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Debaters to set their own voting standards

tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
famousdebater
Posts: 3,943
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7/15/2016 4:46:24 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

It'd be way too complicated for moderation to asses all debates by different standards.
"Life calls the tune, we dance."
John Galsworthy
David_Debates
Posts: 252
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7/15/2016 4:50:49 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

Agreed. Sometimes I feel like my vote was good enough (like on a joke debate), but it was removed for not being specific enough on certain things. I totally agree, kinda make a 1-5 of "levels of voting," with 1 being votebomb and 5 being super-detailed.
lannan13
Posts: 23,078
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7/15/2016 5:56:59 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

You can already do that in the status quo.
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dsjpk5
Posts: 3,007
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7/16/2016 6:24:56 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

You already can do that, from the 7 point system, to the select winner, to the opt in standards, to no rfd required.
If that was the only issue, then vote moderation could be avoided more often, since a vote in which the voter does explain sufficiently how at least one point a debater made swung their vote, would be considered sufficient. -Airmax
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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7/16/2016 7:39:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
No. It would just make vote moderation too difficult. Also, I see no reason why all votes shouldn't be held to the same standard. The only true reason I see for accepting lowered standards (or even the option for lower standards), is because you either lost when bad votes were removed, or you have a vote of your own removed.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/17/2016 11:40:03 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

This is already allowed. I actually PM'd Whiteflame about it not too long ago.

First of all, there are already a multitude of options available to debaters. You can go by the no RFD system, which is the lowest of standards: none. Then you can do the 7-point system, and then the opt-in 7-point system. Then there's select winner, and opt-in select winner. Then you can nominate judges, and set the standards for criteria on who can vote (Elo minimums and maximums).

But outside of that you can set specific rules in R1. So in R1 I could say that no points should be alloted in the spelling and grammar section, and my opponent agrees to this by accepting the debate. Any vote that allots points in that category can then be removed. Just report the vote and say violates standards set in R1. As long as the special rule is very clear, you're allowed to do it. So this allows the debater to seek the special amount of standards that you desire
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/17/2016 11:41:28 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 4:46:24 PM, famousdebater wrote:
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

It'd be way too complicated for moderation to asses all debates by different standards.

Not really. The report would say in the report comment that it violated specific R1 rules, and the moderator just has to skim the R1 thing to see the rule. As long as the rule is clear (votes that allot points in Spelling and Grammar section aren't allowed), it should be allowed by moderators. And it actually is, as I specifically PMd whiteflame about it a while back
tajshar2k
Posts: 2,385
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7/17/2016 11:41:30 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 11:40:03 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

This is already allowed. I actually PM'd Whiteflame about it not too long ago.

First of all, there are already a multitude of options available to debaters. You can go by the no RFD system, which is the lowest of standards: none. Then you can do the 7-point system, and then the opt-in 7-point system. Then there's select winner, and opt-in select winner. Then you can nominate judges, and set the standards for criteria on who can vote (Elo minimums and maximums).

But outside of that you can set specific rules in R1. So in R1 I could say that no points should be alloted in the spelling and grammar section, and my opponent agrees to this by accepting the debate. Any vote that allots points in that category can then be removed. Just report the vote and say violates standards set in R1. As long as the special rule is very clear, you're allowed to do it. So this allows the debater to seek the special amount of standards that you desire

Ok I think you guys misunderstood me. I'm already aware of of the 3 different standards, but I'm talking about creating your own standards other than the 3 already present.
"In Guns We Trust" Tajshar2k
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/17/2016 11:43:14 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/15/2016 4:50:49 PM, David_Debates wrote:
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

Agreed. Sometimes I feel like my vote was good enough (like on a joke debate), but it was removed for not being specific enough on certain things. I totally agree, kinda make a 1-5 of "levels of voting," with 1 being votebomb and 5 being super-detailed.

If the debate is a troll debate, where both debaters post random troll stuff, the votes aren't moderated. But if the debate is on a troll topic and debater's post serious arguments for it, then its moderated. I don't know if we should allow numbered tiers of levels of voting standards, but debaters are already allowed to specificly tailor the amount of voting standards they want.
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/17/2016 11:46:59 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/16/2016 7:39:28 PM, Unitomic wrote:
No. It would just make vote moderation too difficult.

http://www.debate.org...

Also, I see no reason why all votes shouldn't be held to the same standard. The only true reason I see for accepting lowered standards (or even the option for lower standards), is because you either lost when bad votes were removed, or you have a vote of your own removed.

If the voting standards are too strict, voters are less likely to vote on your debates. So if you have a super long debate, and you have super high voting standards, like opt-in or whatever, you're unlikely to get a lot of votes. But the one's you get will be high quality.

But some debaters would rather have a multitude of lower quality votes, which is a perfectly reasonable stance. Thus they are able to lower their voting standards to allow for that.

Giving the debater's autonomy to choose their preference (reap the benefits of more votes, or whatever) is a tremendous benefit. There's no real harm to it anyways as long as both debaters consent to it. Its an action with no harm and tremendous benefit, its awesome!
Hayd
Posts: 4,022
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7/17/2016 11:48:55 PM
Posted: 4 months ago
At 7/17/2016 11:41:30 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
At 7/17/2016 11:40:03 PM, Hayd wrote:
At 7/15/2016 2:25:17 PM, tajshar2k wrote:
I always have thought about this, but why shouldn't debaters be allowed to pick their own voting standards for their debate? For example, say some people think the current voting standards are too strict, and rather have it eased up a bit to have more people vote. I think they should be allowed to do that, as long as they list it in the first round, and the opponent agrees to it.

I think we should have several tiers on how strict the standards should be. Do you think it's a good idea?

This is already allowed. I actually PM'd Whiteflame about it not too long ago.

First of all, there are already a multitude of options available to debaters. You can go by the no RFD system, which is the lowest of standards: none. Then you can do the 7-point system, and then the opt-in 7-point system. Then there's select winner, and opt-in select winner. Then you can nominate judges, and set the standards for criteria on who can vote (Elo minimums and maximums).

But outside of that you can set specific rules in R1. So in R1 I could say that no points should be alloted in the spelling and grammar section, and my opponent agrees to this by accepting the debate. Any vote that allots points in that category can then be removed. Just report the vote and say violates standards set in R1. As long as the special rule is very clear, you're allowed to do it. So this allows the debater to seek the special amount of standards that you desire

Ok I think you guys misunderstood me. I'm already aware of of the 3 different standards, but I'm talking about creating your own standards other than the 3 already present.

Read the second paragraph:

But outside of that you can set specific rules in R1. So in R1 I could say that no points should be alloted in the spelling and grammar section, and my opponent agrees to this by accepting the debate. Any vote that allots points in that category can then be removed. Just report the vote and say violates standards set in R1. As long as the special rule is very clear, you're allowed to do it. So this allows the debater to seek the special amount of standards that you desire
Unitomic
Posts: 591
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7/18/2016 5:33:03 AM
Posted: 4 months ago
tough? I'll take a hundred high quality votes to a thousand lower standard votes. If the standards are too high, lower them, but don't make the mods job harder then it already is.