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**Major announcement on Abolition**

Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I just want you to know that I am currently in negotiations with Airmax to have an actual straght up referandum type vote on abolition or not.

If you want abolition, and Airmax agrees you will be able to actually vote for it, if I am elected. You know instead of voting for somebody who is just using that demographic to get elected.
Roukezian
Posts: 1,711
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7/8/2016 7:27:06 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM, Wylted wrote:

I'm pretty sure you'd win on abolition as DDO Elections are fun much like a stampede except less cowboys.
Sapphique
Posts: 4,119
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7/8/2016 7:30:20 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM, Wylted wrote:
I just want you to know that I am currently in negotiations with Airmax to have an actual straght up referandum type vote on abolition or not.

If you want abolition, and Airmax agrees you will be able to actually vote for it, if I am elected. You know instead of voting for somebody who is just using that demographic to get elected.

Why do you need to be elected for this to happen? Couldn't we hold such a referendum regardless of who wins this election?
DDO Beginners' Mafia Moderator -- PM me if you'd like to learn how to play mafia!

"We wondered what happiness would look like if we could give it a physical form...the shape of happiness might resemble glass...even though you don't usually notice it, it's still definitely there. You merely have to change your point of view slightly, and then that glass will sparkle when it reflects the light. I doubt that anything else could argue its own existence more eloquently." ~Lelouch
Wylted
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7/8/2016 7:33:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:30:20 PM, Sapphique wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM, Wylted wrote:
I just want you to know that I am currently in negotiations with Airmax to have an actual straght up referandum type vote on abolition or not.

If you want abolition, and Airmax agrees you will be able to actually vote for it, if I am elected. You know instead of voting for somebody who is just using that demographic to get elected.

Why do you need to be elected for this to happen? Couldn't we hold such a referendum regardless of who wins this election?

Do you want the thing vote spammed like Bench's system calls gor or would you like to givevus time as a community to arrange a fair vote?
Subutai
Posts: 3,262
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7/8/2016 7:40:42 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM, Wylted wrote:
I just want you to know that I am currently in negotiations with Airmax to have an actual straght up referandum type vote on abolition or not.

If you want abolition, and Airmax agrees you will be able to actually vote for it, if I am elected. You know instead of voting for somebody who is just using that demographic to get elected.

Who've changed your motivations multiple times over the course of less than a day. I don't trust that you would, upon nomination, or even have the authority, to authorize such a referendum.
I'm becoming less defined as days go by, fading away, and well you might say, I'm losing focus, kinda drifting into the abstract in terms of how I see myself.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2016 7:51:39 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:40:42 PM, Subutai wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:23:21 PM, Wylted wrote:
I just want you to know that I am currently in negotiations with Airmax to have an actual straght up referandum type vote on abolition or not.

If you want abolition, and Airmax agrees you will be able to actually vote for it, if I am elected. You know instead of voting for somebody who is just using that demographic to get elected.

Who've changed your motivations multiple times over the course of less than a day. I don't trust that you would, upon nomination, or even have the authority, to authorize such a referendum.

I am talking to Airmax now about it, and given that he was allowing Imabench to have a system that allowed unlimited referendums I don't think he would disagree to just one tiny referendum.
Wylted
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7/8/2016 7:52:53 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

You have no ideal what the referendum will bring. Lots of Bench's supporters are acrually pro president.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,105
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7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 7:56:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

I don't expect you to agree.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,105
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7/8/2016 7:56:55 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:56:01 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

I don't expect you to agree.

Don't expect more than 3 people to agree.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/8/2016 7:57:22 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

You're an example of what is wrong with this site. You define people by their conclusions, not their reasoning. They don't vote for the candidate you like? They're disrespectful. They have a stance that is different from yours? They're teenagers and "kidults".

An actual respected debate site would favor reasoning over conclusions, it would value valid arguments even if they lead to contentious conclusions. But that is not this site, and you are not an example of it.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 7:57:47 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:52:53 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

You have no ideal what the referendum will bring. Lots of Bench's supporters are acrually pro president.

Why would they support bench if they are pro-presidency? The problem is that most of the people who currently post actively in the forums have - to put it mildly - chaotic personalities rather than orderly ones. That's a large part of the reason the quality of the site has gone down.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 7:59:04 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:56:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:56:01 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

I don't expect you to agree.

Don't expect more than 3 people to agree.

That's my point.
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2016 7:59:28 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Why would they support bench if they are pro-presidency? The problem is that most of the people who currently post actively in the forums have - to put it mildly - chaotic personalities rather than orderly ones. That's a large part of the reason the quality of the site has gone down.

Because DK would just be an empty seat.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,105
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7/8/2016 7:59:48 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:59:04 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:56:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:56:01 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

I don't expect you to agree.

Don't expect more than 3 people to agree.

That's my point.

Then leave the site if you only exist to be a d!ck to everyone.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 8:08:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:57:22 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
You're an example of what is wrong with this site. You define people by their conclusions, not their reasoning. They don't vote for the candidate you like? They're disrespectful. They have a stance that is different from yours? They're teenagers and "kidults".

Both of these are strawman arguments. A strawman argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

I didn't say people were disrespectful if they don't vote a specific candidate. I've noticed how the older, respectable members like whiteflame, and 16k are all piling their votes onto DK, yet there aren't enough votes. More of the chaotic type personas who think it's "fun" to kick stuff around and "genius" that Wylted turned the elections into a joke are the ones stirring up chaos. I lamented that these types are now the majority of active posters and intellectual discussion has gone down the drain.

An actual respected debate site would favor reasoning over conclusions, it would value valid arguments even if they lead to contentious conclusions. But that is not this site, and you are not an example of it.

That's what this site used to be. I've always posted reasoning for any of my arguments. You're the one illogically opposing vote moderation and defending abolition. When I pointed out to you why the analogy of simply mirroring my arguments by replacing "abolition" with "presidency" doesn't make sense, you decided not to engage my arguments any more. Nevertheless, I've made those arguments contrary to what you claim.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 8:08:31 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:59:28 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they support bench if they are pro-presidency? The problem is that most of the people who currently post actively in the forums have - to put it mildly - chaotic personalities rather than orderly ones. That's a large part of the reason the quality of the site has gone down.

Because DK would just be an empty seat.

How so?
Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/8/2016 8:09:56 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:08:31 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:59:28 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they support bench if they are pro-presidency? The problem is that most of the people who currently post actively in the forums have - to put it mildly - chaotic personalities rather than orderly ones. That's a large part of the reason the quality of the site has gone down.

Because DK would just be an empty seat.

How so?

Like Ore_El. He would just exist
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 8:12:40 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:09:56 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:08:31 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:59:28 PM, Wylted wrote:
Why would they support bench if they are pro-presidency? The problem is that most of the people who currently post actively in the forums have - to put it mildly - chaotic personalities rather than orderly ones. That's a large part of the reason the quality of the site has gone down.

Because DK would just be an empty seat.

How so?

Like Ore_El. He would just exist

His campaign seemed more similar to bladerunner's and bsh1's (in a good way) than Ore_Ele who simply stepped in for Mikal. I don't know on what basis you are concluding that his position will be like Ore_Ele's.
SeventhProfessor
Posts: 5,094
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7/8/2016 8:14:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Many respectable members (including the real DK) have come back JUST to vote for Wylted.
#UnbanTheMadman

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#BetOnThett

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TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/8/2016 8:15:35 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:08:14 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:57:22 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
You're an example of what is wrong with this site. You define people by their conclusions, not their reasoning. They don't vote for the candidate you like? They're disrespectful. They have a stance that is different from yours? They're teenagers and "kidults".

Both of these are strawman arguments. A strawman argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

This is what I'm talking about. You know I know what a straw man is. Yet you explain it to my like I'm a child. It's condescending.

I didn't say people were disrespectful if they don't vote a specific candidate. I've noticed how the older, respectable members like whiteflame, and 16k are all piling their votes onto DK, yet there aren't enough votes.

Wrong. You said "Every respectable member is voting for DK"

If "every respectable" member is voting for DK, then that doesn't leave any respectable members to vote for anyone else, ergo anyone else not voting for DK is not respectable.

This is called modus tollens. In propositional logic, modus tollens or "denying the consequent" is a valid argument form and a rule of inference. It is an application of the general truth that if a statement is true, then so is its contra-positive. https://en.wikipedia.org...

See, I can be snarky and condescending too.

More of the chaotic type personas who think it's "fun" to kick stuff around and "genius" that Wylted turned the elections into a joke are the ones stirring up chaos. I lamented that these types are now the majority of active posters and intellectual discussion has gone down the drain.

And I lament that you've become a closed-minded elitist. Alas.

An actual respected debate site would favor reasoning over conclusions, it would value valid arguments even if they lead to contentious conclusions. But that is not this site, and you are not an example of it.

That's what this site used to be. I've always posted reasoning for any of my arguments. You're the one illogically opposing vote moderation and defending abolition. When I pointed out to you why the analogy of simply mirroring my arguments by replacing "abolition" with "presidency" doesn't make sense, you decided not to engage my arguments any more. Nevertheless, I've made those arguments contrary to what you claim.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the relationship. Nevertheless, it is there for you to review and study until you do understand.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
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7/8/2016 8:24:43 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:15:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:08:14 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:57:22 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
You're an example of what is wrong with this site. You define people by their conclusions, not their reasoning. They don't vote for the candidate you like? They're disrespectful. They have a stance that is different from yours? They're teenagers and "kidults".

Both of these are strawman arguments. A strawman argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

This is what I'm talking about. You know I know what a straw man is. Yet you explain it to my like I'm a child. It's condescending.

Condescension wasn't my intention. I know you know what a strawman is. So, why are you making it? I expected better.

I didn't say people were disrespectful if they don't vote a specific candidate. I've noticed how the older, respectable members like whiteflame, and 16k are all piling their votes onto DK, yet there aren't enough votes.

Wrong. You said "Every respectable member is voting for DK"

If "every respectable" member is voting for DK, then that doesn't leave any respectable members to vote for anyone else, ergo anyone else not voting for DK is not respectable.

This is called modus tollens. In propositional logic, modus tollens or "denying the consequent" is a valid argument form and a rule of inference. It is an application of the general truth that if a statement is true, then so is its contra-positive. https://en.wikipedia.org...

See, I can be snarky and condescending too.

Hyperbole - Hyperbole may also be used for instances of such exaggerations for emphasis or effect. Hyperboles are often used in casual speech as intensifiers, such as saying "the bag weighed a ton". Hyperbole makes the point that the speaker found the bag to be extremely heavy, although it was nothing like a literal ton. Understanding hyperboles and their use in context can further one's ability to understand the messages being sent from the speaker. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

More of the chaotic type personas who think it's "fun" to kick stuff around and "genius" that Wylted turned the elections into a joke are the ones stirring up chaos. I lamented that these types are now the majority of active posters and intellectual discussion has gone down the drain.

And I lament that you've become a closed-minded elitist. Alas.

The site isn't stimulating me as it used to and no one really cares about it. People want to joke vote because they find it amusing. Perhaps, it may be elitist but you were there and joined roughly the same time as me. I doubt you could argue that the site is a shadow of what it once was.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the relationship. Nevertheless, it is there for you to review and study until you do understand.

You are the one who implied that I'm favoring conclusions over arguments. I pointed out that I actually have argued and you decided not to respond. If you want to refute those arguments, you are welcome to. Your arguments were illogical and had plenty of holes in them.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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7/8/2016 8:33:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:24:43 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:15:35 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:08:14 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:57:22 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
You're an example of what is wrong with this site. You define people by their conclusions, not their reasoning. They don't vote for the candidate you like? They're disrespectful. They have a stance that is different from yours? They're teenagers and "kidults".

Both of these are strawman arguments. A strawman argument creates the illusion of having completely refuted or defeated an opponent's proposition by covertly replacing it with a different proposition (i.e. "stand up a straw man") and then to refute or defeat that false argument ("knock down a straw man") instead of the original proposition. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

This is what I'm talking about. You know I know what a straw man is. Yet you explain it to my like I'm a child. It's condescending.

Condescension wasn't my intention. I know you know what a strawman is. So, why are you making it? I expected better.

I'm not. You are. Your hyperbole is essentially a strawman of your own design. It's not my fault you're not accurately representing your own views.

I didn't say people were disrespectful if they don't vote a specific candidate. I've noticed how the older, respectable members like whiteflame, and 16k are all piling their votes onto DK, yet there aren't enough votes.

Wrong. You said "Every respectable member is voting for DK"

If "every respectable" member is voting for DK, then that doesn't leave any respectable members to vote for anyone else, ergo anyone else not voting for DK is not respectable.

This is called modus tollens. In propositional logic, modus tollens or "denying the consequent" is a valid argument form and a rule of inference. It is an application of the general truth that if a statement is true, then so is its contra-positive. https://en.wikipedia.org...

See, I can be snarky and condescending too.

Hyperbole - Hyperbole may also be used for instances of such exaggerations for emphasis or effect. Hyperboles are often used in casual speech as intensifiers, such as saying "the bag weighed a ton". Hyperbole makes the point that the speaker found the bag to be extremely heavy, although it was nothing like a literal ton. Understanding hyperboles and their use in context can further one's ability to understand the messages being sent from the speaker. [https://en.wikipedia.org...]

Ok. So you strawmanned yourself.

More of the chaotic type personas who think it's "fun" to kick stuff around and "genius" that Wylted turned the elections into a joke are the ones stirring up chaos. I lamented that these types are now the majority of active posters and intellectual discussion has gone down the drain.

And I lament that you've become a closed-minded elitist. Alas.

The site isn't stimulating me as it used to and no one really cares about it. People want to joke vote because they find it amusing. Perhaps, it may be elitist but you were there and joined roughly the same time as me. I doubt you could argue that the site is a shadow of what it once was.

I agree it was a shadow of what it once was. The presidency, the mafia, the debates, the voting moderation, the members. They're all crappier, decayed versions of their previous selves.

It's not my fault you didn't understand the relationship. Nevertheless, it is there for you to review and study until you do understand.

You are the one who implied that I'm favoring conclusions over arguments.

No I didn't. I explicitly said you are judging people based upon the conclusions of their stances without consideration of their reasoning behind them. I didn't say anything about your use or lack of use of arguments.

I pointed out that I actually have argued and you decided not to respond. If you want to refute those arguments, you are welcome to. Your arguments were illogical and had plenty of holes in them.
Mikal
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7/8/2016 8:40:34 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

It's okay, you are a kidult, you are not a person. Now go back to your cradle and suck on your pacifier
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 8:41:37 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:33:11 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:

I have not seen you post any reason for why you support abolition. I even made a thread asking for reasons to which you pretty much stated that you don't want to discuss them. I can't give "consideration" to reasoning that I've never heard.

I have considered other's reasoning. Many have voted abolition because it's amusing. Many have voted Wylted because they think it's funny to elect someone who doesn't do anything. I'm judging them based on their reasoning, not the mere fact of who they voted.

But if you have some brilliant reasoning for abolishing the presidency which goes beyond the usual reasoning thrown around, I very much look forward to hearing it.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,105
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7/8/2016 8:43:11 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:40:34 PM, Mikal wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:54:01 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 7:50:17 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
I'd really hate to see a referendum-type vote on abolition.

Consider the context: an old and respected debate site where a lot of established members left or have become inactive to be replaced by some twenty to thirty teenagers and a handful of kidults. We hold a referendum now, people will vote to abolish. That doesn't mean that's what's good for the site.

Every respectable member is voting for DK but there aren't enough left. I'm sure this site will go through cycles where at some point in the future, the demographics might change and more mature adults will join. I just don't know if allowing the current crop of teenagers and kidults to influence the direction of the site is a good idea rather than establishing that this is the way we do things and letting them choose whether DDO is right for them.

Don't kill your credibility any more.

It's okay, you are a kidult, you are not a person. Now go back to your cradle and suck on your pacifier

I already was, though. What do I do to add onto that?!?
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

DDO Risk King
TheGreatAndPowerful
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7/8/2016 8:45:51 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:41:37 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
At 7/8/2016 8:33:11 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:

I have not seen you post any reason for why you support abolition. I even made a thread asking for reasons to which you pretty much stated that you don't want to discuss them. I can't give "consideration" to reasoning that I've never heard.

I have considered other's reasoning. Many have voted abolition because it's amusing. Many have voted Wylted because they think it's funny to elect someone who doesn't do anything. I'm judging them based on their reasoning, not the mere fact of who they voted.

But if you have some brilliant reasoning for abolishing the presidency which goes beyond the usual reasoning thrown around, I very much look forward to hearing it.

Why? Doesn't seem like you need it to draw conclusions about other people.
F-16_Fighting_Falcon
Posts: 18,324
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7/8/2016 8:47:01 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
Like, I don't even know what's happened to you, drafter. Ever since you had that vote removed, it seems like you have a vendetta against the site, you want to make sure to never, ever do anything productive, or engage in a serious discussion without resorting to sarcasm. It seems like you are determined to not add value to the site because of a grudge you had against getting your vote removed years ago. It was so long ago, I'm not sure why you still care that much that one random person who probably isn't even here anymore thought your vote on a debate was inadequate.
TheGreatAndPowerful
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7/8/2016 8:51:14 PM
Posted: 5 months ago
At 7/8/2016 8:47:01 PM, F-16_Fighting_Falcon wrote:
Like, I don't even know what's happened to you, drafter. Ever since you had that vote removed, it seems like you have a vendetta against the site, you want to make sure to never, ever do anything productive, or engage in a serious discussion without resorting to sarcasm. It seems like you are determined to not add value to the site because of a grudge you had against getting your vote removed years ago. It was so long ago, I'm not sure why you still care that much that one random person who probably isn't even here anymore thought your vote on a debate was inadequate.

Dude, you agree this site has turned to crap, so why is it surprising to you that others also think it is crap?

I'm not inclined to argue or debate with you F16, you've changed as well (though you deny it). You are rude and condescending and deliberately antagonistic. THAT'S why I'm not going to bother discussing this in any depth with you because you're just going to post wikipedia articles to common logical terms. That's juvenile and snotty and I'm frankly not interesting in wading through tripe like that.

Simply point, I have nothing to gain by hand holding you down the path of my reasoning. None. And you're certainly no longer a person with whom I would volunteer my time and energy to do that.