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Private Currency

lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/6/2011 7:30:55 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is there any legitimate reason for private currencies not to be legal?
The feds shut down the Liberty Dollar and seized its assets with nearly zero media coverage. A currency that used gold and silver (the only legal tender by the constitution) as a base. The only reason I can see them doing it is because the Federal Reserve can't compete with a private currency. There is no reason to do it that helps the common person is there? Anyone agree there would be rioting in the streets if people knew what was really going on.
Just google liberty dollar
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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3/6/2011 7:40:40 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:30:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Is there any legitimate reason for private currencies not to be legal?:

There's no good reason, and I don't see how that's any different than trading items. The legal reason is that the US gov't says you can't. The states used to use their own currency that was backed in gold. But the fed gov put an end to that. Now only their currency displays "legal tender" on it.

The feds shut down the Liberty Dollar and seized its assets with nearly zero media coverage. A currency that used gold and silver (the only legal tender by the constitution) as a base. The only reason I can see them doing it is because the Federal Reserve can't compete with a private currency. There is no reason to do it that helps the common person is there? Anyone agree there would be rioting in the streets if people knew what was really going on. Just google liberty dollar:

WOW.... You're right, I didn't even hear about this. That's crazy
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/6/2011 7:42:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:30:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Is there any legitimate reason for private currencies not to be legal?
The feds shut down the Liberty Dollar and seized its assets with nearly zero media coverage. A currency that used gold and silver (the only legal tender by the constitution) as a base. The only reason I can see them doing it is because the Federal Reserve can't compete with a private currency. There is no reason to do it that helps the common person is there? Anyone agree there would be rioting in the streets if people knew what was really going on.
Just google liberty dollar

How the hell did they do that without press?! o.O;
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
belle
Posts: 4,113
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3/6/2011 7:45:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
probably because they were seen as a bunch of fringe nutcases that no one would care about lol
evidently i only come to ddo to avoid doing homework...
annhasle
Posts: 6,657
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3/6/2011 7:49:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:45:19 PM, belle wrote:
probably because they were seen as a bunch of fringe nutcases that no one would care about lol

Lol, I was about to say, "Nah" and then I thought about it... So.... Yeah, probably. xD
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/6/2011 7:49:21 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:42:50 PM, annhasle wrote:
At 3/6/2011 7:30:55 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Is there any legitimate reason for private currencies not to be legal?
The feds shut down the Liberty Dollar and seized its assets with nearly zero media coverage. A currency that used gold and silver (the only legal tender by the constitution) as a base. The only reason I can see them doing it is because the Federal Reserve can't compete with a private currency. There is no reason to do it that helps the common person is there? Anyone agree there would be rioting in the streets if people knew what was really going on.
Just google liberty dollar

How the hell did they do that without press?! o.O;

I ask that about a lot of things.
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fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/6/2011 7:57:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:49:21 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/6/2011 7:42:50 PM, annhasle wrote:
How the hell did they do that without press?! o.O;

I ask that about a lot of things.

I actually think I heard about this before on free speech tv. They are the only television news outlet that refuses corporate or government sponsorship and they report and everything big that the other outlets leave out. I remember the first time I went to the channel it was discussing that the coca cola company was being tried for murder.
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fnord
wjmelements
Posts: 8,206
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3/6/2011 8:12:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
The United States Federal Reserve is participating in anticompetitive practices. Who knew?
in the blink of an eye you finally see the light
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/6/2011 8:32:36 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 8:12:29 PM, wjmelements wrote:
The United States Federal Reserve is participating in anticompetitive practices. Who knew?

Nah? It's an established monopoly participating in robbing-the-people-practices
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/6/2011 8:36:10 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/6/2011 7:45:19 PM, belle wrote:
probably because they were seen as a bunch of fringe nutcases that no one would care about lol

Ha look how many fringe nutcases make the news everyday, you'd think this would at least get a passing mention.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
JimProfit1
Posts: 28
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3/12/2011 3:38:39 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It's a terrible idea, that's why. The purpose of currency is to serve as a medium between the exchange of goods and services. The fact that someone could change the terms anytime they wanted by introducing a new form of currency is just patronizing and intolerable. It's why I can't stand internet forums. (Yes, including this one. But I refused to be silenced just because of it.)

I shouldn't have to rely on somebody's arbitrary opinion. Screw your opinion. Things should be objective. It's irrational to expect people to adhere to rules that can change on a whim, and be interpreted differently. I refuse to play that game, and I won't stop posting just because of it. All the same, thats how capital should work. This isn't some game. This is people's lives, people's work, and people's dreams, all that depend on a well adjusted, predictable, form of currency that isn't subject to dramatic changes. And then you want to proclaim people should have the right to deny some form of cash for another? No. That is worthy of lighting someone on fire and hanging them on a tree over. We should all use the same currency. It's bad enough different countries have different forms of currency.

Now, this is not to say I condone electric currency. I'm not in favor of V-chips, or even debit cards. I think they leave too much room to ruin people's lives by a simple thief, or a hacker, a misunderstanding, or a malevolent government worker... But that does not mean I support "private currency" either. Or even a finite and unadjustable currency such as gold which would become too centralized too quickly.

I support the cash base system. It works, it's practical, and it should apply everywhere, equally, for everybody. It's safe, simple, and respects your privacy. Cash is good no matter if your a legit business or less then legitimate.
Sieben
Posts: 2,736
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3/12/2011 2:39:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/12/2011 3:38:39 AM, JimProfit1 wrote:
It's a terrible idea, that's why. The purpose of currency is to serve as a medium between the exchange of goods and services. The fact that someone could change the terms anytime they wanted by introducing a new form of currency is just patronizing and intolerable.

The idea is that there's already an equilibrium exchange rate between all goods and services, and we just call whatever's most liquid "money". What you're saying implies price controls.

It's why I can't stand internet forums. (Yes, including this one. But I refused to be silenced just because of it.)

Oh yeah you were already banned for being a giant troll. That's so interesting. Welcome back.

I shouldn't have to rely on somebody's arbitrary opinion. Screw your opinion. Things should be objective.
I shouldn't have to rely on your arbitrary opinion. Screw your opinion. Things should be objective.

It's irrational to expect people to adhere to rules that can change on a whim, and be interpreted differently.
All rules can be changed on a whim. Nothing is written in the stars.

I refuse to play that game, and I won't stop posting just because of it.
You're like a 14 year old Spider Jerusalem.

All the same, thats how capital should work. This isn't some game. This is people's lives, people's work, and people's dreams, all that depend on a well adjusted, predictable, form of currency that isn't subject to dramatic changes.

Oh. Well you can always hedge risk out of the equation. No problems kk.

And then you want to proclaim people should have the right to deny some form of cash for another?
The idea is that people own themselves. The same reason I don't have to accept your money is the same reason I don't have to have sex with rapists.

No. That is worthy of lighting someone on fire and hanging them on a tree over. We should all use the same currency. It's bad enough different countries have different forms of currency.

Wait, so you support international genocide? Because people in different countries use different currencies when they trade with one another. All the time.

Now, this is not to say I condone electric currency. I'm not in favor of V-chips, or even debit cards. I think they leave too much room to ruin people's lives by a simple thief, or a hacker, a misunderstanding, or a malevolent government worker... But that does not mean I support "private currency" either. Or even a finite and unadjustable currency such as gold which would become too centralized too quickly.

Cool story bro.

I support the cash base system. It works, it's practical, and it should apply everywhere, equally, for everybody. It's safe, simple, and respects your privacy. Cash is good no matter if your a legit business or less then legitimate.

ATTACK THEM IF THEY DONT WANT TO USE UNITED STATES DOLLARS! RAAAAAAAAR

Nice job addressing the moral hazard of giving one entity an unlimited license to print money. Oh wait.

Hur hur
Things that are so interesting:

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lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/7/2011 12:45:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
"Bernard von NotHaus was convicted last month in federal court on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for his development of silver "Liberty Dollars." He faces up to 25 years in prison. Earlier this week the feds moved to seize about $7 million of precious metals from the operation as well."

counterfeit-To falsify, deceive, or defraud. A copy or imitation of something that is intended to be taken as authentic and genuine in order to deceive another.
The liberty dollar was none of those things.

http://mises.org...
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,294
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4/7/2011 12:51:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/12/2011 3:38:39 AM, JimProfit1 wrote:

I shouldn't have to rely on somebody's arbitrary opinion. Screw your opinion. Things should be objective. It's irrational to expect people to adhere to rules that can change on a whim, and be interpreted differently. I refuse to play that game, and I won't stop posting just because of it. All the same, thats how capital should work.

The fact is that the value of the US dollar is NOT objective. The value is dependent on the arbitrary policies of the US treasury.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 6:10:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
One big reason is them ebil labor unions that cried how unfair it is that companies would pay their employees with their own private currency that had no value whatsoever and could only be used to buy anything except in the company's store. Your employer then not only dictated your 'pay,' but dictated what you could buy with what 'pay' they paid you.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 6:16:46 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 12:45:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
"Bernard von NotHaus was convicted last month in federal court on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for his development of silver "Liberty Dollars." He faces up to 25 years in prison. Earlier this week the feds moved to seize about $7 million of precious metals from the operation as well."

counterfeit-To falsify, deceive, or defraud. A copy or imitation of something that is intended to be taken as authentic and genuine in order to deceive another.
The liberty dollar was none of those things.

http://mises.org...

And what that article completely misses is the fact that NotHaus' "Liberty" currency (all coins) was intentionally made to resemble actual U.S. currency and subsituted in for such. That's what the gold and silver was used for, to counterfeit real U.S. gold and silver coins.

http://en.wikipedia.org...
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 6:18:59 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 12:51:11 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 3/12/2011 3:38:39 AM, JimProfit1 wrote:

I shouldn't have to rely on somebody's arbitrary opinion. Screw your opinion. Things should be objective. It's irrational to expect people to adhere to rules that can change on a whim, and be interpreted differently. I refuse to play that game, and I won't stop posting just because of it. All the same, thats how capital should work.

The fact is that the value of the US dollar is NOT objective. The value is dependent on the arbitrary policies of the US treasury.

That's a gross oversimplification. The U.S. treasury can attempt to manipulate the value, but it is not the sole determiner of the value of U.S. currency. U.S. currency is traded on a global market, which also affects its value, as does the import of goods into the U.S. and export of U.S. goods to other countries -- that is both influenced by and influences back the value of U.S. currency as well.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/7/2011 6:48:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:16:46 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/7/2011 12:45:44 PM, lewis20 wrote:
"Bernard von NotHaus was convicted last month in federal court on conspiracy and counterfeiting charges for his development of silver "Liberty Dollars." He faces up to 25 years in prison. Earlier this week the feds moved to seize about $7 million of precious metals from the operation as well."

counterfeit-To falsify, deceive, or defraud. A copy or imitation of something that is intended to be taken as authentic and genuine in order to deceive another.
The liberty dollar was none of those things.

http://mises.org...

And what that article completely misses is the fact that NotHaus' "Liberty" currency (all coins) was intentionally made to resemble actual U.S. currency and subsituted in for such. That's what the gold and silver was used for, to counterfeit real U.S. gold and silver coins.

http://en.wikipedia.org...

What are you talking about, just look at the coins they in no way resemble any of the actual U.S. coins and in no way could ever possibly be confused with a U.S. coin. You obviously read nothing in the article and nothing what I said.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/7/2011 6:56:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:10:23 PM, PervRat wrote:
One big reason is them ebil labor unions that cried how unfair it is that companies would pay their employees with their own private currency that had no value whatsoever and could only be used to buy anything except in the company's store. Your employer then not only dictated your 'pay,' but dictated what you could buy with what 'pay' they paid you.

You are way off base, we are talking about a private voluntary currency backed by silver and gold. You on the other hand are babbling about some unsupported, irrelevant bs which has no bearing or meaning to anything at all being said in this thread, I'll let James Downey take it from here.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 7:41:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:48:19 PM, lewis20 wrote:
What are you talking about, just look at the coins they in no way resemble any of the actual U.S. coins and in no way could ever possibly be confused with a U.S. coin. You obviously read nothing in the article and nothing what I said.

I read that article and what you said, questioned it and did a google search. A grand jury found the man guilty. You read only the article, rejected all others as well as the judgment of the jury.

What you deem "obvious" is not what is true; given that, I hope you find a lot of excuses to never serve on a jury.
lewis20
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4/7/2011 7:46:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:41:02 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:48:19 PM, lewis20 wrote:
What are you talking about, just look at the coins they in no way resemble any of the actual U.S. coins and in no way could ever possibly be confused with a U.S. coin. You obviously read nothing in the article and nothing what I said.

I read that article and what you said, questioned it and did a google search. A grand jury found the man guilty. You read only the article, rejected all others as well as the judgment of the jury.

What you deem "obvious" is not what is true; given that, I hope you find a lot of excuses to never serve on a jury.

The article said a grand jury found him guilty. good job finding the guy on wikipedia. Nothing you said added anything to the discussion.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
PervRat
Posts: 963
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4/7/2011 7:49:06 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 6:56:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:10:23 PM, PervRat wrote:
You are way off base, we are talking about a private voluntary currency backed by silver and gold. You on the other hand are babbling about some unsupported, irrelevant bs which has no bearing or meaning to anything at all being said in this thread, I'll let James Downey take it from here.

I won't even bother watching that given your ongoing non-truths, established bad sources, refusal to read or reason and your namecalling.

The OP was about private currency. I gave you the exact big issue that ended 'private currency' in the 19th century, and you ignore it with flimsy false excuses about the reason private currency was put to an end as being 'unsupported, irrelevant bs' to the topic of why private currency is illegal.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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4/7/2011 7:56:51 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 4/7/2011 7:49:06 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:56:20 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 4/7/2011 6:10:23 PM, PervRat wrote:
You are way off base, we are talking about a private voluntary currency backed by silver and gold. You on the other hand are babbling about some unsupported, irrelevant bs which has no bearing or meaning to anything at all being said in this thread, I'll let James Downey take it from here.

I won't even bother watching that given your ongoing non-truths, established bad sources, refusal to read or reason and your namecalling.

Name one non-truth or bad source. you posted no sources to read.

The OP was about private currency. I gave you the exact big issue that ended 'private currency' in the 19th century, and you ignore it with flimsy false excuses about the reason private currency was put to an end as being 'unsupported, irrelevant bs' to the topic of why private currency is illegal.

I never made a claim as to why private currency was put to an end.

The real issue is that private currency wouldn't be an issue if the Govt hadn't used its monopoly on money to devalue the dollar 95% in the illegal tax that is inflation.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler