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Keeping the Peace - Moderation Problems

askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 11:24:31 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Ok so the moderators have done two things that I frankly disagree pretty heavily on. These are the same types of moderation issues that really fouled up the original DDO when Phil was on.

1. A member was banned for insulting the moderators
2. A member was asked to take profile pictures down because they made fun of another member.

Seriously? I was pretty sure that the new owners said they would be taking a hands off approach to moderation and that the community as a whole agreed that this was to be how things were done.

How is it that the moderators (who supposedly have no time due to creating upgrades) which I do see being done and the upgrades are wonderful. I appreciate them a lot. But the moderators claim to have no time or desire to remove multi-accounts and votebombers. But somehow have time to police the forums and ban members for what I think are pretty trivial comments.

1. Banning someone for insulting you is a little ridiculous. I mean seriously just ignore it and do your best to communicate your position on whatever situation is bothering someone.

2. I really think profile pictures aren't harming anyone. Either look at it or don't look at it. Moderators have no place asking people to take them down unless they are hardcore porn or physical threats.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 11:34:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
That was the impression I got from the moderators when they announced who was making the new TOS
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Danielle
Posts: 21,330
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2/10/2011 11:37:06 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Anyway I for the most part agree, but I thought the v-bomb accounts were removed...? Also this sort of puts the owners between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they want their members to enjoy the privileges of free speech, but on the other hand malicious hate content that others find offensive to the point of driving them away from the website (or having people clog the forums with name calling and fighting instead of debating) is bad for business. As much as this is a community, ultimately Juggle purchased DDO (for thousands) as a business venture. It's in their best interest to enforce certain things to keep the site running smoothly. Also the mods might simply deem it a moral issue and not think it's cute to make fun of others? I dunno... c'est possible. I'm sure they will review each situation on a case by case basis. I'm betting both people who were banned were only banned because they were reported, which Juggle probably feels obligated to respond to.
President of DDO
Cerebral_Narcissist
Posts: 10,806
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2/10/2011 12:18:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I am all for freedom of speech, but that does not extend to 24/7 harrassment and defamation of members and people that are not even on this site!
I am voting for Innomen because of his intelligence, common sense, humility and the fact that Juggle appears to listen to him. Any other Presidential style would have a large sub-section of the site up in arms. If I was President I would destroy the site though elitism, others would let it run riot. Innomen represents a middle way that works, neither draconian nor anarchic and that is the only way things can work. Plus he does it all without ego trips.
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2/10/2011 12:50:43 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
To provide some clarity on the issues which are being discussed in this thread, here is some background information.

1) The member in question has a temporary ban in place and will have his account reinstated once the timeframe is up. He was not banned strictly for insulting the moderators. In reality, he requested to be banned, asked for action and we obliged.

2) The key point was the member was asked, politely, to take his images down. We did not remove them without notification or automatically.

The reality of the situation is, we would prefer to take a hands off approach to moderation and most of you seem to be ok with that, at least here in the forums. The problem is the sheer number of reports, emails, and messages asking for moderation of this item or this member contradicts the nature of taking a hands off approach.

To further clarify, we are not referring to reports on members vote bombing, but instead member vs member reports asking us to intervene on what appear to be issues founded on personal dislikes or disagreements between members. These types of reports & complaints tend to be the moderation issues that take up the majority of our time, aside from working on releases.

Moving forward, to ensure the most objective moderation of this site, we ask that you leverage the "Report" flags or the Feedback email as your two sole methods of reporting issues. These will ensure that the third parties review and moderate the issues instead of directly messaging moderators/owners of the site.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 12:53:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
1. Lets not kid ourselves. He was banned because he insulted the moderators. I have transcripts of the pm's that were sent.

You even said so yourself:

"I banned you specifically for your comments about the moderators of this site, not for other behaviors. As I said in the message I sent prior to banning you, your account would be closed for two weeks, at which point I would reactivate your account."

2. Regardless of how politely you ask you are still using the opinions of 3 people to take down photos that only 3 people find personally offensive. It's ridiculous.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 12:56:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm just saying the updates are wonderful keep doing those. Don't ask that pictures be taken down unless they are extreme and don't ban members for insulting the mods. You're the objective third party. Don't respond to insults with anything. I'd personally ignore them. The community as a whole loves you so just ignore what any dissenter has to say if it's insulting.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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2/10/2011 1:05:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 11:37:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Anyway I for the most part agree, but I thought the v-bomb accounts were removed...? Also this sort of puts the owners between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they want their members to enjoy the privileges of free speech, but on the other hand malicious hate content that others find offensive to the point of driving them away from the website (or having people clog the forums with name calling and fighting instead of debating) is bad for business. As much as this is a community, ultimately Juggle purchased DDO (for thousands) as a business venture. It's in their best interest to enforce certain things to keep the site running smoothly. Also the mods might simply deem it a moral issue and not think it's cute to make fun of others? I dunno... c'est possible. I'm sure they will review each situation on a case by case basis. I'm betting both people who were banned were only banned because they were reported, which Juggle probably feels obligated to respond to.:

I look at it this way. The freedom of speech can be suspended and usurped by private ownership. Juggle llc owns this website and the content on it... even our intellectual property (our thoughts, our ideas). They can make their own rules. The freedom of speech only really applies in the sense of government and citizen.

It's like somebody's house. Just because you're allowed to say whatever you want on the street, it doesn't mean you have the right to barge in to someone's house and out-shout them. The owner of the house rules the roost. Way it goes.

However, some websites are way too heavy-handed with dishing out bans. As a result, they lose their fan-base, because like anything else, we can all decide to protest and create www.FuckJuggleintheAss.com if we wanted to and they couldn't do anything about it.

Since I have no friggin clue who was banned, I can't say whether the appropriate amount of force used or not used.
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
lovelife
Posts: 14,629
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2/10/2011 1:25:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:05:57 PM, PARADIGM_L0ST wrote:
At 2/10/2011 11:37:06 AM, theLwerd wrote:
Anyway I for the most part agree, but I thought the v-bomb accounts were removed...? Also this sort of puts the owners between a rock and a hard place. On one hand they want their members to enjoy the privileges of free speech, but on the other hand malicious hate content that others find offensive to the point of driving them away from the website (or having people clog the forums with name calling and fighting instead of debating) is bad for business. As much as this is a community, ultimately Juggle purchased DDO (for thousands) as a business venture. It's in their best interest to enforce certain things to keep the site running smoothly. Also the mods might simply deem it a moral issue and not think it's cute to make fun of others? I dunno... c'est possible. I'm sure they will review each situation on a case by case basis. I'm betting both people who were banned were only banned because they were reported, which Juggle probably feels obligated to respond to.:

I look at it this way. The freedom of speech can be suspended and usurped by private ownership. Juggle llc owns this website and the content on it... even our intellectual property (our thoughts, our ideas). They can make their own rules. The freedom of speech only really applies in the sense of government and citizen.

It's like somebody's house. Just because you're allowed to say whatever you want on the street, it doesn't mean you have the right to barge in to someone's house and out-shout them. The owner of the house rules the roost. Way it goes.

However, some websites are way too heavy-handed with dishing out bans. As a result, they lose their fan-base, because like anything else, we can all decide to protest and create www.FuckJuggleintheAss.com if we wanted to and they couldn't do anything about it.

Since I have no friggin clue who was banned, I can't say whether the appropriate amount of force used or not used.

It was ccstate that was banned. I forgot what exactly he said but it was along the lines of "Julia doesn't do anything she's all talk that was just a nice message she wont ban me cause she's a weak bitch hahahaha BAN ME NOW PLEASE BITCH!"
Or something like that, and now I guess askbob is butthurt about his biggest d!ck sucker being gone for 2 weeks.

Idk what picture is being talked about but meh.
Without Royal there is a hole inside of me, I have no choice but to leave
I-am-a-panda
Posts: 15,380
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2/10/2011 1:26:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 1:25:07 PM, lovelife wrote:
Or something like that, and now I guess askbob is butthurt about his biggest d!ck sucker being gone for 2 weeks.


I find this comment extremely offensive and demand moderator action.
Pizza. I have enormous respect for Pizza.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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2/10/2011 4:07:01 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
This is Juggle's website so they can ban whoever they want regardless of reason. It's their property, not ours. If somebody started talking sh!t on my property, I have every right to kick them out. ccstate have every right to be banned. He was a complete an utter @sshole.
Open borders debate:
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InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/10/2011 4:10:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:07:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
This is Juggle's website so they can ban whoever they want regardless of reason. It's their property, not ours. If somebody started talking sh!t on my property, I have every right to kick them out. ccstate have every right to be banned. He was a complete an utter @sshole.

This.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/10/2011 4:10:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 11:24:31 AM, askbob wrote:
Ok so the moderators have done two things that I frankly disagree pretty heavily on. These are the same types of moderation issues that really fouled up the original DDO when Phil was on.

1. A member was banned for insulting the moderators
2. A member was asked to take profile pictures down because they made fun of another member.

Seriously? I was pretty sure that the new owners said they would be taking a hands off approach to moderation and that the community as a whole agreed that this was to be how things were done.

How is it that the moderators (who supposedly have no time due to creating upgrades) which I do see being done and the upgrades are wonderful. I appreciate them a lot. But the moderators claim to have no time or desire to remove multi-accounts and votebombers. But somehow have time to police the forums and ban members for what I think are pretty trivial comments.


1. Banning someone for insulting you is a little ridiculous. I mean seriously just ignore it and do your best to communicate your position on whatever situation is bothering someone.

2. I really think profile pictures aren't harming anyone. Either look at it or don't look at it. Moderators have no place asking people to take them down unless they are hardcore porn or physical threats.

Welcome to the real world, b!tch.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/10/2011 4:12:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 12:50:43 PM, Forum Moderator wrote:
To provide some clarity on the issues which are being discussed in this thread, here is some background information.

1) The member in question has a temporary ban in place and will have his account reinstated once the timeframe is up. He was not banned strictly for insulting the moderators. In reality, he requested to be banned, asked for action and we obliged.

2) The key point was the member was asked, politely, to take his images down. We did not remove them without notification or automatically.

The reality of the situation is, we would prefer to take a hands off approach to moderation and most of you seem to be ok with that, at least here in the forums. The problem is the sheer number of reports, emails, and messages asking for moderation of this item or this member contradicts the nature of taking a hands off approach.

To further clarify, we are not referring to reports on members vote bombing, but instead member vs member reports asking us to intervene on what appear to be issues founded on personal dislikes or disagreements between members. These types of reports & complaints tend to be the moderation issues that take up the majority of our time, aside from working on releases.

Moving forward, to ensure the most objective moderation of this site, we ask that you leverage the "Report" flags or the Feedback email as your two sole methods of reporting issues. These will ensure that the third parties review and moderate the issues instead of directly messaging moderators/owners of the site.

Why dont you hire a full time moderator or two from among the membership? Give them the power to delete posts, warn, and suspend users.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/10/2011 4:13:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:10:11 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:07:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
This is Juggle's website so they can ban whoever they want regardless of reason. It's their property, not ours. If somebody started talking sh!t on my property, I have every right to kick them out. ccstate have every right to be banned. He was a complete an utter @sshole.

This.

Aye.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:14:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:07:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
This is Juggle's website so they can ban whoever they want regardless of reason. It's their property, not ours. If somebody started talking sh!t on my property, I have every right to kick them out. ccstate have every right to be banned. He was a complete an utter @sshole.

Generally I find that the goal of business is to maximize profit. Someone maximizes profit by generating a high user base. Sites with large userbases make TOS that are reasonable and enforce them. Generally less strict policies tend to be favored.

For example if I logged into facebook and said "Zuckerberg is an idiot and he doesn't have the balls to ban me" Facebook would have every right to ban me under the grounds: "we own the site so we can do what we want". But do they ban me? No because they don't really care what the user write about them.

If I had any of the pictures that the mods asked to be removed on this site would they ban me or waste time asking that those photos be removed? No.

I can't imagine that Facebooks userbase would grow in that kind of an environment where the moderator was viewed as an authoritarian and catering to the whims of oversensitive people or spammers.

So while they have every right to do whatever they want to do, is it wise?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:15:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:10:33 PM, juvanya wrote:
At 2/10/2011 11:24:31 AM, askbob wrote:
Ok so the moderators have done two things that I frankly disagree pretty heavily on. These are the same types of moderation issues that really fouled up the original DDO when Phil was on.

1. A member was banned for insulting the moderators
2. A member was asked to take profile pictures down because they made fun of another member.

Seriously? I was pretty sure that the new owners said they would be taking a hands off approach to moderation and that the community as a whole agreed that this was to be how things were done.

How is it that the moderators (who supposedly have no time due to creating upgrades) which I do see being done and the upgrades are wonderful. I appreciate them a lot. But the moderators claim to have no time or desire to remove multi-accounts and votebombers. But somehow have time to police the forums and ban members for what I think are pretty trivial comments.


1. Banning someone for insulting you is a little ridiculous. I mean seriously just ignore it and do your best to communicate your position on whatever situation is bothering someone.

2. I really think profile pictures aren't harming anyone. Either look at it or don't look at it. Moderators have no place asking people to take them down unless they are hardcore porn or physical threats.

Welcome to the real world, b!tch.

http://www.isheepthings.com...
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:15:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:12:12 PM, juvanya wrote:
Why dont you hire a full time moderator or two from among the membership? Give them the power to delete posts, warn, and suspend users.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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2/10/2011 4:16:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
My side ? Juggle. With that said, this is between Juggle and askbob.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:16:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:15:10 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Actually, facebook has banned people for inappropriate photos. Just Saying.

Lol speaking from experience I presume?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/10/2011 4:16:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:16:26 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:15:10 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Actually, facebook has banned people for inappropriate photos. Just Saying.

Lol speaking from experience I presume?

No, I got banned because whiny muslims reported me.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:17:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:16:04 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
My side ? Juggle. With that said, this is between Juggle and askbob.

WOW that's a surprise considering you're in PMs with the same group of idiots that's openly against me and happens to respond to everything in a similar time pattern.

And it's not between Juggle and Askbob as the policies apply to the entire site.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:18:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:16:50 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:16:26 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:15:10 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Actually, facebook has banned people for inappropriate photos. Just Saying.

Lol speaking from experience I presume?

No, I got banned because whiny muslims reported me.

Was it a good feeling knowing that you had been banned/had your photo removed by the whims of oversensitive idiots?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
InsertNameHere
Posts: 15,699
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2/10/2011 4:19:31 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:18:26 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:16:50 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:16:26 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:15:10 PM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Actually, facebook has banned people for inappropriate photos. Just Saying.

Lol speaking from experience I presume?

No, I got banned because whiny muslims reported me.

Was it a good feeling knowing that you had been banned/had your photo removed by the whims of oversensitive idiots?

I don't really care. I care more about my creative writing pieces I lost when FB closed my account.
juvanya
Posts: 613
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2/10/2011 4:19:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:14:02 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:07:01 PM, darkkermit wrote:
This is Juggle's website so they can ban whoever they want regardless of reason. It's their property, not ours. If somebody started talking sh!t on my property, I have every right to kick them out. ccstate have every right to be banned. He was a complete an utter @sshole.

Generally I find that the goal of business is to maximize profit. Someone maximizes profit by generating a high user base. Sites with large userbases make TOS that are reasonable and enforce them. Generally less strict policies tend to be favored.

Exactly, that is why they ban disruptive members who chase people off their website.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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2/10/2011 4:21:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Exactly, that is why they ban disruptive members who chase people off their website.

Yes no one was being overly sensitive.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
vardas0antras
Posts: 983
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2/10/2011 4:22:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 2/10/2011 4:17:34 PM, askbob wrote:
At 2/10/2011 4:16:04 PM, vardas0antras wrote:
My side ? Juggle. With that said, this is between Juggle and askbob.

WOW that's a surprise considering you're in PMs with the same group of idiots that's openly against me and happens to respond to everything in a similar time pattern.

And it's not between Juggle and Askbob as the policies apply to the entire site.

What ? Yes, sometimes, I do post useless comments and created threads that you think is a waste of space. I respect your opinion on how one should act (don't agree with it, though). But when did I go against you ?!?

Seeing as the entire site is delighted with the new owners, it's your problem.
"When he awoke in a tomb three days later he would actually have believed that he rose from the dead" FREEDO about the resurrection of Jesus Christ