am not saying the presidency is a requirement for productive things to happen on the site, but just like the google hangouts group, it is a testament to how our community comes together, and it doesn't yield any tangible negative benefits worthy of removing it for.

That said, I think the presidency gives a member a sense of purpose to better the site. It grants recognition and inspiration for someone to go above and beyond what they may normally do to make positive changes for the site (whether you think those impact you or not, doesn't mean they don't impact others). Bsh1's mentor-ship programs, and airmax's old official tourney's, to me were all things that helped members and benefited the site and I am not sure they would have been implemented sans the presidency. Maybe they would, who knows. It gave people like bladerunner an incentive to vote more on the site and actively participate more on that end, so in the long run I see more benefit than harm to the presidency.
"I've got to go and grab a shirt" ~ Airmax1227
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/21/2016 8:41:16 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
The presidency has evolved over time. At first, it was a mere titular position but when innomen got elected, he acted as a liason to juggle and they also allowed him to moderate the site, something that Airmax has continued during his time. A lot of the people trying to kill the presidency don't realize that if it wasn't for the presidency, there would be no Airmax as we know now (as a moderator). If it wasn't for the presidency, this would have been an entirely different site, possibly with no user mods. The presidency has evolved over time from a ceremonial position to one of real power to the current iteration where the presidency is responsible for community outreach, organizing tournaments and other non-moderator based stuff. The presidency is what you make of it (and don't forget, TUF handed out Xboxes as prizes when he was the president because that's how much he cared about the site). What's to say a future president won't sit outside Juggle's office and persuade them to come back?

What the presidency is isn't set in stone. It's about recognizing someone as a community leader and letting them do great things for the site and the community. Being a leader motivates people to do this more than if they are just any other member.

There is no downside to the presidency. None at all. "It causes drama" as a reason to abolish the presidency is as hilarious as it is absurd. People who are not interested in the presidency should simply refrain from voting and recuse themselves from participating in any election-related business. Imposing your views on other people and abolishing something that others want makes little to no sense. I propose that we should continue with presidential elections every six months regardless of if imabench wins. If the "abolitionists" don't want a president, they can feel free to not participate in those elections. Having a site president does not affect their life or their experience on the site in any way. They have no business interfering with the user experience of other people.
zmikecuber
Posts: 4,079
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6/21/2016 10:32:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
These posts are all way too long.
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fire_wings
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6/22/2016 7:49:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 10:32:40 PM, zmikecuber wrote:
These posts are all way too long.

My thoughts.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

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fire_wings
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6/23/2016 4:27:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 7:11:40 PM, donald.keller wrote:
In response to Imabench's thread:

The Presidency has done a lot for the site that I feel many members don't consider, newer members especially. It's easy to not see at times, but there is a lot the Presidency does, directly and indirectly, that benefits the community.

Let's start with experience. The Presidency has given a lot of members a chance to gain experience in running programs, events, and co-hosting projects. Members like me, Tej, and, to my knowledge, Hayd, gained experience running tournaments and programs from the Presidency. Experience that has/will lead to well-ran programs that contribute a lot to the site. The Presidency and it's many programs have presented vast opportunities for members to learn and gain experience that they otherwise wouldn't have received. Especially tournaments, with many different hosts.

The Presidency has also presented new members many opportunities to meet established members. One of the harder parts to getting engaged on the site as a new member is getting involved with experienced members. The programs have helped new members breach the gap between them and older members they can learn from. The mentorship programs and the Beginners Tournament has helped a lot of new members meet, learn from, and get associated with the site's members.

How many of the people reading this were new members with no connections to the site at some point? All of them. And how many of those members got more engaged because they meet older members through the mentorship programs, or a trainer from the Beginner's Tournament? Or through some presidential program? The Presidency, being so connected to new member programs, has served as a great way to get new members engaged.

How many of those people became better debaters from the Beginner's Tournament? Fire_wings, Skepticalone, SolonKR, and many others tested their skills in the Beginner's Tournament.

The Presidency has also, for a long time, helped Airmax... 1harder may believe it's a new idea never before seen in the presidency... But being a liaison is, and since Airmax's presidency, always has been, a job of the President. Whenever there is a large concern among members, Airmax has usually received helped from the Presidency in working with the members to solve the problem.

Every time an issue comes up, members take for granted how involved the Presidency is in helping Airmax solve the issue. Even outside of site problems, Airmax has always been able to rely on the Presidency to help him with anything.

There's plenty the Presidency offers members... More importantly, there is plenty more it CAN offer. It's easy to miss a lot of the benefits the presidency offers, since so much of it is indirect, but the benefits are there, and there are a lot of them. I'd welcome members who have been positively impacted by the Presidency to join me in proving the benefits of the Presidency are real.

I never knew the presidency helped this much.
#ALLHAILFIRETHEKINGOFTHEMISCFORUM

...it's not a new policy... it's just that DDO was built on an ancient burial ground, and that means the spirits of old rise again to cause us problems sometimes- Airmax1227

Wtf you must have an IQ of 250 if you're 11 and already decent at this- 16k

Go to sleep!!!!- missmozart

So to start off, I never committed suicide- Vaarka
imabench
Posts: 21,206
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6/23/2016 7:00:08 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 7:11:40 PM, donald.keller wrote:
In response to Imabench's thread:

That was from literally a week ago.

Let's start with experience. The Presidency has given a lot of members a chance to gain experience in running programs, events, and co-hosting projects. Members like me, Tej, and, to my knowledge, Hayd, gained experience running tournaments and programs from the Presidency. Experience that has/will lead to well-ran programs that contribute a lot to the site. The Presidency and it's many programs have presented vast opportunities for members to learn and gain experience that they otherwise wouldn't have received. Especially tournaments, with many different hosts.

People have hosted and are allowed to host their own tournaments and receive experience without needing a presidency to do so, and people will be more then able to get experience running programs and tournaments they wish to run under the Convention system. The idea that the presidency is responsible for experience gained from tournaments is a stretch.

The Presidency has also presented new members many opportunities to meet established members.

The forums actually do that far better than the presidency ever has and ever will. Simply browsing threads is the easiest way for new members to bump into and converse with experienced members.

The mentorship programs and the Beginners Tournament has helped a lot of new members meet, learn from, and get associated with the site's members.

In just about every beginners tournament that is hosted, 90% of the participants either leave the site shortly after or become inactive to the point that they are not really on the site anymore. Im not sure what percentage of those put into the mentorship program become normal members, but the Beginners tournaments have a 10% success rate at even keeping people on the site, let alone introducing them to experienced members

How many of the people reading this were new members with no connections to the site at some point?

All of us

And how many of those members got more engaged because they meet older members through the mentorship programs, or a trainer from the Beginner's Tournament? Or through some presidential program?

Very few of us.

How many of those people became better debaters from the Beginner's Tournament? Fire_wings, Skepticalone, SolonKR, and many others tested their skills in the Beginner's Tournament.

Looking back at the brackets of some of these beginners tournaments and youll see that most people who participate in them are people you do not recognize because they are now inactive or off the site completely

http://challonge.com...
http://challonge.com...
http://www.debate.org...

The Presidency has also, for a long time, helped Airmax... 1harder may believe it's a new idea never before seen in the presidency... But being a liaison is, and since Airmax's presidency, always has been, a job of the President. Whenever there is a large concern among members, Airmax has usually received helped from the Presidency in working with the members to solve the problem.

Airmax is allowed to consult whoever he wants when it comes to handling the site which includes vote mods and regular members with good conduct and experience on the site. The President doesnt automatically make someone qualified to have Airmax turn to them for advice, im willing to bet that Airmax didnt ask for Mikal's opinion on certain matters when Mikal was president briefly.

It's easy to miss a lot of the benefits the presidency offers, since so much of it is indirect, but the benefits are there, and there are a lot of them.

You only explicitly named two in this entire post: Members gaining experience, and being a liason to Airmax, both of which have underlying truths to them that undermines the presidents role in influencing both to the degree you claim it does.
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lannan13
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6/23/2016 7:11:18 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I swear, this is the 4th or 5th thread on this I've seen now.
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donald.keller
Posts: 3,709
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6/24/2016 3:51:35 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 4:27:47 PM, fire_wings wrote:
At 6/21/2016 7:11:40 PM, donald.keller wrote:

I never knew the presidency helped this much.

A lot of people don't realize it.
-- Don't forget to submit your unvoted debates to the Voter's Union --

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#SaveThePresidency
#SaveTheSite

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Emmarie
Posts: 1,907
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6/24/2016 4:42:21 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/23/2016 7:00:08 PM, imabench wrote:


The forums actually do that far better than the presidency ever has and ever will. Simply browsing threads is the easiest way for new members to bump into and converse with experienced members.
+1
dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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6/25/2016 1:43:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/21/2016 7:11:40 PM, donald.keller wrote:
In response to Imabench's thread:

The Presidency has done a lot for the site that I feel many members don't consider, newer members especially. It's easy to not see at times, but there is a lot the Presidency does, directly and indirectly, that benefits the community.

Let's start with experience. The Presidency has given a lot of members a chance to gain experience in running programs, events, and co-hosting projects. Members like me, Tej, and, to my knowledge, Hayd, gained experience running tournaments and programs from the Presidency. Experience that has/will lead to well-ran programs that contribute a lot to the site. The Presidency and it's many programs have presented vast opportunities for members to learn and gain experience that they otherwise wouldn't have received. Especially tournaments, with many different hosts.

The Presidency has also presented new members many opportunities to meet established members. One of the harder parts to getting engaged on the site as a new member is getting involved with experienced members. The programs have helped new members breach the gap between them and older members they can learn from. The mentorship programs and the Beginners Tournament has helped a lot of new members meet, learn from, and get associated with the site's members.

How many of the people reading this were new members with no connections to the site at some point? All of them. And how many of those members got more engaged because they meet older members through the mentorship programs, or a trainer from the Beginner's Tournament? Or through some presidential program? The Presidency, being so connected to new member programs, has served as a great way to get new members engaged.

How many of those people became better debaters from the Beginner's Tournament? Fire_wings, Skepticalone, SolonKR, and many others tested their skills in the Beginner's Tournament.

The Presidency has also, for a long time, helped Airmax... 1harder may believe it's a new idea never before seen in the presidency... But being a liaison is, and since Airmax's presidency, always has been, a job of the President. Whenever there is a large concern among members, Airmax has usually received helped from the Presidency in working with the members to solve the problem.

Every time an issue comes up, members take for granted how involved the Presidency is in helping Airmax solve the issue. Even outside of site problems, Airmax has always been able to rely on the Presidency to help him with anything.

There's plenty the Presidency offers members... More importantly, there is plenty more it CAN offer. It's easy to miss a lot of the benefits the presidency offers, since so much of it is indirect, but the benefits are there, and there are a lot of them. I'd welcome members who have been positively impacted by the Presidency to join me in proving the benefits of the Presidency are real.

All interesting points.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax