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******OFFICIAL ANNOUNCEMENT****** nac

YYW
Posts: 36,357
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6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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6/26/2016 2:00:30 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 1:59:12 AM, rross wrote:
What's official about this announcement?

You are a very strange person.
Tsar of DDO
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 2:08:04 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:00:30 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:59:12 AM, rross wrote:
What's official about this announcement?

You are a very strange person.

There's nothing official about it, right? It would have been more accurate to say

****PERSONAL ANNOUNCEMENT****

Or even

Personal announcement

Or

Personal announcement about vote moderation.
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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6/26/2016 2:10:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:08:04 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:00:30 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:59:12 AM, rross wrote:
What's official about this announcement?

You are a very strange person.

There's nothing official about it, right? It would have been more accurate to say

****PERSONAL ANNOUNCEMENT****

Or even

Personal announcement

Or

Personal announcement about vote moderation.

Do you have friends who are not imaginary?
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,357
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6/26/2016 2:11:00 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

Excellent.

As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.

Indeed. Join the hangout, btw.
Tsar of DDO
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 2:14:24 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.

Auditing shouldn't be personal though. You wouldn't want some random person to audit you and gather opinions from your employees etc. just bc they had some random issue with you.
TBR
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6/26/2016 2:17:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:11:00 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

Excellent.

You know.... One of the problems I had getting buy-in on my metricing system was, as I found out, the case workers, police, and others didn't want a part of the nature of the system itsself. That part was, the dataset compiled was very useful to determine effectiveness of those people. They were totally cool with it tracking there charges (people), but were not happy with it tracking THEM.

Yea, I know. I am a naive guy, but it hit me like a brick one day. This is what they are worried about.


As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.

Indeed. Join the hangout, btw.

I would love to. I just might. Odd days for me right now, so... Its making me generally depressed, and not great company.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 2:20:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:17:09 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:11:00 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

Excellent.

You know.... One of the problems I had getting buy-in on my metricing system was, as I found out, the case workers, police, and others didn't want a part of the nature of the system itsself. That part was, the dataset compiled was very useful to determine effectiveness of those people. They were totally cool with it tracking there charges (people), but were not happy with it tracking THEM.

Yea, I know. I am a naive guy, but it hit me like a brick one day. This is what they are worried about.

people hate being monitored. That's why vote moderation is a disaster for motivating people to vote.
rross
Posts: 2,772
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6/26/2016 2:28:49 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:22:39 AM, Cermank wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:59:12 AM, rross wrote:

Hey I missed ya

Yay Cermank!! I was thinking about you when I saw the president election. You've always been my top pick. I might vote for you anyway.
TBR
Posts: 9,991
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6/26/2016 2:32:42 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:20:53 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:17:09 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:11:00 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

Excellent.

You know.... One of the problems I had getting buy-in on my metricing system was, as I found out, the case workers, police, and others didn't want a part of the nature of the system itsself. That part was, the dataset compiled was very useful to determine effectiveness of those people. They were totally cool with it tracking there charges (people), but were not happy with it tracking THEM.

Yea, I know. I am a naive guy, but it hit me like a brick one day. This is what they are worried about.

people hate being monitored. That's why vote moderation is a disaster for motivating people to vote.

That is a good point.
TBR
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6/26/2016 2:39:10 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:14:24 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.

Auditing shouldn't be personal though. You wouldn't want some random person to audit you and gather opinions from your employees etc. just bc they had some random issue with you.

You misunderstand. I agree that just anyone "auditing" is worthless. That is more like b1tching. I think, and YYW can lay it out better (he should) is trying to do is compile all the data. Who ultimately uses this data is a good question. How it is used is a question.

Yea YYW is an arrogant a$$ (I mean that is the best possible way YYW), but he is not going to be bereft of the overall process of evaluation. It is also GOOD to have a single source to STOP the negative or positive gut feelings of people who randomly evaluate voting moderation.

Again, very generally, without process and data, all people do is guess based of feelings.
rross
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6/26/2016 2:47:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 2:39:10 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:14:24 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 2:07:53 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

I think, generally speaking, auditing the moderators is a great idea.

As a guy who has spent most of his life under audits from various organizations (business related) I have come past being "at peace" to liking the idea very much. It is a very high point for me that I have NEVER failed an audit. That is not to say I have never been dinged. Auditors have found flaws in my systems, and I am happy when they did. If you work in the proper environment, there is no one who is going to kick your a$$ when a probem is found, only when you don't do anything to fix the problem.

Auditing shouldn't be personal though. You wouldn't want some random person to audit you and gather opinions from your employees etc. just bc they had some random issue with you.

You misunderstand. I agree that just anyone "auditing" is worthless. That is more like b1tching. I think, and YYW can lay it out better (he should) is trying to do is compile all the data. Who ultimately uses this data is a good question. How it is used is a question.

Yea YYW is an arrogant a$$ (I mean that is the best possible way YYW), but he is not going to be bereft of the overall process of evaluation. It is also GOOD to have a single source to STOP the negative or positive gut feelings of people who randomly evaluate voting moderation.

Again, very generally, without process and data, all people do is guess based of feelings.

I see what you mean, but YYW talked about "whiteflame's incompetence" in the op which sounds as if he's made up his mind already, which means he's not objective. Also, why should it be secretly by PM? It would be much better for it to be in public or at least in pm that the moderators can see and respond to.
TBR
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6/26/2016 3:00:09 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I see what you mean, but YYW talked about "whiteflame's incompetence" in the op which sounds as if he's made up his mind already, which means he's not objective.

I don't disagree entirely. Yea, YYW has some bias, I am sure HE would admit as much. I would also say he knows enough, and knows how to set as much bias aside as possible when looking at the votes. He is not going to use one poor report to rest his case. He, I have to assume, is willing to call out where the moderation was just fine.

Also, why should it be secretly by PM? It would be much better for it to be in public or at least in pm that the moderators can see and respond to.
I agree with this too. It was one of my first reactions to this post. I dislike all the PMing on this crap. But, just for the sake of gathering the data, I don't think this is a bad way of going about it. The thread can get derailed very quickly, and just collecting what vote decisions are questionable is just the start. At some point, the entire think, I assume, will be very public.

I will let YYW speak for himself. He must have a notion of how he is going about this.
YYW
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6/26/2016 3:02:03 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:00:09 AM, TBR wrote:
I see what you mean, but YYW talked about "whiteflame's incompetence" in the op which sounds as if he's made up his mind already, which means he's not objective.

I don't disagree entirely. Yea, YYW has some bias, I am sure HE would admit as much. I would also say he knows enough, and knows how to set as much bias aside as possible when looking at the votes. He is not going to use one poor report to rest his case. He, I have to assume, is willing to call out where the moderation was just fine.

Also, why should it be secretly by PM? It would be much better for it to be in public or at least in pm that the moderators can see and respond to.
I agree with this too. It was one of my first reactions to this post. I dislike all the PMing on this crap. But, just for the sake of gathering the data, I don't think this is a bad way of going about it. The thread can get derailed very quickly, and just collecting what vote decisions are questionable is just the start. At some point, the entire think, I assume, will be very public.

I will let YYW speak for himself. He must have a notion of how he is going about this.

I am not biased, and rross is not a member whose opinion I really consider even worth acknowledging. But, to the extent that her position on vote moderation is consistent with mine, she is correct.
Tsar of DDO
rross
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6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.
TBR
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6/26/2016 3:43:40 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:02:03 AM, YYW wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:00:09 AM, TBR wrote:
I see what you mean, but YYW talked about "whiteflame's incompetence" in the op which sounds as if he's made up his mind already, which means he's not objective.

I don't disagree entirely. Yea, YYW has some bias, I am sure HE would admit as much. I would also say he knows enough, and knows how to set as much bias aside as possible when looking at the votes. He is not going to use one poor report to rest his case. He, I have to assume, is willing to call out where the moderation was just fine.

Also, why should it be secretly by PM? It would be much better for it to be in public or at least in pm that the moderators can see and respond to.
I agree with this too. It was one of my first reactions to this post. I dislike all the PMing on this crap. But, just for the sake of gathering the data, I don't think this is a bad way of going about it. The thread can get derailed very quickly, and just collecting what vote decisions are questionable is just the start. At some point, the entire think, I assume, will be very public.

I will let YYW speak for himself. He must have a notion of how he is going about this.

I am not biased, and rross is not a member whose opinion I really consider even worth acknowledging. But, to the extent that her position on vote moderation is consistent with mine, she is correct.

This is my first interactions with rross. Seems somewhere in my memory, but this thread and another tonight are the only ones coming to mind.
PetersSmith
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6/26/2016 3:44:37 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 1:44:40 AM, YYW wrote:
Certain members have contacted me regarding instances of Whiteflame's incompetence regarding vote moderation. Please PM me these, so that there is a record and for other purposes.

Regretfully, there is little I can do regarding Whiteflame's incompetence on his opposition to Brexit, for example, and other aspects. The only thing I can address are voting errors. However, feel free to send me PMs on other areas outside of vote moderation. They are useful for keeping a record of things.

Peace and Love,

YYW

When you feel you're ready, you should put Whiteflame's position to a vote on whether he should resign or not, and then if the majority says he should resign I'm sure airmax will be willing to listen if you send the petition to him.
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Guide to the Polls Section: http://www.debate.org...
TBR
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6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.
rross
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6/26/2016 3:47:26 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.

Gathering data is part of the auditing process, isn't it?
TBR
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6/26/2016 3:48:41 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:47:26 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.

Gathering data is part of the auditing process, isn't it?

Sure. Do you think its possible to be bias in gathering the data?
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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6/26/2016 3:53:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Nobody has a problem specifically with whiteflame's interpretation of the modding policies. General disagreements about vote moderation are not specific problems with whiteflame's moderation. If anyone has a problem, they should post here rather than give off the impression that "people we don't know are sending PMs to YYW." I'm reasonably confident nobody (or very few) are doing this. If you are, post here and let's see how people there actually are.
rross
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6/26/2016 3:55:29 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:48:41 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:47:26 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.

Gathering data is part of the auditing process, isn't it?

Sure. Do you think its possible to be bias in gathering the data?

Of course, yes. Even apart from YYW's own actions and decisions, this advertisement of the project with its obvious personal bias in the OP will influence how people get involved and what kind of messages they send.
TBR
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6/26/2016 3:58:29 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:55:29 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:48:41 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:47:26 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.

Gathering data is part of the auditing process, isn't it?

Sure. Do you think its possible to be bias in gathering the data?

Of course, yes. Even apart from YYW's own actions and decisions, this advertisement of the project with its obvious personal bias in the OP will influence how people get involved and what kind of messages they send.

The nature of the project invites cranks and complainers. What of it? It would seem you have an issue with YYW past the project itself, and are showing your own brand of bias.
rross
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6/26/2016 4:02:28 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:58:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:55:29 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:48:41 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:47:26 AM, rross wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:45:29 AM, TBR wrote:
At 6/26/2016 3:20:57 AM, rross wrote:
Although kind of obviously, someone who dismisses people's opinions based on his own personal issues is not really the best person to be an objective auditor.

Why are you assuming HE will be the only one? At this point, it seems like an effort to gather the data.

Gathering data is part of the auditing process, isn't it?

Sure. Do you think its possible to be bias in gathering the data?

Of course, yes. Even apart from YYW's own actions and decisions, this advertisement of the project with its obvious personal bias in the OP will influence how people get involved and what kind of messages they send.

The nature of the project invites cranks and complainers. What of it? It would seem you have an issue with YYW past the project itself, and are showing your own brand of bias.

I agree with F-16 that it's unlikely that many people will respond to this, so in that sense I don't really take it seriously. I was just answering your question about bias in data gathering kind of as a separate issue. Of course bias in data gathering is something to be careful about in general.
YYW
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6/26/2016 4:03:19 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 6/26/2016 3:53:28 AM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Nobody has a problem specifically with whiteflame's interpretation of the modding policies. General disagreements about vote moderation are not specific problems with whiteflame's moderation. If anyone has a problem, they should post here rather than give off the impression that "people we don't know are sending PMs to YYW." I'm reasonably confident nobody (or very few) are doing this. If you are, post here and let's see how people there actually are.

lol
Tsar of DDO