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SolonKR
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9/26/2016 7:35:07 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Normally, these posts are made immediately after some crisis on the forums, with the result being that everyone immediately connects them to that incident, and nobody focuses on the actual content. Fortunately, the forums have been relatively conflict-free for the past few months, so this is the perfect time to talk about this.

Time and time again, I see people being cruel and abrasive on this forum, and justifying it with, "Well, I have the right to do this, and it's your fault if you're offended!", as if that is somehow a defense of their actions. It isn't, and here's why.

Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that it is the right thing to do (not my words, not sure where they came from). You have the right to tell the homeless man on the side of the road, "Get a job, you f***ing slob" (in the words of Everlast's "What it's Like"). You have the right to never donate a dime of your income to charity, no matter how rich you are. You have the right to express support for anything from involuntary euthanasia to segregation, and the right to attempt to drown out others by speaking louder than them. Even though you can do those things, you shouldn't do those things, because they're wrong.

On the forums, within a few limited parameters, you're allowed to be rude, aggressive, and you're allowed to denigrate others and their opinions to a certain extent. I'm not here to argue against your right to do that (I believe you do have a right to do that), but I am here to tell you this--there is no credible reason to do so, other than simply deriving amusement from attempting to harm others. Let's look at some of the most common excuses for this behavior.

"It's a rhetorical tactic!" In this line of thinking, being abrasive is essentially a tactic to A) make one's self appear more credible, and B) attempt to emotionally pummel opponents into submission. Immediately, this raises a concern of intellectual credibility--if the only way you can make your point convincing is by yelling it more angrily, it's probably not a good point. But, let's be charitable and assume that you've got a strong point, and you only want to make it more convincing. There are two audiences you can convince with any posts--bystanders, and possibly someone you are engaged in debate with. Obviously, berating the latter will generally only make them entrenched in their opinion even further (or leave it unchanged at best), so that leaves bystanders. If we assume that people generally have a sense of decency, while also assuming that they tend to have a herd mentality, then that immediately alienates people on the fence (who will be turned off by your rhetoric) and people in the herd (who, responding to your attack on their very way of life, will not stand for that). So, berating someone is not an effective rhetorical tactic.

"If you're offended, it's your own fault!" Setting aside the fact that people can't exactly help what they're offended by, you can't choose whether what you say offends people; however, you can choose whether you care. If I tell someone at the start of the week, "Ready to run on the hamster wheel again?" and they tell me "You monster, my hamster George was crushed in a tragic hamster wheel accident!" before running away in tears, I'll probably feel a bit bad that I reminded them of that, a bit confused as to why they were so attached to a hamster, and at the end of the day I'll know that I meant no offense whatsoever and couldn't have known that hamsters were such a sensitive subject, and that's it. But if I go back to that person the next day and say, "Hey, how's your trip on the hamster wheel?", then at that point I'm just intentionally being a jerk. There is no clear way to tell whether someone intends malice with a remark, and to that end, there's no way to moderate against that. But you, the reader, know whether your own remarks are going to hurt someone, and if they are, there's a simple solution--phrase it differently. Now, of course there are some people who will be angry at you for even expressing a certain opinion. You shouldn't care about that; in that case, they really do have a problem that they should get help for. But you shouldn't intentionally be a jerk just because you can.

tl;dr There is no situation in which being a jerk is helpful to anyone. Think before you post, maybe reread it (that will make you sound smarter, anyway). If you think you're being a jerk, don't be a jerk.
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
bsh1
Posts: 27,504
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9/26/2016 7:40:27 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 7:35:07 AM, SolonKR wrote:
Normally, these posts are made immediately after some crisis on the forums, with the result being that everyone immediately connects them to that incident, and nobody focuses on the actual content. Fortunately, the forums have been relatively conflict-free for the past few months, so this is the perfect time to talk about this.

Time and time again, I see people being cruel and abrasive on this forum, and justifying it with, "Well, I have the right to do this, and it's your fault if you're offended!", as if that is somehow a defense of their actions. It isn't, and here's why.

Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that it is the right thing to do (not my words, not sure where they came from). You have the right to tell the homeless man on the side of the road, "Get a job, you f***ing slob" (in the words of Everlast's "What it's Like"). You have the right to never donate a dime of your income to charity, no matter how rich you are. You have the right to express support for anything from involuntary euthanasia to segregation, and the right to attempt to drown out others by speaking louder than them. Even though you can do those things, you shouldn't do those things, because they're wrong.

On the forums, within a few limited parameters, you're allowed to be rude, aggressive, and you're allowed to denigrate others and their opinions to a certain extent. I'm not here to argue against your right to do that (I believe you do have a right to do that), but I am here to tell you this--there is no credible reason to do so, other than simply deriving amusement from attempting to harm others. Let's look at some of the most common excuses for this behavior.

"It's a rhetorical tactic!" In this line of thinking, being abrasive is essentially a tactic to A) make one's self appear more credible, and B) attempt to emotionally pummel opponents into submission. Immediately, this raises a concern of intellectual credibility--if the only way you can make your point convincing is by yelling it more angrily, it's probably not a good point. But, let's be charitable and assume that you've got a strong point, and you only want to make it more convincing. There are two audiences you can convince with any posts--bystanders, and possibly someone you are engaged in debate with. Obviously, berating the latter will generally only make them entrenched in their opinion even further (or leave it unchanged at best), so that leaves bystanders. If we assume that people generally have a sense of decency, while also assuming that they tend to have a herd mentality, then that immediately alienates people on the fence (who will be turned off by your rhetoric) and people in the herd (who, responding to your attack on their very way of life, will not stand for that). So, berating someone is not an effective rhetorical tactic.

"If you're offended, it's your own fault!" Setting aside the fact that people can't exactly help what they're offended by, you can't choose whether what you say offends people; however, you can choose whether you care. If I tell someone at the start of the week, "Ready to run on the hamster wheel again?" and they tell me "You monster, my hamster George was crushed in a tragic hamster wheel accident!" before running away in tears, I'll probably feel a bit bad that I reminded them of that, a bit confused as to why they were so attached to a hamster, and at the end of the day I'll know that I meant no offense whatsoever and couldn't have known that hamsters were such a sensitive subject, and that's it. But if I go back to that person the next day and say, "Hey, how's your trip on the hamster wheel?", then at that point I'm just intentionally being a jerk. There is no clear way to tell whether someone intends malice with a remark, and to that end, there's no way to moderate against that. But you, the reader, know whether your own remarks are going to hurt someone, and if they are, there's a simple solution--phrase it differently. Now, of course there are some people who will be angry at you for even expressing a certain opinion. You shouldn't care about that; in that case, they really do have a problem that they should get help for. But you shouldn't intentionally be a jerk just because you can.

tl;dr There is no situation in which being a jerk is helpful to anyone. Think before you post, maybe reread it (that will make you sound smarter, anyway). If you think you're being a jerk, don't be a jerk.

+1
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1harderthanyouthink
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9/26/2016 7:45:09 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
I'm voting you for Hall of Fame next time that comes around.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

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Smithereens
Posts: 5,512
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9/26/2016 9:12:54 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
Ah, what lovely black squiggles on my screen.

But honestly don't you enjoy a yearly drama? I probably wouldn't come back to the site if everyone was so pleasant about their opinions. Humans are such beautiful creatures because of the diversity of their personalities, both good and bad. Tension and strife coexist with laughter and pleasantries. Friendship is cheesy with no animosity.

imo having douchebags who would rather insult you than argue the point is fine to have, just so long as they aren't there in place of normal people. There's also an issue of complexity here, you see most pleasant people you talk to are jerks under certain circumstances, and normal under most. There's no dichotomy saying people are nice or not. In essence, everyone is everything that you both love and hate -under different circumstances.

Having bad apples in the bunch however is probably something we'd only miss once they were gone. I think humans are beautiful to study thanks to this diversity.
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SeventhProfessor
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9/26/2016 8:05:04 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
No one needed or wanted etiquette advice from bozo the clown. Go fvck yourself.
#UnbanTheMadman

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#BetOnThett

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thett3
Posts: 14,381
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9/26/2016 8:08:11 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 7:35:07 AM, SolonKR wrote:

tl;dr There is no situation in which being a jerk isn't helpful to someone

Fixed that for you. Being a jerk is awesome, and I highly recommend it to everyone
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#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

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: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
thett3
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9/26/2016 8:10:58 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 8:05:04 PM, SeventhProfessor wrote:
No one needed or wanted etiquette advice from bozo the clown. Go fvck yourself.

I've never seen you make a post that wasn't completely idiotic in a trying-to-be-funny kind of way.

Newsflash: You'll never be the "funny" guy
DDO Vice President

#StandwithBossy

#UnbanTheMadman

#BetOnThett

"Don't quote me, ever." -Max

"My name is max. I'm not a big fan of slacks"- Max rapping

"Walmart should have the opportunity to bribe a politician to it's agenda" -Max

"Thett, you're really good at convincing people you're a decent person"-tulle

"You fit the character of Regina George quite nicely"- Sam

: At 11/12/2016 11:49:40 PM, Raisor wrote:
: thett was right
ShabShoral
Posts: 3,245
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9/26/2016 8:29:12 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
jesus christ get a job
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SolonKR
Posts: 4,043
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9/26/2016 10:33:08 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 8:08:11 PM, thett3 wrote:
At 9/26/2016 7:35:07 AM, SolonKR wrote:

tl;dr thett3 is a (suave) clown

Fixed that for you <3
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Perussi
Posts: 783
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9/27/2016 1:16:02 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/26/2016 7:35:07 AM, SolonKR wrote:
Normally, these posts are made immediately after some crisis on the forums, with the result being that everyone immediately connects them to that incident, and nobody focuses on the actual content. Fortunately, the forums have been relatively conflict-free for the past few months, so this is the perfect time to talk about this.

Time and time again, I see people being cruel and abrasive on this forum, and justifying it with, "Well, I have the right to do this, and it's your fault if you're offended!", as if that is somehow a defense of their actions. It isn't, and here's why.

Just because you have the right to do something does not mean that it is the right thing to do (not my words, not sure where they came from). You have the right to tell the homeless man on the side of the road, "Get a job, you f***ing slob" (in the words of Everlast's "What it's Like"). You have the right to never donate a dime of your income to charity, no matter how rich you are. You have the right to express support for anything from involuntary euthanasia to segregation, and the right to attempt to drown out others by speaking louder than them. Even though you can do those things, you shouldn't do those things, because they're wrong.

On the forums, within a few limited parameters, you're allowed to be rude, aggressive, and you're allowed to denigrate others and their opinions to a certain extent. I'm not here to argue against your right to do that (I believe you do have a right to do that), but I am here to tell you this--there is no credible reason to do so, other than simply deriving amusement from attempting to harm others. Let's look at some of the most common excuses for this behavior.

"It's a rhetorical tactic!" In this line of thinking, being abrasive is essentially a tactic to A) make one's self appear more credible, and B) attempt to emotionally pummel opponents into submission. Immediately, this raises a concern of intellectual credibility--if the only way you can make your point convincing is by yelling it more angrily, it's probably not a good point. But, let's be charitable and assume that you've got a strong point, and you only want to make it more convincing. There are two audiences you can convince with any posts--bystanders, and possibly someone you are engaged in debate with. Obviously, berating the latter will generally only make them entrenched in their opinion even further (or leave it unchanged at best), so that leaves bystanders. If we assume that people generally have a sense of decency, while also assuming that they tend to have a herd mentality, then that immediately alienates people on the fence (who will be turned off by your rhetoric) and people in the herd (who, responding to your attack on their very way of life, will not stand for that). So, berating someone is not an effective rhetorical tactic.

"If you're offended, it's your own fault!" Setting aside the fact that people can't exactly help what they're offended by, you can't choose whether what you say offends people; however, you can choose whether you care. If I tell someone at the start of the week, "Ready to run on the hamster wheel again?" and they tell me "You monster, my hamster George was crushed in a tragic hamster wheel accident!" before running away in tears, I'll probably feel a bit bad that I reminded them of that, a bit confused as to why they were so attached to a hamster, and at the end of the day I'll know that I meant no offense whatsoever and couldn't have known that hamsters were such a sensitive subject, and that's it. But if I go back to that person the next day and say, "Hey, how's your trip on the hamster wheel?", then at that point I'm just intentionally being a jerk. There is no clear way to tell whether someone intends malice with a remark, and to that end, there's no way to moderate against that. But you, the reader, know whether your own remarks are going to hurt someone, and if they are, there's a simple solution--phrase it differently. Now, of course there are some people who will be angry at you for even expressing a certain opinion. You shouldn't care about that; in that case, they really do have a problem that they should get help for. But you shouldn't intentionally be a jerk just because you can.

tl;dr There is no situation in which being a jerk is helpful to anyone. Think before you post, maybe reread it (that will make you sound smarter, anyway). If you think you're being a jerk, don't be a jerk.

"Well, I have the right to do this, and it's your fault if you're offended!"
I find this post offensive. You've contradicted yourself.
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Skepsikyma
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9/27/2016 4:36:22 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
What a fvcking clown. Go crawl in a hamster wheel.
"The Collectivist experiment is thoroughly suited (in appearance at least) to the Capitalist society which it proposes to replace. It works with the existing machinery of Capitalism, talks and thinks in the existing terms of Capitalism, appeals to just those appetites which Capitalism has aroused, and ridicules as fantastic and unheard-of just those things in society the memory of which Capitalism has killed among men wherever the blight of it has spread."
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SolonKR
Posts: 4,043
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9/27/2016 4:46:29 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 4:36:22 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Go crawl in a hamster wheel.

How... how could you?
*runs away in tears*
SO to Bailey, the love of my life <3
Vaarka
Posts: 7,653
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9/30/2016 3:09:52 PM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 4:46:29 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 9/27/2016 4:36:22 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Go crawl in a hamster wheel.

How... how could you?
*runs away in tears*

You can't run away when you're running in a hamster wheel.
You're probably thinking right now "haha I'm a genius". Well you're not -Valkrin

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1harderthanyouthink
Posts: 13,107
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10/1/2016 3:43:57 AM
Posted: 2 months ago
At 9/27/2016 4:46:29 AM, SolonKR wrote:
At 9/27/2016 4:36:22 AM, Skepsikyma wrote:
Go crawl in a hamster wheel.

How... how could you?
*runs away in tears*

That's what he wanted you to do with the wheel.
"It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here,
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear - that I'm not here."

-Syd Barrett

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