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socialpinko
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3/15/2011 9:12:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
How should the federal deficit be dealt with(U.S.)?
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
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: I disagree.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Abolishing the federal government completely.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Grape
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3/15/2011 9:29:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Abolishing the federal government completely.

A little faster on the draw than me, LaissezFaire.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.
Open borders debate:
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Grape
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3/15/2011 9:34:03 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
^All of which could easily be solved by

At 3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Abolishing the federal government completely.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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3/15/2011 9:37:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:34:03 PM, Grape wrote:
^All of which could easily be solved by

At 3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Abolishing the federal government completely.

You should call Obama and ask him to process your request. I'm sure he won't have a problem.
kfc
Grape
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3/15/2011 9:39:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:37:28 PM, Koopin wrote:

You should call Obama and ask him to process your request. I'm sure he won't have a problem.

You may be surprised to discover that LF and I have some slight political disagreements with the president that will be difficult to work out.
LaissezFaire
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3/15/2011 9:39:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:37:28 PM, Koopin wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:34:03 PM, Grape wrote:
^All of which could easily be solved by

At 3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Abolishing the federal government completely.

You should call Obama and ask him to process your request. I'm sure he won't have a problem.

I tried, but apparently the President can't just abolish the entire government whenever he wants.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
annhasle
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3/15/2011 9:40:20 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:28:44 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
Abolishing the federal government completely.
I'm not back. This idiot just upset me which made me stop lurking.
socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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3/15/2011 9:46:34 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org...
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
LaissezFaire
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3/15/2011 9:48:15 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Also not true.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Koopin
Posts: 12,090
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3/15/2011 9:49:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

And Obama isn't eh?
I agree though, the military needs to come home. Not just in the middle east.
kfc
socialpinko
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3/15/2011 10:00:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:46:34 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org...

I am only referring to what income tax is being spent on, not trust funds.
http://www.warresisters.org...
: At 9/29/2014 10:55:59 AM, imabench wrote:
: : At 9/29/2014 9:43:46 AM, kbub wrote:
: :
: : DDO should discredit support of sexual violence at any time and in every way.
:
: I disagree.
LaissezFaire
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3/15/2011 10:03:48 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:00:57 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:46:34 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org...

I am only referring to what income tax is being spent on, not trust funds.
http://www.warresisters.org...

That's just silly. There's no connection between SS/Medicare taxes and the the spending on those programs, or the income tax and everything else. Everything is spent on everything.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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3/15/2011 10:21:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:12:47 PM, socialpinko wrote:
How should the federal deficit be dealt with(U.S.)?

Options include (but are not limited to):

1. Fiat. Government says, "Oh, look! We don't owe anyone any money anymore, and we'll jail people who don't like that." Con: Dollar tanks because no-one will trust us anymore.

2. Ignore it, and hope it goes away. Post-Andrew Jackson but pre-Depression strategy. Con: Didn't work too well, encouraged political rallies.

3. Fix spending to an upwards log curve, and hope the debt goes away. Current strategy. Con: Doesn't seem to be helping, pays for presidential museums.

4. World conquest. Plunder everybody, and make them pay taxes to pay for the debt AND the cost of conquering them. Con: Might annoy our friends and allies.

5. Incorporate the Federal Government and take the stock public. Con: Watch Gates, Jobs, Trump, Soros, and a bunch of people from Saudi Arabia and China become the chairmen of America Inc.

6. Raise taxes and cut spending, especially government entitlement programs, congressional discretionary spending, and anything that, you know, involves money. Con: Political suicide.

7. Send the government on an unpaid vacation. To Arlington. Con: Rather messy, not family rated.

8. Surreptitiously print North Korean money and pay off the debt with that. Con: Lots of pictures of Saint Kim.

9: Form 13,237 dummy corporations and false-front holding companies to purchase the debt with freshly printed dollar bills, and then gift the bonds back to the government. Con: Rampant inflation.

10: Turn the agricultural land of the US to coke and opium production. Charge export tariffs. Con: Lots of angry people in Columbia and Afghanistan.

Here are ten options. All have unwanted side-effects. All are technically feasible.

How would you like to proceed?
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I'm going to be original here... Abolish the federal government!!

No, but seriously, there's plenty of community investment programs that the federal government doesn't need to be dealing with, and there's of course plenty of military weapons programs that can be shut down, along with downsizing procurement and closing down a good number of foreign military bases.

Allow generic drugs on the market and decrease the size and authority of the FDA, which will help to address rising Medicare costs. Also, reform SS by raising the retirement age incrementally, or some other cost containment measure. Legalize and regulate some of the more acceptable and soft drugs and abolish the DEA, which will bring in more revenue along with decreasing spending.

Significantly decrease farm, oil, and other subsidies that don't serve much purpose other than to further enrich wealthy corporations, and apply that same principle to foreign aid that is given to richer nations such as Israel.

End stupid crap such as earmarks and whatnot.

Substantially reform the tax-code by eliminating exemptions/deductions while raising income taxes.

Wait for the economy to turn around, which will help..
LaissezFaire
Posts: 2,050
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3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
Chrysippus
Posts: 2,173
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3/15/2011 10:32:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.

Or any of mine, except 6.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
LaissezFaire
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3/15/2011 10:33:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:32:12 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.

Or any of mine, except 6.

I think something like 9 is the current plan.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/15/2011 10:36:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Could try inflating our way out, that hasn't been done yet...
They should not try to bring home the 30,000 troops we have protecting South Korea.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Chrysippus
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3/15/2011 10:39:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:33:50 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:32:12 PM, Chrysippus wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.

Or any of mine, except 6.

I think something like 9 is the current plan.

I wish it were; that would at least be a proactive (if unethical) solution. Our current tack is to spend our way out of debt, option 3. Makes a lot of sense, if you abandoned logic in third grade.
Cavete mea inexorabilis legiones mimus!
darkkermit
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3/15/2011 10:40:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 9:46:34 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org...

I'll believe it once I see it. It just seems to me that most people are firmly against cutting programs (yet simultaneously want the deficit reduced). Basically, nobody wants to deal with the problem of economic scarcity. A bunch of my facebook friends were against the cutting of the PBS and NPR public funding, which should absolutely be cut, since if these programs are beneficial they should be able to compete in the free market like everything else, and these programs create an imbalance in the market for ideas. I felt like commenting about it, but didn't really feel like it was worth arguing over.

Barack Obama practically dodged the issue of what programs he wanted to cut.
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Grape
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3/15/2011 10:45:08 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
I'm going to be original here... Abolish the federal government!!

No, but seriously, there's plenty of community investment programs that the federal government doesn't need to be dealing with, and there's of course plenty of military weapons programs that can be shut down, along with downsizing procurement and closing down a good number of foreign military bases.

Allow generic drugs on the market and decrease the size and authority of the FDA, which will help to address rising Medicare costs. Also, reform SS by raising the retirement age incrementally, or some other cost containment measure. Legalize and regulate some of the more acceptable and soft drugs and abolish the DEA, which will bring in more revenue along with decreasing spending.

Significantly decrease farm, oil, and other subsidies that don't serve much purpose other than to further enrich wealthy corporations, and apply that same principle to foreign aid that is given to richer nations such as Israel.

End stupid crap such as earmarks and whatnot.

Substantially reform the tax-code by eliminating exemptions/deductions while raising income taxes.

Wait for the economy to turn around, which will help..

Almost all of your suggests are politically impossible. The American electorate does not care about long term consequences if they are even aware of them. More than half of those policies would be political suicide. No one is going to ruin their career attempting to get something done that can never be done.

Our suggestion of abolishing the government is slightly tongue in cheek because it's not an immediate option, but it's just as likely to happen as implementing policies that would actually have some chance of working.
lewis20
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3/15/2011 10:50:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:40:37 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:46:34 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:43:22 PM, socialpinko wrote:
At 3/15/2011 9:30:32 PM, darkkermit wrote:
Keep it coming until we are so f8cked over it can't be ignored. See a politician only needs to worry about winning the election. In order to do that, he/she must promise short term goals that seem like a good idea, but will ruin people in the long run. This will make the people happy. If a politician tries to cut programs, then the people will be unhappy since they want these programs. And if the future generation gets upset that they were f8cked over, it doesn't matter since the politician will be out of office by then.

I agree. And part of the problem is that conservatives are railing against social programs while completely ignoring the military and our two wars which encompass over half of the federal budget. At the same time liberals aren't doing much of anything.

Not quite. http://en.wikipedia.org...

I'll believe it once I see it. It just seems to me that most people are firmly against cutting programs (yet simultaneously want the deficit reduced). Basically, nobody wants to deal with the problem of economic scarcity. A bunch of my facebook friends were against the cutting of the PBS and NPR public funding, which should absolutely be cut, since if these programs are beneficial they should be able to compete in the free market like everything else, and these programs create an imbalance in the market for ideas. I felt like commenting about it, but didn't really feel like it was worth arguing over.

Barack Obama practically dodged the issue of what programs he wanted to cut.

You are exactly right there are a bunch of my friends in those groups too, that and planned parenthood which can more than support itself without government help.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/15/2011 10:55:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:45:08 PM, Grape wrote:

Almost all of your suggests are politically impossible. The American electorate does not care about long term consequences if they are even aware of them. More than half of those policies would be political suicide. No one is going to ruin their career attempting to get something done that can never be done.

Like abolishing the federal government?

Our suggestion of abolishing the government is slightly tongue in cheek because it's not an immediate option, but it's just as likely to happen as implementing policies that would actually have some chance of working.

My options aren't necessarily immediate either, nor are many of them politically impossible, although any reform is tough under the current political climate. Many community investment programs are already undergoing the hatchet, while some military weapons programs have already been shut down. However, drawing in the overall Pentagon budget is definitely a long-term goal. Marijuana is increasingly losing its stigma, and California's near accomplishment of legalization shows that it's only a matter of time for that to happen. Farm and oil subsidies are also currently under attack in Congress, and earmarks have already been abolished.

Medicare and SS will be tough, and going against pharmaceutical giants and Israel might be impossible for a while. Lastly, reforming the tax-code is something that can be done with a president who isn't an incompetent fool.

All of these initiatives are likely going to take time, but they're far more realistic and viable than abolishing the federal government altogether, so attacking my proposals is a bit ridiculous given where you're coming from.
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/15/2011 10:56:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.

What are you going to do, grab an air-soft gun and start shooting at the Pentagon headquarters until the federal government collapses under your onslaught?
TheAtheistAllegiance
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3/15/2011 10:58:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:36:04 PM, lewis20 wrote:
Could try inflating our way out, that hasn't been done yet...
They should not try to bring home the 30,000 troops we have protecting South Korea.

South Korea has a very capable, large, and technologically advanced military. Plus, our 30K troops would only serve as a speed bump if North Korea decided to invade.
darkkermit
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3/15/2011 11:01:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:45:08 PM, Grape wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
I'm going to be original here... Abolish the federal government!!

No, but seriously, there's plenty of community investment programs that the federal government doesn't need to be dealing with, and there's of course plenty of military weapons programs that can be shut down, along with downsizing procurement and closing down a good number of foreign military bases.

Allow generic drugs on the market and decrease the size and authority of the FDA, which will help to address rising Medicare costs. Also, reform SS by raising the retirement age incrementally, or some other cost containment measure. Legalize and regulate some of the more acceptable and soft drugs and abolish the DEA, which will bring in more revenue along with decreasing spending.

Significantly decrease farm, oil, and other subsidies that don't serve much purpose other than to further enrich wealthy corporations, and apply that same principle to foreign aid that is given to richer nations such as Israel.

End stupid crap such as earmarks and whatnot.

Substantially reform the tax-code by eliminating exemptions/deductions while raising income taxes.

Wait for the economy to turn around, which will help..

Almost all of your suggests are politically impossible. The American electorate does not care about long term consequences if they are even aware of them. More than half of those policies would be political suicide. No one is going to ruin their career attempting to get something done that can never be done.


Maybe I'm being naive, but it could be possible that one day the people will wake up and realize that certain programs need to be cut. The government cannot keep deficit spending forever. Eventually, the policy will have to change. Ron Paul already has strong support. It is possible that he could become president in 2012.
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LaissezFaire
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3/15/2011 11:01:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/15/2011 10:56:49 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:27:00 PM, LaissezFaire wrote:
At 3/15/2011 10:24:38 PM, TheAtheistAllegiance wrote:
Politicians should just behave responsibly!
Good luck with that. There's a better chance of my suggestion happening.

What are you going to do, grab an air-soft gun and start shooting at the Pentagon headquarters until the federal government collapses under your onslaught?

My current plan is to leave. Hopefully, as the economy completely collapses, the US will break apart through secession (assuming the federal government will be too weak and broke to stop that). While I wish you guys the best of luck with that transition, I don't plan on being there to watch.
Should we subsidize education?
http://www.debate.org...

http://mises.org...

http://lewrockwell.com...

http://antiwar.com...

: At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote:
: i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now.