Total Posts:44|Showing Posts:1-30|Last Page
Jump to topic:

Leaderboard Suggestions/Voting

ChristianM
Posts: 1,764
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 12:46:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
There have been many suggestion to the new ratings system such as:

(Compliments of J.Kenyon)
The Elo Rating System

The Elo system was developed as a way to rate the relative skill of professional chess players. Since then, it's been adapted to other games and sports including professional football, basketball, baseball, and tennis. The average professional chess player has a rating of around 2,500. A typical club player is usually around 1,500.

When an Elo system is implemented, everyone begins with a default rating of 1,300. If you win a debate, your rating goes up; if you lose a debate your rating goes down. Beating someone with a significantly rating higher than yours will cause your score to increase more than beating someone with an equal or lesser rating would. Losing to someone with a significantly higher rating will have a minimal effect on either of your respective ratings. The differential varies proportionately.

(Compliments of OreEle)
Wins^2/#oflosses = Rating

(Compliments of Nags)
There should be more emphasis on win ratio instead of wins. For example, on the first page of the leaderboard, a person who is 65-47 is ahead of a person who is 48-3. This should not happen. That is it for now, thoughts?

(Compliments of Kleptin)
F*ck the leaderboard.
--------------------------
Here we can vote on a possible change for the folks at Juggle to work on for us; feel free to drop a suggestion by.
ChristianM
Posts: 1,764
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 12:57:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 12:56:12 PM, Zetsubou wrote:
Does anyone know a graphing system that works with equations, not data?

I'm gonna try and compare them.

Clarify that...like I have a TI-89 Plus on my comp if thatll help haha
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:04:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 12:46:33 PM, usafkid1121 wrote:
There have been many suggestion to the new ratings system such as:

(Compliments of J.Kenyon)
The Elo Rating System

The Elo system was developed as a way to rate the relative skill of professional chess players. Since then, it's been adapted to other games and sports including professional football, basketball, baseball, and tennis. The average professional chess player has a rating of around 2,500. A typical club player is usually around 1,500.

When an Elo system is implemented, everyone begins with a default rating of 1,300. If you win a debate, your rating goes up; if you lose a debate your rating goes down. Beating someone with a significantly rating higher than yours will cause your score to increase more than beating someone with an equal or lesser rating would. Losing to someone with a significantly higher rating will have a minimal effect on either of your respective ratings. The differential varies proportionately.

(Compliments of OreEle)
Wins^2/#oflosses = Rating

(Compliments of Nags)
There should be more emphasis on win ratio instead of wins. For example, on the first page of the leaderboard, a person who is 65-47 is ahead of a person who is 48-3. This should not happen. That is it for now, thoughts?

(Compliments of Kleptin)
F*ck the leaderboard.
--------------------------
Here we can vote on a possible change for the folks at Juggle to work on for us; feel free to drop a suggestion by.

win^2/loses is not what I advocated. I suggested wins^2/total debates, but then went on to a point based system.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Elo makes the most sense imo.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:14:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Elo makes the most sense imo.

If they're willing to do it--implementing it looks like it'd be a lot of work.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:19:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:14:04 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Elo makes the most sense imo.

If they're willing to do it--implementing it looks like it'd be a lot of work.

I don't know, y'all are talking about about one of the biggest shake ups in the leaderboard in a while. I think one wouldn't care but the rest might throw a dang fit. I could be wrong.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:20:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:19:33 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:14:04 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Elo makes the most sense imo.

If they're willing to do it--implementing it looks like it'd be a lot of work.

I don't know, y'all are talking about about one of the biggest shake ups in the leaderboard in a while. I think one wouldn't care but the rest might throw a dang fit. I could be wrong.

Well yeah, those that are like 88 - 74 are ranked pretty high, but in a new leaderboard, they probably won't be.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
jharry
Posts: 4,984
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:25:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:20:57 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:19:33 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:14:04 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Elo makes the most sense imo.

If they're willing to do it--implementing it looks like it'd be a lot of work.

I don't know, y'all are talking about about one of the biggest shake ups in the leaderboard in a while. I think one wouldn't care but the rest might throw a dang fit. I could be wrong.

Well yeah, those that are like 88 - 74 are ranked pretty high, but in a new leaderboard, they probably won't be.

I think the first page would look very diiferent if noob debates were scored differently.
In nomine Patris, et Filii, et Spiritus Sancti. Amen
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 3:27:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 3:25:53 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:20:57 PM, OreEle wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:19:33 PM, jharry wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:14:04 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 12/27/2010 3:13:28 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Elo makes the most sense imo.

If they're willing to do it--implementing it looks like it'd be a lot of work.

I don't know, y'all are talking about about one of the biggest shake ups in the leaderboard in a while. I think one wouldn't care but the rest might throw a dang fit. I could be wrong.

Well yeah, those that are like 88 - 74 are ranked pretty high, but in a new leaderboard, they probably won't be.

I think the first page would look very diiferent if noob debates were scored differently.

Thats true aswell. We want to make sure we find a way to encourage veteran vs veteran debates, without also discouraging rookie debates, since we need rookies for the site to grow.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:07:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I grouped Nags and OreLe's ideas together since they are basically the same -- both want the rankings to factor in total wins, but also emphasize W/L ratios. I think I have all the votes tallied, but I may have missed some.

Elo System

6 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot)

(Wins^2) / Losses

2 Votes (Nags, OreLe)

Scrap the Leaderboard

3 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:15:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:07:58 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
I grouped Nags and OreLe's ideas together since they are basically the same -- both want the rankings to factor in total wins, but also emphasize W/L ratios. I think I have all the votes tallied, but I may have missed some.

Elo System

6 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot)

(Wins^2) / Losses

2 Votes (Nags, OreLe)

Scrap the Leaderboard

3 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden)

I did not vote for the wins^2/loses
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Grape
Posts: 989
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:16:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I strongly support the implementation of an Elo system. However, as I think we know it would change the leaderboard drastically (as would any system that penalizes losses).
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:19:14 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:15:19 PM, OreEle wrote:
I did not vote for the wins^2/loses

No? Oh, well you proposed it, so I figured you supported it.

Elo System

7 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

3 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:22:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 4:19:14 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:
At 12/27/2010 4:15:19 PM, OreEle wrote:
I did not vote for the wins^2/loses

No? Oh, well you proposed it, so I figured you supported it.

Elo System

7 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

3 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden)

I tossed it in as a brainstorming thing. I supported a point based system, as mentioned in the other thread.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 4:33:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Point System

(Proposed by OreLe)

If you win a debate, you get 20 points + 1 point for every win your opponent has (at the time of the win, or always fluctuating, either way). Take the total number of points squared, and divide by 20*X (where x = the total number of debates you've completed).

This means that a win against a veteran is worth more then a win against a newbie. However there are still points to be had against the newbies.

This basic formula can be reworked with different numbers (say 10 points +1 for each win, or 15 or whatever).

--------------

Elo System

7 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape)

Point System

1 Vote (OreLe)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

3 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden)
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 7:09:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Elo System

8 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape, wjmelements)

Point System

1 Vote (OreLe)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

4 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden, innomen)
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 7:10:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm voting ELO, though I've always prefered Wins^2/Debates, which is equivalent to Wins * WinPct.
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 9:24:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Scrap the Leaderboard
+ 1
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
Grape
Posts: 989
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 10:05:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
No need to scrap the leaderboard: if you don't like it, just ignore it. I fully agree that a leaderboard is pointless and proves nothing, but I like having one for the fun of it none the less.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/27/2010 10:32:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/27/2010 10:05:46 PM, Grape wrote:
No need to scrap the leaderboard: if you don't like it, just ignore it. I fully agree that a leaderboard is pointless and proves nothing, but I like having one for the fun of it none the less.

This.
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2010 2:33:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Elo System

10 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape, wjmelements, mongoose, mongeese)

Point System

1 Vote (OreLe)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

6 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden, innomen, ccstate4peat, vardas0antras)

I'm curious why anyone would support scrapping the leaderboard. If you don't care about it, then don't look at it. I don't play Mafia, and it wouldn't bother me much if it stopped, but I don't support getting rid of it because (a) it doesn't affect me one way or the other, and (b) other people like doing it, so why take their fun away?
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2010 2:37:08 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 12/29/2010 2:33:34 AM, J.Kenyon wrote:
Elo System

10 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape, wjmelements, mongoose, mongeese)

Point System

1 Vote (OreLe)

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard

6 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden, innomen, ccstate4peat, vardas0antras)

I'm curious why anyone would support scrapping the leaderboard. If you don't care about it, then don't look at it. I don't play Mafia, and it wouldn't bother me much if it stopped, but I don't support getting rid of it because (a) it doesn't affect me one way or the other, and (b) other people like doing it, so why take their fun away?

Go ahead and move my vote to ELO. I support the point system, but ELO is still a good system (I just like the idea of us coming up with out own system, rather then using a pre-made one), but I don't want to see the leaderboard get scraped.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/29/2010 2:41:30 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Elo System

11 Votes (J.Kenyon, Christopheratheist, LaissezFaire, m93samman, bluesteel, tvellalot, Grape, wjmelements, mongoose, mongeese, OreLe)

Point System

0 Votes

(Wins^2) / Losses

1 Vote (Nags)

Scrap the Leaderboard


6 Votes (Kleptin, Puck, gavin.ogden, innomen, ccstate4peat, vardas0antras)
RoyLatham
Posts: 4,488
Add as Friend
Challenge to a Debate
Send a Message
12/31/2010 1:22:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The Elo system sounds best to me. As with chess, it rewards players who advance their skills, and it doesn't reward wins by experienced debaters who pick on novices.

I don't see why anyone would object to having a leaderboard. You don't have to pay any attention to it.