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RFD & Vote Bombing Updates

JuliaD
Posts: 79
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2/1/2011 1:00:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
While it may appear that we have been quiet on the forums the last week or so, we have actually been working on some new functionality to address some of the issues which have been brought to light concerning multi-accounting, vote bombing and leaving comments alongside your votes.

We plan on release an update within the next week that will require members to leave a "Reason for Decision" along with their vote. While this step does not eradicate vote bombing or multi-accounting, it does provide an outlet for members of this site to gain an understanding as to why members voted the way they did. I hope that the majority of the members of the site leverage this feature to not only improve the quality of the debates, but help set a new standard for voting practices on the site.

In a follow up release, we are evaluating the implementation of an activity based verification that will be layered on top of the current phone number verification requirement. This would require accounts to not only supply a phone number but also engage in a certain level of activity on the site prior to being able to vote on any debate. This should prevent a great deal of vote-bombing and mutli-accounting as it would significantly increase the requirements to be able to vote on multiple accounts.

The above changes will go into effect and will work in conjunction with IP logging on accounts to ensure that by all reasonable measures, multi-accounting and vote bombing will prove to be much more difficult than before.

Finally, in regards to the members on this site and the number of accounts that have been brought to our attention over the last few weeks regarding them as "vote bombers" we are reviewing the accounts and will take appropriate actions soon. Keep in mind that flare ups such as these tend to exacerbate the problem as we have to focus more of our effort on moderating and less on developing new features.

As always, when we have the release finalized and ready to go I will post again in the forums to communicate when and what to expect.

Thanks,
Julia
m93samman
Posts: 2,685
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2/1/2011 1:07:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Thank you for updating us and being such a prudent team. On behalf of all of us here at DDO, we appreciate your hard work.
: At 4/15/2011 5:29:37 PM, CosmicAlfonzo wrote:
: Pascal's wager is for poosies.
:
: I mean that sincerly, because it's basically an argument from poooosie.
:
: I'm pretty sure that's like a fallacy.. Argument ad Pussium or something like that.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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2/1/2011 4:45:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Wow. Thanks for being such an awesome team.
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: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 4:50:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
YES! THANK YOU.

This is awesome!
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 4:52:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
CunningLinguist
Posts: 6
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2/1/2011 4:53:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:00:02 PM, JuliaD wrote:
While it may appear that we have been quiet on the forums the last week or so, we have actually been banning the wrong users. While some are productive and point out those who are more of a detriment than a positive to this site, others are said detriments and are generally hated by the site as a whole.

We at Juggle have decided to stop the users who are trying to bring this site back to what it used to be by banning at least one of them and we will let this site decay to the point that new users will actively avoid the forums because of the spam and nonsense going on

Thanks,
Julia

Fuckin' Fixed
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 4:58:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also Julia, could you make it so that members themselves cannot vote on their own debates? Reason being is some people not having voting privileges cannot vote for themselves while the person debating usually always votes for themself.

It doesn't affect me personally but may affect some others especially the people internationally or newer members who would not be able to vote based on the new policy.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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2/1/2011 5:14:35 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 4:53:43 PM, CunningLinguist wrote:
At 2/1/2011 1:00:02 PM, JuliaD wrote:
While it may appear that we have been quiet on the forums the last week or so, we have actually been banning the wrong users. While some are productive and point out those who are more of a detriment than a positive to this site, others are said detriments and are generally hated by the site as a whole.

We at Juggle have decided to stop the users who are trying to bring this site back to what it used to be by banning at least one of them and we will let this site decay to the point that new users will actively avoid the forums because of the spam and nonsense going on

Thanks,
Julia

Fuckin' Fixed
I'm going to take a guess and say that this is ccstate4peat.
Thanks for the update.
I miss the old members.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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2/1/2011 5:33:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:00:02 PM, JuliaD wrote:
While it may appear that we have been quiet on the forums the last week or so, we have actually been working on some new functionality to address some of the issues which have been brought to light concerning multi-accounting, vote bombing and leaving comments alongside your votes.

We plan on release an update within the next week that will require members to leave a "Reason for Decision" along with their vote. While this step does not eradicate vote bombing or multi-accounting, it does provide an outlet for members of this site to gain an understanding as to why members voted the way they did. I hope that the majority of the members of the site leverage this feature to not only improve the quality of the debates, but help set a new standard for voting practices on the site.

In a follow up release, we are evaluating the implementation of an activity based verification that will be layered on top of the current phone number verification requirement. This would require accounts to not only supply a phone number but also engage in a certain level of activity on the site prior to being able to vote on any debate. This should prevent a great deal of vote-bombing and mutli-accounting as it would significantly increase the requirements to be able to vote on multiple accounts.

The above changes will go into effect and will work in conjunction with IP logging on accounts to ensure that by all reasonable measures, multi-accounting and vote bombing will prove to be much more difficult than before.

Finally, in regards to the members on this site and the number of accounts that have been brought to our attention over the last few weeks regarding them as "vote bombers" we are reviewing the accounts and will take appropriate actions soon. Keep in mind that flare ups such as these tend to exacerbate the problem as we have to focus more of our effort on moderating and less on developing new features.

As always, when we have the release finalized and ready to go I will post again in the forums to communicate when and what to expect.

Thanks,
Julia

Awesome! Thank you!
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
mongeese
Posts: 5,387
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2/1/2011 7:44:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
ccstate, you deserved your ban. You openly insulted the moderators for doing nothing when they were actually doing something behind the scenes.

And I second askbob's proposal for no self-votes. I'd also advocate the removal of all previous self-votes on this site, for the sake of fairness. People who vote themselves seven points without justification while their opponents give themselves five points with justification have an unfair advantage that ought not to exist.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 7:47:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
http://www.debate.org...

This user just vote bombed every single one of my debates
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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2/1/2011 7:50:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:47:02 PM, askbob wrote:
http://www.debate.org...

This user just vote bombed every single one of my debates

Reporting the user as we speak, also counteracting said votebombing.
I miss the old members.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 7:52:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
no don't counteract it for the sake of counteracting it.

Let the mod remove that user's votes when they ban them. Phil did have a system in place that allowed the mod to remove a banned users votes.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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2/1/2011 7:56:41 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:52:03 PM, askbob wrote:
no don't counteract it for the sake of counteracting it.

Let the mod remove that user's votes when they ban them. Phil did have a system in place that allowed the mod to remove a banned users votes.

Ah.
Removing them, now.
I miss the old members.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 7:57:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:55:44 PM, Atheism wrote:
Votes counteracted.

thanks but it really wasn't necessary because if that user's votes do get removed then I'll be up 7 points unfairly.

However if they are and you forget to change it back or legitamately vote, then I'll just change my votes to balance it out.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Atheism
Posts: 2,033
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2/1/2011 8:01:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:57:51 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/1/2011 7:55:44 PM, Atheism wrote:
Votes counteracted.

thanks but it really wasn't necessary because if that user's votes do get removed then I'll be up 7 points unfairly.

However if they are and you forget to change it back or legitamately vote, then I'll just change my votes to balance it out.

Nah, I removed my votes entirely. Though I will be reviewing a few of the debates anyways, though.
I miss the old members.
Yvette
Posts: 859
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2/1/2011 8:54:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 7:44:30 PM, mongeese wrote:
ccstate, you deserved your ban. You openly insulted the moderators for doing nothing when they were actually doing something behind the scenes.

And I second askbob's proposal for no self-votes. I'd also advocate the removal of all previous self-votes on this site, for the sake of fairness. People who vote themselves seven points without justification while their opponents give themselves five points with justification have an unfair advantage that ought not to exist.

I agree. While there are times where self-voting is justified--I myself have once or twice when I felt I had very clearly won and had been votebombed--having better protections against votebombing largely eradicates that justification.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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2/1/2011 9:04:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:00:02 PM, JuliaD wrote:
While it may appear that we have been quiet on the forums the last week or so, we have actually been working on some new functionality to address some of the issues which have been brought to light concerning multi-accounting, vote bombing and leaving comments alongside your votes.

We plan on release an update within the next week that will require members to leave a "Reason for Decision" along with their vote. While this step does not eradicate vote bombing or multi-accounting, it does provide an outlet for members of this site to gain an understanding as to why members voted the way they did. I hope that the majority of the members of the site leverage this feature to not only improve the quality of the debates, but help set a new standard for voting practices on the site.

Thank you very much, it is hard to increase the quality of debates if the quality of voting is completely ignored. And while not every effort is going to be successful nor perfect, the fact that it is being attempted shows great improvement already.


In a follow up release, we are evaluating the implementation of an activity based verification that will be layered on top of the current phone number verification requirement. This would require accounts to not only supply a phone number but also engage in a certain level of activity on the site prior to being able to vote on any debate. This should prevent a great deal of vote-bombing and mutli-accounting as it would significantly increase the requirements to be able to vote on multiple accounts.

The above changes will go into effect and will work in conjunction with IP logging on accounts to ensure that by all reasonable measures, multi-accounting and vote bombing will prove to be much more difficult than before.

Finally, in regards to the members on this site and the number of accounts that have been brought to our attention over the last few weeks regarding them as "vote bombers" we are reviewing the accounts and will take appropriate actions soon. Keep in mind that flare ups such as these tend to exacerbate the problem as we have to focus more of our effort on moderating and less on developing new features.

As always, when we have the release finalized and ready to go I will post again in the forums to communicate when and what to expect.

Thanks,
Julia

Thank you very much!
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
bluesteel
Posts: 12,301
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2/1/2011 9:07:52 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is so awesome. Thanks Juggle!
You can't reason someone out of a position they didn't reason themselves into - Jonathan Swift (paraphrase)
tvellalott
Posts: 10,864
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2/1/2011 9:13:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/1/2011 1:07:00 PM, m93samman wrote:
Thank you for updating us and being such a prudent team. On behalf of all of us here at DDO, we appreciate your hard work.

This.
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Muh threads
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mongoose
Posts: 3,500
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2/1/2011 9:16:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
About your IP verification, I hope you recognize that some people (mongeese and myself) are two different people yet are using the same IP address. If you were able to make a list of exceptions, or increase the limit for our address to two, that would be spectacular.
It is odd when one's capacity for compassion is measured not in what he is willing to do by his own time, effort, and property, but what he will force others to do with their own property instead.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/1/2011 9:21:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
my roommate and I are also on the same IP - Timbeech

http://www.debate.org...
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Yvette
Posts: 859
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2/2/2011 12:26:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Maybe a way to verify multiple users on the same IP is to have them log on at the same time? Or both text from different phones?

No method's perfect, but there should be a reasonable amount of wiggle room while not creating an easy, unverifiable loophole.
In the middle of moving to Washington. 8D

"If God does not exist, then chocolate causing cancer is only true for the society that has evidence for that." --GodSands
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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2/2/2011 12:46:17 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/2/2011 12:26:39 AM, Yvette wrote:
Maybe a way to verify multiple users on the same IP is to have them log on at the same time?
That is RIDICULOUSLY easy to circumvent. Just open different browsers.

Or both text from different phones?
That, OTOH, at the very least makes it cost money to cheat the system. :P
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
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2/2/2011 1:01:27 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
As an update - we removed a large number of votes from a number of debates that were cast from many of the reported "vote bombing" accounts. There are too many to detail here, but a number of the reported voting accounts and offending votes have been adjusted accordingly.

If you have any issues with the removed votes, please report them through the report flag or send a feedback message about the voting. Do not post it here in the forums.

It is much more efficient for us to moderate if members use the appropriate feedback channels as opposed to posting in the forums. Forums threads in mass are hard to review and keep track of, making it difficult to isolate the real issues.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/2/2011 2:06:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/2/2011 1:01:27 PM, Forum Moderator wrote:
If you have any issues with the removed votes, please report them through the report flag or send a feedback message about the voting.

Which report flag should we use in terms of reporting votes? Should we use the report flag on the users profile and then detail which user and which debate?

Would PMimg Julia be an acceptable solution or do you prefer using the report flag and detailing the alleged votebombing?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/2/2011 2:08:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Also what is the official solution for punishing a multi-accounter?

Do you:

1. Remove the alternative account and delete their votes

2. Remove both the alternative and the original account and remove only the alternative account's votes

3. Remove both the alternative and the original account and remove vote accounts' votes.

I am in favor of #3 as I think most people are.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos