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Wylted
Posts: 21,167
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7/14/2016 8:23:21 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
There comes a time when we need to put partisan politics and petty feuds behind us and build bridges instead of walls, and that time is now.

I know that there are many passionate people on both sides of this issue, and I know that no matter what we do, not everyone is going to be happy. But it is time to build bridges to a better DDO, and that must start with us recognizing that the animosities, the vitriol, and the drama created by the status quo, can not be maintained if we hope to build a better future for every member of DDO.

We must accept that, while there is no perfect system, and no system at all that could truly indicate the totality of opinions on DDO, it is clear the the DDO presidency is causing us more problems, than in it is preventing.

With the expressions recently made, and what I feel is an inevitability in the future, I say this, not because I care for my own status, but because the only status any of us should care about, is the status of DDO.

With that sentiment in mind, I accept the will of the community to abolish the presidency, and effective immediately, step down. But I arise as any other member capable of effecting great change on this site, and that commitment is stronger now than ever before.

Airmax and I have discussed this at length, and he and I agree that given the current conditions, this is the best way to go, not only for us and anyone particularly concerned, but for the totality of the site and its membership.

With that, this issue should be considered resolved, but that means that we can now get to building a greater DDO. Airmax and I have already begun discussions on ways that we can move forward, and we both look forward to working together without all of the side issues that would inevitably only be a distraction.

Airmax recognizes that without the presidency, there are issues that will need to be resolved, and mechanisms that can and should be put in its place to act as a balance to moderation. He has explicitly asked me to explore methods that would be agreeable to the community, and to work with him on implementing them. I look forward to working with him closely on this and with anyone else that is interested.

I believe that any concerned member can achieve anything on this site that they really want to, and I believe that without the former distractions, we can really encourage members to believe that. Airmax and I have committed to working together, and with everyone else, outside of the distraction of the politics, not as the moderator and president, not as the moderator and another member, but simply as two members, like anyone else, truly concerned about the future of this site.

I believe that we all just want a fun place where we can debate, discuss ideas, and be free to express ourselves. There are many ways that Airmax and I disagree, but as Airmax and I discussed this tonight, it's clear that he and I agree that we both must do what is best for DDO and reconcile our differences for the sake of the community. In that spirit, we both feel that we need to work together to find a better way forward.

At Airmax's request, I am going to head the Community Transition Committee, a committee specifically intended to find a way to resolve all of the issues associated with this change, in an effort to maintain the best of what the presidency has to offer, while doing away with the worst. I invite everyone to contact me so that we can make this initiative as successful as possible.

I don't know what this will all look like at the end, or what this ultimately means for DDO, but in the end, what is important is that we take all of the energy we use for fighting about the presidency, and put that energy directly into making this site a better place for everyone. Only then, will this site truly move forward, and we can then start building the bridges today, to a better DDO tomorrow.
imabench
Posts: 21,218
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7/14/2016 8:25:53 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
I accept your surrender
Kevin24018 : "He's just so mean it makes me want to ball up my fists and stamp on the ground"

7/14/16 = The Presidency Dies

DDO: THE MOVIE = http://www.debate.org...
http://www.debate.org...

VP of DDO from Dec 14th 2014 to Jan 1st 2015
bsh1
Posts: 27,503
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7/14/2016 8:45:16 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Is Max really on board with this?
Live Long and Prosper

I'm a Bish.


"Twilight isn't just about obtuse metaphors between cannibalism and premarital sex, it also teaches us the futility of hope." - Raisor

"[Bsh1] is the Guinan of DDO." - ButterCatX

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Adam_Godzilla
Posts: 2,487
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7/14/2016 9:23:14 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:25:53 AM, imabench wrote:
I accept your surrender

Was this really a fight though? I mean he did get elected. He proved to us that simple strategies work. For that I have to commend him. He was also professional to the end. I think today marks the day we remember Wylted as the one who got us. Got everyone. Made us realise what this site became, and how we should change it.

But congrats Ima, you did it.
New episode of OUTSIDERS: http://www.debate.org...
Episode 4 - They walk among us
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 11:53:29 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
Congratulations, Wylted, for being elected the DDO President--a Satanist.

I have to admit: I'm a little jealous. I wish I was as naughty as you, then I'd go far in the world. Guess I'm just not cut-out for a mean place like Earth.

Good Luck, butt wipe!
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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7/14/2016 12:29:54 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:23:21 AM, Wylted wrote:
Airmax and I have discussed this at length, and he and I agree that given the current conditions, this is the best way to go, not only for us and anyone particularly concerned, but for the totality of the site and its membership.
...
Airmax recognizes that without the presidency, there are issues that will need to be resolved, and mechanisms that can and should be put in its place to act as a balance to moderation. He has explicitly asked me to explore methods that would be agreeable to the community, and to work with him on implementing them. I look forward to working with him closely on this and with anyone else that is interested.
...
At Airmax's request, I am going to head the Community Transition Committee, a committee specifically intended to find a way to resolve all of the issues associated with this change, in an effort to maintain the best of what the presidency has to offer, while doing away with the worst. I invite everyone to contact me so that we can make this initiative as successful as possible.

This like everything else is a flagrant lie. Not just a regular lie, or misrepresentation. This is a lie with DETAILS, which are lies themselves. A creative fabrication of fact.

Max has never asked for your resignation, you manipulative troll. You have not spoken to him about this. There will be no committee, unless the community decides to have a committee.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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7/14/2016 1:36:44 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 9:48:52 AM, desmac wrote:
Do we have any reason to believe Wylted when he says he is stepping down?

Upon further discussion, yes. There are details in this that are false, but based on what I have recently learned, something I did not expect has occurred and Wylted has agreed to step down voluntarily.

The referendum still goes on, however. Voting continues.
Tsar of DDO
YYW
Posts: 36,287
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7/14/2016 1:38:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:23:21 AM, Wylted wrote:
With the expressions recently made, and what I feel is an inevitability in the future, I say this, not because I care for my own status, but because the only status any of us should care about, is the status of DDO.

With that sentiment in mind, I accept the will of the community to abolish the presidency, and effective immediately, step down....

Airmax and I have discussed this at length, and he and I agree that given the current conditions, this is the best way to go, not only for us and anyone particularly concerned, but for the totality of the site and its membership.

With that, this issue should be considered resolved, but that means that we can now get to building a greater DDO. Airmax and I have already begun discussions on ways that we can move forward, and we both look forward to working together without all of the side issues that would inevitably only be a distraction.

I accept your resignation, and you can disregard the previous post.
Tsar of DDO
airmax1227
Posts: 13,241
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7/14/2016 1:39:45 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 8:45:16 AM, bsh1 wrote:
Is Max really on board with this?

Yes. Wylted and I discussed this last night and concluded with what is in the OP.

There isn't much to say beyond that right now, but I'll do my best to speak more about the issue this evening.
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Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:22:42 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Instead of a DDO Presidency...what about a DDO Parliament? Instead, we elect MPs, and the MPs elect the Prime Minister, to govern DDO. We should have elections every six months and maybe vote on five MPs, where each MP is selected by a specific constituency of DDO (maybe new members, members who've joined longer than two years, etc.)

Thoughts?
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:25:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I think this would help reduce hostility and tension. Jealousy would also be reduced by this, because then we could get several people to lead DDO, rather than just one person that everyone directs their anathema at.
Biodome
Posts: 138
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7/14/2016 2:37:37 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:22:42 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Instead of a DDO Presidency...what about a DDO Parliament? Instead, we elect MPs, and the MPs elect the Prime Minister, to govern DDO. We should have elections every six months and maybe vote on five MPs, where each MP is selected by a specific constituency of DDO (maybe new members, members who've joined longer than two years, etc.)

Thoughts?

Seems too complicated and unnecessary for a mere online community. We don't run a country, we debate and have fun in the forums. I'd prefer a less bureaucratic and less formal management.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.
Biodome
Posts: 138
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7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.
Biodome
Posts: 138
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7/14/2016 2:50:36 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.

No, you're confusing community management with the enforcement of ToS and Voting guidelines.

Airmax can appoint moderators, but they are only there to watch over the website and enforce rules. None of them really represent the community or decide on community issues. We can decide to elect a president, we can create a Parliament, hell we can even declare that we are a Galactic Empire and appoint Emperor Palpatine, but none of this has to be approved or promoted by Airmax or the moderators. These are strictly issues of the community, and the community alone decides this, usually by the will of the majority.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:51:39 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I think the DDO Presidency is too dictatorial anyway.

I would prefer a more democratic body to lead DDO. But that's just my opinion.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:56:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:50:36 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.

No, you're confusing community management with the enforcement of ToS and Voting guidelines.

Airmax can appoint moderators, but they are only there to watch over the website and enforce rules. None of them really represent the community or decide on community issues. We can decide to elect a president, we can create a Parliament, hell we can even declare that we are a Galactic Empire and appoint Emperor Palpatine, but none of this has to be approved or promoted by Airmax or the moderators. These are strictly issues of the community, and the community alone decides this, usually by the will of the majority.

So how the hell do the enforcement ToS and Voting guidelines come into effect -- by a DDO mob? No. Someone types this up and then enforces it. "Will of the majority" sounds like a magicial statement. Be more precise.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 2:58:12 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:56:12 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:50:36 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.

No, you're confusing community management with the enforcement of ToS and Voting guidelines.

Airmax can appoint moderators, but they are only there to watch over the website and enforce rules. None of them really represent the community or decide on community issues. We can decide to elect a president, we can create a Parliament, hell we can even declare that we are a Galactic Empire and appoint Emperor Palpatine, but none of this has to be approved or promoted by Airmax or the moderators. These are strictly issues of the community, and the community alone decides this, usually by the will of the majority.

So how the hell do the enforcement ToS and Voting guidelines come into effect -- by a DDO mob? No. Someone types this up and then enforces it. "Will of the majority" sounds like a magicial statement. Be more precise.

The will of the majority can only be decided through democratic procedures. Otherwise it's airmax and his appointed moderators that decide these things. If there's no democratic procedure for it, it certainly isn't the "will of the majority", as you claim.
Biodome
Posts: 138
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7/14/2016 3:01:48 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:51:39 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
I think the DDO Presidency is too dictatorial anyway.

I would prefer a more democratic body to lead DDO. But that's just my opinion.

I haven't really felt that past Presidencies were too dictatorial. All of the candidates had their platforms, which were voted for democratically. And then the most popular platform won and the President had the authority, given by the community, to do as he had promised. Of course, this excludes Presidents who lied their way through the elections and had no intention of doing what they had promised.
Biodome
Posts: 138
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7/14/2016 3:04:58 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 2:56:12 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:50:36 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.

No, you're confusing community management with the enforcement of ToS and Voting guidelines.

Airmax can appoint moderators, but they are only there to watch over the website and enforce rules. None of them really represent the community or decide on community issues. We can decide to elect a president, we can create a Parliament, hell we can even declare that we are a Galactic Empire and appoint Emperor Palpatine, but none of this has to be approved or promoted by Airmax or the moderators. These are strictly issues of the community, and the community alone decides this, usually by the will of the majority.

So how the hell do the enforcement ToS and Voting guidelines come into effect -- by a DDO mob? No. Someone types this up and then enforces it. "Will of the majority" sounds like a magicial statement. Be more precise.

The ToS and Voting guidelines are enforced by the website management, not the community management. The community cannot vote for who manages the website. Juggle owns this website and they can decide on the ToS which every user accepts upon registration. Voting Guidelines can be changed, and the community can influence those decisions, but ultimately airmax has the full authority here.
Juan_Pablo_4_hillary
Posts: 32
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7/14/2016 3:06:25 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/14/2016 3:04:58 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:56:12 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:50:36 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:47:02 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:43:51 PM, Biodome wrote:
At 7/14/2016 2:40:25 PM, Juan_Pablo_4_hillary wrote:
Okay. The DDO Presidency has no been abolished, according to Wylted. That pretty much leaves airmax with all authority.

Airmax doesn't really manage the community. The community manages itself.

I never selected or voted for a debate moderator. They've disqualified my votes in several debates and I thought my justifications for these votes were quite good. I had no say here. So, no, the community (which I'm a part of) doesn't manage itself. Someone with authority manages the community.

No, you're confusing community management with the enforcement of ToS and Voting guidelines.

Airmax can appoint moderators, but they are only there to watch over the website and enforce rules. None of them really represent the community or decide on community issues. We can decide to elect a president, we can create a Parliament, hell we can even declare that we are a Galactic Empire and appoint Emperor Palpatine, but none of this has to be approved or promoted by Airmax or the moderators. These are strictly issues of the community, and the community alone decides this, usually by the will of the majority.

So how the hell do the enforcement ToS and Voting guidelines come into effect -- by a DDO mob? No. Someone types this up and then enforces it. "Will of the majority" sounds like a magicial statement. Be more precise.

The ToS and Voting guidelines are enforced by the website management, not the community management. The community cannot vote for who manages the website. Juggle owns this website and they can decide on the ToS which every user accepts upon registration. Voting Guidelines can be changed, and the community can influence those decisions, but ultimately airmax has the full authority here.

That isn't the "will of the majority" then. So you're argument that the community manages itself is rubbish.