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**Harder: I'm Endorsing Imabench**

1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 8:45:45 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Read both posts before responding.

Note: poll included NOTA, so you might as well add that to Bench's count. Also, numbers are rounded up.

"In a race with the 4 main candidates.
DK: 33%
Chris: 17%
Imabench: 28%
NOTA: 10%
Undecided: 16%
+/-5%

Chris Drops
DK: 31%
Imabench: 43%
Undecided: 16%

+/-5%

DK Drops
Chris: 47%
Imabench: 26%
Undecided: 16%
NOTA: 9%

+/-5%"

(source: Lannan13 private poll)

I just got off from a conversation with DK. I laid out the realities of the race, and even brought polls straight from the source. My point of view is that one of us has to drop out.

But DK will not drop out. He refuses to do so despite anything I brought to the table.

He wants me to stay in. If I stay in, he has a shot at winning. If I drop out, he loses. If he drops out, I probably win. I'm not making this up - I have the numbers above.

When bringing peace talks up, he lied to me. He said that, if he drops out, Bench's vote will grow because his camp hates me. And if I drop out, he will win. He said he saw Lannan's private poll on the issue. So I asked Lannan to give me numbers - and he gave me those numbers, and given the results I started a three-way PM. That's why I posted the numbers above.

You know what DK did? He said he would drop out to save the Presidency, but he will win. That is simply not true. I pressured him, and he got more snide and more condescending. I was disappointed - after Wylted said publicly he should drop out, and Lannan told me he should as well, I was disappointed this wasn't a smooth day.

Now I'm dropping out. Here's the referendum - DK vs. Bench. If he won't drop out, I will. A three-way is inconclusive in regards to what we actually want. There's no strategic voting here (which happened in three-way polls), so nothing is up for interpretation.

I want what is best for the site

In my opinion, conventions is more useful than DK. DK is a figurehead - the type of person abolitionists talk about when they say the President doesn't add anything regular members can't do. The conversation I just had with him proved that further to me.

I won't win a three-way. This is very clear to me. I would win head-on with Bench - I am confident of that. Regardless of how this thread goes, I think DK will lose to Bench. All of the people I siphoned from abolition will now fall back. But I'm not doing this to ensure Bench wins - I'm doing this to ensure what is best for the site happens.

DK and TUF have shown no respect to me from the beginning. They let their camp take shots at me, and I grew annoyed. And let me be clear - I wasn't planning on a Bench endorsement when I first sent the peace deal. It was the 30+ hours of ignoring me and then adding insult to injury in the PM that pushed me over the edge. The real issues I have lie in their persistent hostile behavior.

I was in the Hangout a few days ago. We were discussing who it was worse to get into a flame war with - Bench or YYW. TUF said Bench was worse, and I said YYW was. So TUF said "I don't think you've ever been in a flame war with Bench". I corrected him, noting the time he got banned after a flame war with me. So he said "And now you're his b!tch."

Such diplomacy from the "mature" ticket. It's a fair question to ask why I'm bringing this up. I frankly don't care about my reputation. I want to show everyone what the characters of the potential President and Vice President are like. When people are under pressure, they change. DK and TUF became extremely vitriolic (whereas I don't change much, but am embittered to begin with) this election. Incidents with them, when nonexistent before, became the norm when crossing paths. Are they bad people? I don't know, but they very much changed from their respective usual demeanors. It's not always the sheer hostility of actions, but the high percentage of hostility our interactions had.

Because of his dislike towards me in this election, TUF apparently doesn't want to work with me on regular site things - things we might have been able to kick back and relax on previously. Talks in the DDOCL - where we are teammates - fell apart weeks ago. I don't think they will recover.

And now I have my conversation with DK today - who apparently had no interest but to win himself. The only way he does that is by using me to siphon Bench's votes - but I *refuse* to be used by someone who has shown me not even a shred of diplomatic ability. Never in my life have I had someone walk out on a conversation when presented with facts that *called them out on a lie* - which is what he did today. He chose himself over the site.

So these are your "mature" choices, folks. Being a$sholes at every turn and lying for their own gain. I despise liars. I especially despise liars who lie to manipulate others so they can win a title on some god forsaken small website. That, at the end of the day, doesn't fvcking matter. This has been a nasty ordeal, and I want to put it behind me.

On the other hand, abolitionists have been extremely well-behaved. They welcomed me into their circle, and they were frankly a refuge for me when things got out of hand this election.

Do you know what was posted today? A member might have killed themselves. A member I genuinely liked. When I read the post, I cried. I'm still upset about it, and I will be for a while. I don't give a fvck about this Presidency. At the end of the day, I want to see what is best for the people here. And I'd be damned if some useless megalomaniac became President for 6 months.

It's a useless. fvcking. title. Someone might be dead, and I have been forced to deal with an arrogant prick who doesn't see the writing on the wall in terms of his actual support. Really, I'm fuming that I even have to write this. I see the writing on the wall.

As, for me, I'm going to run programs. I'm still going to do outreach, I'm still going to try to help new members come into the site. And now, I think we really need people who are available to help anyone at any time - from people with regular issues to people who are suicidal, and I want to organize a group for that. I have my sight set for the future, and I'm ready to abolish the Presidency. Will I support a return for it? I don't know. This cycle has hurt me a lot, but I will come stronger from it.

I'm confident I'm still the best choice for the site. But the second best is abolition. Maybe then, we can get our priorities in check. If I were elected (miraculously) despite this thread, I would take the position, but I would run the programs regardless of what happens. It doesn't matter to me anymore. This is bigger than the Presidency.

DK and TUF have done good for the site, but I can't support them. In terms of my view of them, today was not the straw that broke the camel's back, it was adding a few more to the camel on the ground, instead of trying to mend the issue.

TBR told me something a few days ago. He gave me a lecture in the Hangout on my priorities. He said I already am a positive to the site, and I don't *need* the Presidency to do anything. And you know what? He's right. I don't need a title to do what is right, and I'm doing what is right now, and I will continue to do what is right in the future.

I love you, DDO, for all you have done for me. Make the better choice tomorrow. Let us empower ourselves and through us the site, instead of bowing to a coronation. I have no regrets over my run. I have fought for my beliefs, and I will continue to do so. But for everyone to make a reasonable decision, know that there was hostility. A lot of it. I didn't plan on doing this, but my conversation with DK drove me to make this.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 8:45:53 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I don't want to end this run, however, without a proper thank you.

Thank you to SolonKR and Hayd, for sticking with me, and trying to cool me down when I needed it. I am grateful for your work, and it's unfortunate that it must come down to this. But it must be done - for real democracy and for what is right and wrong.

Thank you to Bsh1, Endark, and ESocial (and others, but I don't feel as comfortable naming them - but you know who you are) for giving me initial prodding to run.

Thank you to Airmax. Your thumbs up on my campaign outline before I announced gave me a lot of hope for what I could do.

Thank you to anyone who gave me the time of day in regards to being a potential VP.

Thank you to those early supporters, who gave me the reason to fight on despite things looking bleak early.

Thank you to Blade-of-Truth for giving me advice early on.

Thank you to Thett3, Skepsikyma, Bossyburrito, and SeventhProfessor for being a fallback at times when I wanted to rage at the election. And thank you for giving me reason to hope that the Presidency and abolitionists could work together. I sincerely believe unity was possible, but at least now we can stop thinking about unifying by making the position to not exist.

Thank you to Imabench for being a very courteous opposition figure during my run.

Thank you to TBR for helping me in that one Hangout a week ago.

And thank you to anyone who voted for me in polls, or threw your support behind me in the forums or PMs. I believe you should vote Bench, but it is your free call - and I respect your reasons for supporting either after me. Without you, I would not have had the justification for airing my views.

Now, we have reached the point of no return, and I'm ready to move forward. In a weird way, I feel free now. Free from the bullsh!t - I want to see what I can do without the limits of this whole situation.

Let's move forward together.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 8:53:59 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
"Living is easy with eyes closed
Misunderstanding all you see
It's getting hard to be someone but it all works out
It doesn't matter much to me"

-John Lennon, "Strawberry Fields Forever"
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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tejretics
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7/7/2016 8:57:52 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
I'm sorry to hear that you're dropping out.

But I think the level of torment the Presidency has caused certain people means it is worth abolishing it. I only hoped that good people -- like you -- wouldn't go through the stress it would bring.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
tejretics
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7/7/2016 8:59:25 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
"People are sick and tired of establishment politics. They want real change." -Bernie Sanders
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:02:18 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 8:59:25 AM, tejretics wrote:
"People are sick and tired of establishment politics. They want real change." -Bernie Sanders

This is true. One thing I was always so annoyed was how he was able to control the narrative. It made people think I couldn't win. I talked with Lannan on this - people seemed to like my platform the most, but I think strategic voting was a problem for me the entire way.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:09:57 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 8:57:52 AM, tejretics wrote:
I only hoped that good people -- like you -- wouldn't go through the stress it would bring.

Let me be clear, though. I'm not really a good person. I was the last person I wanted to be running this platform. I wanted someone else to do it, but nobody announced, and nobody I wanted to run seemed even interested in the Presidency as an issue when I tried to go about the topic privately.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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tejretics
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7/7/2016 9:12:06 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:09:57 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm not really a good person.

Quite simply, I disagree.
"Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe." - Frederick Douglass
1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:13:22 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:12:06 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/7/2016 9:09:57 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
I'm not really a good person.

Quite simply, I disagree.

Meh.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:16:52 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
The people I'm most sorry to are Solon and Hayd. They deserve better.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:40:49 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:28:33 AM, Wylted wrote:
I can't believe DK would rather abolition win then drop out

It is what it is.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 10:01:07 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
As a note, Lannan made an error in omitting NOTA's 9% in the second ("Chris drops") poll.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Wylted
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7/7/2016 10:03:42 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 10:01:07 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
As a note, Lannan made an error in omitting NOTA's 9% in the second ("Chris drops") poll.

Did he give you names to go along with any of these?
1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 10:04:52 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 10:03:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/7/2016 10:01:07 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
As a note, Lannan made an error in omitting NOTA's 9% in the second ("Chris drops") poll.

Did he give you names to go along with any of these?

I believe he ran it on an anonymous platform.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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ShabShoral
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7/7/2016 10:12:36 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
Godspeed.

DK will not win.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 10:48:15 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
It doesn't look like I'll be sleeping tonight (well, it's nearly 7 AM now), but I won't be available from 1-4 PM (eastern time). So, this is fun.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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thett3
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7/7/2016 11:44:13 AM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 8:57:52 AM, tejretics wrote:
I'm sorry to hear that you're dropping out.

But I think the level of torment the Presidency has caused certain people means it is worth abolishing it. I only hoped that good people -- like you -- wouldn't go through the stress it would bring.

Yes exactly this, and if someone has never been heavily involved in a campaign they have no idea of the nastiness that lies just beneath the surface
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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
Skepsikyma
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7/7/2016 12:21:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 8:45:53 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:

Thank you to Imabench for being a very courteous opposition figure during my run.
That's the most damning indictment of DK in the entire thread, lol.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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lannan13
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7/7/2016 2:16:41 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 10:04:52 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/7/2016 10:03:42 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/7/2016 10:01:07 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
As a note, Lannan made an error in omitting NOTA's 9% in the second ("Chris drops") poll.

Did he give you names to go along with any of these?

I believe he ran it on an anonymous platform.

Indeed it was.
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TBR
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7/7/2016 3:36:10 PM
Posted: 5 months ago

DK Drops
Chris: 47%
Imabench: 26%
Undecided: 16%
NOTA: 9%

+/-5%"

(source: Lannan13 private poll)

I just got off from a conversation with DK. I laid out the realities of the race, and even brought polls straight from the source. My point of view is that one of us has to drop out.

But DK will not drop out. He refuses to do so despite anything I brought to the table.

He wants me to stay in. If I stay in, he has a shot at winning. If I drop out, he loses. If he drops out, I probably win. I'm not making this up - I have the numbers above.

When bringing peace talks up, he lied to me. He said that, if he drops out, Bench's vote will grow because his camp hates me. And if I drop out, he will win. He said he saw Lannan's private poll on the issue. So I asked Lannan to give me numbers - and he gave me those numbers, and given the results I started a three-way PM. That's why I posted the numbers above.

You know what DK did? He said he would drop out to save the Presidency, but he will win. That is simply not true. I pressured him, and he got more snide and more condescending. I was disappointed - after Wylted said publicly he should drop out, and Lannan told me he should as well, I was disappointed this wasn't a smooth day.

Now I'm dropping out. Here's the referendum - DK vs. Bench. If he won't drop out, I will. A three-way is inconclusive in regards to what we actually want. There's no strategic voting here (which happened in three-way polls), so nothing is up for interpretation.

I want what is best for the site

In my opinion, conventions is more useful than DK. DK is a figurehead - the type of person abolitionists talk about when they say the President doesn't add anything regular members can't do. The conversation I just had with him proved that further to me.

I won't win a three-way. This is very clear to me. I would win head-on with Bench - I am confident of that. Regardless of how this thread goes, I think DK will lose to Bench. All of the people I siphoned from abolition will now fall back. But I'm not doing this to ensure Bench wins - I'm doing this to ensure what is best for the site happens.

DK and TUF have shown no respect to me from the beginning. They let their camp take shots at me, and I grew annoyed. And let me be clear - I wasn't planning on a Bench endorsement when I first sent the peace deal. It was the 30+ hours of ignoring me and then adding insult to injury in the PM that pushed me over the edge. The real issues I have lie in their persistent hostile behavior.

I was in the Hangout a few days ago. We were discussing who it was worse to get into a flame war with - Bench or YYW. TUF said Bench was worse, and I said YYW was. So TUF said "I don't think you've ever been in a flame war with Bench". I corrected him, noting the time he got banned after a flame war with me. So he said "And now you're his b!tch."

Such diplomacy from the "mature" ticket. It's a fair question to ask why I'm bringing this up. I frankly don't care about my reputation. I want to show everyone what the characters of the potential President and Vice President are like. When people are under pressure, they change. DK and TUF became extremely vitriolic (whereas I don't change much, but am embittered to begin with) this election. Incidents with them, when nonexistent before, became the norm when crossing paths. Are they bad people? I don't know, but they very much changed from their respective usual demeanors. It's not always the sheer hostility of actions, but the high percentage of hostility our interactions had.

Because of his dislike towards me in this election, TUF apparently doesn't want to work with me on regular site things - things we might have been able to kick back and relax on previously. Talks in the DDOCL - where we are teammates - fell apart weeks ago. I don't think they will recover.

And now I have my conversation with DK today - who apparently had no interest but to win himself. The only way he does that is by using me to siphon Bench's votes - but I *refuse* to be used by someone who has shown me not even a shred of diplomatic ability. Never in my life have I had someone walk out on a conversation when presented with facts that *called them out on a lie* - which is what he did today. He chose himself over the site.

So these are your "mature" choices, folks. Being a$sholes at every turn and lying for their own gain. I despise liars. I especially despise liars who lie to manipulate others so they can win a title on some god forsaken small website. That, at the end of the day, doesn't fvcking matter. This has been a nasty ordeal, and I want to put it behind me.

On the other hand, abolitionists have been extremely well-behaved. They welcomed me into their circle, and they were frankly a refuge for me when things got out of hand this election.

Do you know what was posted today? A member might have killed themselves. A member I genuinely liked. When I read the post, I cried. I'm still upset about it, and I will be for a while. I don't give a fvck about this Presidency. At the end of the day, I want to see what is best for the people here. And I'd be damned if some useless megalomaniac became President for 6 months.

It's a useless. fvcking. title. Someone might be dead, and I have been forced to deal with an arrogant prick who doesn't see the writing on the wall in terms of his actual support. Really, I'm fuming that I even have to write this. I see the writing on the wall.

As, for me, I'm going to run programs. I'm still going to do outreach, I'm still going to try to help new members come into the site. And now, I think we really need people who are available to help anyone at any time - from people with regular issues to people who are suicidal, and I want to organize a group for that. I have my sight set for the future, and I'm ready to abolish the Presidency. Will I support a return for it? I don't know. This cycle has hurt me a lot, but I will come stronger from it.

I'm confident I'm still the best choice for the site. But the second best is abolition. Maybe then, we can get our priorities in check. If I were elected (miraculously) despite this thread, I would take the position, but I would run the programs regardless of what happens. It doesn't matter to me anymore. This is bigger than the Presidency.

DK and TUF have done good for the site, but I can't support them. In terms of my view of them, today was not the straw that broke the camel's back, it was adding a few more to the camel on the ground, instead of trying to mend the issue.

TBR told me something a few days ago. He gave me a lecture in the Hangout on my priorities. He said I already am a positive to the site, and I don't *need* the Presidency to do anything. And you know what? He's right. I don't need a title to do what is right, and I'm doing what is right now, and I will continue to do what is right in the future.

I love you, DDO, for all you have done for me. Make the better choice tomorrow. Let us empower ourselves and through us the site, instead of bowing to a coronation. I have no regrets over my run. I have fought for my beliefs, and I will continue to do so. But for everyone to make a reasonable decision, know that there was hostility. A lot of it. I didn't plan on doing this, but my conversation with DK drove me to make this.

Good post. Good job.

Now lets sit back and watch Bench win together.
1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 3:36:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 3:36:10 PM, TBR wrote:
Now lets sit back and watch Bench win together.

Yes.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 4:50:05 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I was going through old PMs today. I just wanted to look at them. What interested me most was something I said to Imabench.

I said that if DK/TUF's civility goes to sh!t, and they're still ahead of me, I would not be able to endorse them in good conscience. I also said that - to me - Presidency vs abolition isn't a black and white matter.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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Sapphique
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7/7/2016 5:30:57 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
It'd be really funny if we voted you in anyways :3 But if that's not a possibility then I'm going with Imabench too. Thanks for all you've done and will continue to do for the site.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 7:20:12 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 5:30:57 PM, Sapphique wrote:
It'd be really funny if we voted you in anyways :3 But if that's not a possibility then I'm going with Imabench too. Thanks for all you've done and will continue to do for the site.

I would have found that pretty funny as well.
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bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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7/7/2016 9:05:53 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I will be voting DK. Sorry.
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1harderthanyouthink
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7/7/2016 9:37:49 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:05:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I will be voting DK. Sorry.

I can't vote for a liar and megalomaniac. DK was extremely hostile throughout this entire process, and I do not think he could even function as a President now.
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Emmarie
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7/7/2016 11:25:30 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 8:45:45 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:



Now I'm dropping out. Here's the referendum - DK vs. Bench. If he won't drop out, I will. A three-way is inconclusive in regards to what we actually want. There's no strategic voting here (which happened in three-way polls), so nothing is up for interpretation.

Sure you won't reconsider and make a thread endorsing yourself, Hayd and Solon. Yall have the most community support and i'd vote for you if you did.
ShabShoral
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7/7/2016 11:36:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/7/2016 9:37:49 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/7/2016 9:05:53 PM, bsh1 wrote:
I will be voting DK. Sorry.

I can't vote for a liar and megalomaniac. DK was extremely hostile throughout this entire process, and I do not think he could even function as a President now.

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