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Presidency/Abolition Referendum discussion

1harderthanyouthink
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7/8/2016 8:58:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
I'm making a thread for arguing for/against the Presidency and abolition before any referendum takes place - which is a very real thing. I don't know when exactly it is set for, but I believe it will happen somewhere between tonight and right after the election ends.

So, for the sake of caution, I'm creating this now. Argue for both sides, and whatever either outcome may entail.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
bsh1
Posts: 29,018
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7/8/2016 9:02:27 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
No referendum should happen for awhile. Give it two to three weeks, so that all sides have ample time to discuss and new voters can get informed.
I'm a Bish.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/8/2016 9:07:48 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.

At that point you might as well just wait for the next election.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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7/8/2016 9:10:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:07:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.

At that point you might as well just wait for the next election.

Seriously? It is not that long of a time, and 3 months is a good amount of time to transition out of a presidency.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/8/2016 9:10:55 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:10:04 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:07:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.

At that point you might as well just wait for the next election.

Seriously? It is not that long of a time, and 3 months is a good amount of time to transition out of a presidency.

Yes. That is a "long time".
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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7/8/2016 9:15:36 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:10:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:10:04 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:07:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.

At that point you might as well just wait for the next election.

Seriously? It is not that long of a time, and 3 months is a good amount of time to transition out of a presidency.

Yes. That is a "long time".

Then you deserve all the kid insults F16 throws your way
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/8/2016 9:18:40 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:15:36 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:10:55 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:10:04 PM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:07:48 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:06:54 PM, Wylted wrote:
We should wait 3 months. It will give us enough time to discuss it and make rules to prevent the things that people have a problem with happening in this election.

At that point you might as well just wait for the next election.

Seriously? It is not that long of a time, and 3 months is a good amount of time to transition out of a presidency.

Yes. That is a "long time".

Then you deserve all the kid insults F16 throws your way

That's not really going to help you.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/8/2016 9:20:04 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:02:27 PM, bsh1 wrote:
No referendum should happen for awhile. Give it two to three weeks, so that all sides have ample time to discuss and new voters can get informed.

Lol, Airmax is thinking about doing it tonight.
bsh1
Posts: 29,018
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7/8/2016 9:24:34 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:20:04 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:02:27 PM, bsh1 wrote:
No referendum should happen for awhile. Give it two to three weeks, so that all sides have ample time to discuss and new voters can get informed.

Lol, Airmax is thinking about doing it tonight.

I think, obviously, that such a course of action would be hasty and ill-advised. That is why I posted as I did.
I'm a Bish.
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/8/2016 9:38:25 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:20:04 PM, TheGreatAndPowerful wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:02:27 PM, bsh1 wrote:
No referendum should happen for awhile. Give it two to three weeks, so that all sides have ample time to discuss and new voters can get informed.

Lol, Airmax is thinking about doing it tonight.

The reason for this was that this election was set to be the referendum. It was just DK and Bench, and everyone acknowledged this. It's also one of the reasons I dropped.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
Mikal
Posts: 11,859
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7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
We could always carry out F16s idea. Send every member on the site (or specifically members that contributed to the "golden age") a pm with the option to vote on the sites direction. It's totally okay if they have not logged on in 3 years, we can hope they come back. Then when they do come back, we can have a "true" site consensus on what direction we should go in.

On a more realistic note

The referendum should be done tonight as max was planning with 3 primary choices

Abolish
Keep
Convention
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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7/8/2016 9:55:51 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
This election was never going to be a vote for abolition or not. I would have voted Bench ober DK and I was pro presidency. A random announcement on that vote is inappropriat. We haven't evwn had a chance to negotiate a fair way to handle this particular vote
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,578
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7/8/2016 9:59:37 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
We could always carry out F16s idea. Send every member on the site (or specifically members that contributed to the "golden age") a pm with the option to vote on the sites direction. It's totally okay if they have not logged on in 3 years, we can hope they come back. Then when they do come back, we can have a "true" site consensus on what direction we should go in.


On a more realistic note

The referendum should be done tonight as max was planning with 3 primary choices

Abolish
Keep
Convention

Yeah, I don't care about when it's held, but a three choice runoff would be a good option.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/8/2016 10:10:46 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
We could always carry out F16s idea. Send every member on the site (or specifically members that contributed to the "golden age") a pm with the option to vote on the sites direction. It's totally okay if they have not logged on in 3 years, we can hope they come back. Then when they do come back, we can have a "true" site consensus on what direction we should go in.


On a more realistic note

The referendum should be done tonight as max was planning with 3 primary choices

Abolish
Keep
Convention

I think that a mandate should be required to move forward with any option, so whatever the top two choices are should be pitted against each other after the first referendum.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
Skepsikyma
Posts: 9,578
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7/8/2016 10:24:20 PM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 10:10:46 PM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
We could always carry out F16s idea. Send every member on the site (or specifically members that contributed to the "golden age") a pm with the option to vote on the sites direction. It's totally okay if they have not logged on in 3 years, we can hope they come back. Then when they do come back, we can have a "true" site consensus on what direction we should go in.


On a more realistic note

The referendum should be done tonight as max was planning with 3 primary choices

Abolish
Keep
Convention

I think that a mandate should be required to move forward with any option, so whatever the top two choices are should be pitted against each other after the first referendum.

Or just do ranked runoff. It's much more simple.
"Partout ou vous verrez un autel, la se trouve la civilisation."
- Joseph de Maistre -

"Woe that I live in bitter days,
As God is setting like a sun
And in his place, as lord and slave,
Man raises forth his heinous throne."
- Translation of 'Rhyfel', by Hedd Wyn -

Virtutem videant intabescantque relicta
imabench
Posts: 21,947
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7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015

Internet Missing Person Alert: Angsty teen with daddy issues who is a failed horse rapist and also may be a cross-dresser. If spotted, please contact your local animal control or whatever disease-control organization is close by so they may return the species back to its garbage container habitat.
TheGreatAndPowerful
Posts: 3,012
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7/9/2016 12:02:06 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

Is stuff like this that makes me want to vote for Wylted.
Wylted
Posts: 25,970
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7/9/2016 12:06:31 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

You are trying to change the rules because you are too stupid to put up a competent campaign, but I'm the piece of shitt?

Dude stop crying. Stop trying to have the rules xhanged because you are too much of a pvssy to handle a loss. Hell you'll probably cry and threaten to leave or kill yourself when this is over, you little baby.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,909
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7/9/2016 12:18:09 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:06:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

You are trying to change the rules because you are too stupid to put up a competent campaign, but I'm the piece of shitt?
^^...vvThis is how you treat members who disagree with you? vv...^^

Dude stop crying. Stop trying to have the rules xhanged because you are too much of a pvssy to handle a loss. Hell you'll probably cry and threaten to leave or kill yourself when this is over, you little baby.
I'm sorry I voted for you - you Satanic piece of shit. Are you having fun with your power trip? You don't care about the community. I threw my vote away on you.

You can't even get passed the swearing filter.
imabench
Posts: 21,947
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7/9/2016 12:23:50 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:06:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

You are trying to change the rules because you are too stupid to put up a competent campaign, but I'm the piece of shitt?

Im not trying to have the rules changed, im trying to have you be Disqualified as a candidate since youve resorted to every dirty tactic in the book to secure votes while me and DK have actually played a clean game.

And yes, you are the piece of sh*t. If you and your brainwashed supporters have issue accepting that, thats their/your problem, not mine :)

Dude stop crying. Stop trying to have the rules xhanged because you are too much of a pvssy to handle a loss. Hell you'll probably cry and threaten to leave or kill yourself when this is over, you little baby.

You realize im FOR abolition right? Or has that thought not crossed your mind? XD If the presidency is abolished at the end of the day then thats a win in my book, because Conventions were an invention purley for making abolition a legitimate option to vote for (something you failed to do last election if I recall correctly)

By all means, continue to be a whiny b*tch just because youre not the only one using behind the scenes tactics in the race anymore. Its fun to watch you squirm ;)
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015

Internet Missing Person Alert: Angsty teen with daddy issues who is a failed horse rapist and also may be a cross-dresser. If spotted, please contact your local animal control or whatever disease-control organization is close by so they may return the species back to its garbage container habitat.
imabench
Posts: 21,947
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7/9/2016 12:24:39 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:18:09 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:06:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

You are trying to change the rules because you are too stupid to put up a competent campaign, but I'm the piece of shitt?
^^...vvThis is how you treat members who disagree with you? vv...^^

Dude stop crying. Stop trying to have the rules xhanged because you are too much of a pvssy to handle a loss. Hell you'll probably cry and threaten to leave or kill yourself when this is over, you little baby.
I'm sorry I voted for you.

Yeah nice job being one of the idiots who wylted tricked into supporting him. You fit in perfect with his other legion of idiots who are trying to steal the election here
DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015

Internet Missing Person Alert: Angsty teen with daddy issues who is a failed horse rapist and also may be a cross-dresser. If spotted, please contact your local animal control or whatever disease-control organization is close by so they may return the species back to its garbage container habitat.
Emmarie
Posts: 1,909
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7/9/2016 12:36:19 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 12:24:39 AM, imabench wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:18:09 AM, Emmarie wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:06:31 AM, Wylted wrote:
At 7/9/2016 12:00:21 AM, imabench wrote:
The proper thing to do would have Wylted disqualified as a candidate since he dropped out do the race ages ago and resorted to completely unethical behavior to court votes from people, let those who voted for him vote for Me, DK, or to straight up abolish the presidency like YYW wanted to do with his vote..... It's not only the democratic thing to do, it would also be easy to install and not completely screw over all the work me and DK have sunk into campaigning up to this point.

If Wylted doesn't like that, he can go f*ck himself like the piece of sh*t he is :)

You are trying to change the rules because you are too stupid to put up a competent campaign, but I'm the piece of shitt?
^^...vvThis is how you treat members who disagree with you? vv...^^

Dude stop crying. Stop trying to have the rules xhanged because you are too much of a pvssy to handle a loss. Hell you'll probably cry and threaten to leave or kill yourself when this is over, you little baby.
I'm sorry I voted for you.

Yeah nice job being one of the idiots who wylted tricked into supporting him. You fit in perfect with his other legion of idiots who are trying to steal the election here

I don't appreciate being called an idiot, but it is actually warranted in this instance.
tejretics
Posts: 6,930
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7/9/2016 4:04:21 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
Abolish
Keep
Convention

The problem is, if abolition votes are split between Convention and Abolish, then Keep will win. But every abolitionist will prefer the other abolitionist stance to keeping the Presidency.
Just because you're magic doesn't mean you aren't real.

http://gotejas.com...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/9/2016 4:44:49 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 4:04:21 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
Abolish
Keep
Convention

The problem is, if abolition votes are split between Convention and Abolish, then Keep will win. But every abolitionist will prefer the other abolitionist stance to keeping the Presidency.

That's why I want a top two runoff.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
tejretics
Posts: 6,930
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7/9/2016 4:46:32 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 4:44:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
That's why I want a top two runoff.

No, what I want is a presidency vs. any form of abolition primary, and then a vote between the two kinds of abolition.
Just because you're magic doesn't mean you aren't real.

http://gotejas.com...
1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,745
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7/9/2016 4:52:48 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 4:46:32 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/9/2016 4:44:49 AM, 1harderthanyouthink wrote:
That's why I want a top two runoff.

No, what I want is a presidency vs. any form of abolition primary, and then a vote between the two kinds of abolition.

I don't like that.

If abolition wins, it is bound to have convention-style abbies voting for abolition. In the second referendum, it will have involved the entire site - including those voting to keep the Presidency - so pure abolition is near impossible in your proposal.
I'll see you on the Dark Side of the Moon.

So much has gone, and little is new.

DDO Risk King
YYW
Posts: 45,777
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7/9/2016 4:56:38 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/8/2016 9:55:51 PM, Wylted wrote:
This election was never going to be a vote for abolition or not.

This is exactly correct.

I would have voted Bench ober DK and I was pro presidency. A random announcement on that vote is inappropriat. We haven't evwn had a chance to negotiate a fair way to handle this particular vote

Yes, and dislike of DK likely would have bolstered the abolitionist perspective in any event.

A referendum is the only way to fairly determine what people want, because many don't want the conventions (mostly because they are stupid).
YYW
Posts: 45,777
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7/9/2016 4:59:11 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 4:04:21 AM, tejretics wrote:
At 7/8/2016 9:52:37 PM, Mikal wrote:
Abolish
Keep
Convention

The problem is, if abolition votes are split between Convention and Abolish, then Keep will win. But every abolitionist will prefer the other abolitionist stance to keeping the Presidency.

Obviously, which is why the site must decide whether to abolish the presidency before it decides what if anything to replace it with, and that much has been clear from the start.

F16's idea is stupid and Mikal's suggesting it here is even more so.
tejretics
Posts: 6,930
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7/9/2016 5:00:20 AM
Posted: 1 year ago
At 7/9/2016 4:59:11 AM, YYW wrote:
F16's idea is stupid and Mikal's suggesting it here is even more so.

Mikal was trolling about that - that's why he said "on a more realistic note."
Just because you're magic doesn't mean you aren't real.

http://gotejas.com...