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Democratic Socialism

socialpinko
Posts: 10,458
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3/20/2011 2:52:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
What are everyone's thought on this site about democratic socialism. I knonw there are a lot of libertarians and anarchists so this is most likely going to get completely ripped apart.
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: I disagree.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/20/2011 5:27:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Democracy sucks, socialism sucks.

^_^
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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3/20/2011 7:43:58 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/20/2011 5:27:58 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Democracy sucks, socialism sucks.

^_^

What is wrong with mob rule or tribute payments to the poor?
feverish
Posts: 2,716
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3/24/2011 5:09:12 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
It may have its flaws but I believe that if corruption is minimised or eliminated, then democratic socialism is far superior to any realistic alternative I've seen proposed.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/24/2011 11:40:51 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Most people are far too dumb, I don't want people around me making decisions for/that effect me on the government level.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Zetsubou
Posts: 4,933
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3/26/2011 7:48:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
My thought thoughts democracy:
At 3/24/2011 11:40:51 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Most people are far too dumb, I don't want people around me making decisions for/that effect me on the government level.

As for socialism... meme vieux, meme vieux.
'sup DDO -- july 2013
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/27/2011 11:54:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/24/2011 11:40:51 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Most people are far too dumb, I don't want people around me making decisions for/that effect me on the government level.

Hi there, my name is Libertarian Socialism.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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3/28/2011 12:41:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:37:05 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Socialism and communism both sound great in theory, but neither can work in practice. Socialism seems to kill incentive.

Can you give me an example of where they are of have been in practice in which incentive can can be verifiably seen to be diminished? After-all, it is practice, not theory, you make this remark upon. Surely your remark isn't made out of your own theory. Or could it?
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
J.Kenyon
Posts: 4,194
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3/28/2011 12:41:34 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:37:05 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Socialism and communism both sound great in theory, but neither can work in practice. Socialism seems to kill incentive.

Actually, they both sound pretty terrible in theory, the latter especially :/
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 12:46:52 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/27/2011 11:54:26 PM, FREEDO wrote:
At 3/24/2011 11:40:51 AM, lewis20 wrote:
Most people are far too dumb, I don't want people around me making decisions for/that effect me on the government level.

Hi there, my name is Libertarian Socialism.

You can sign that onto your documents over my dead body.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:37:05 AM, InsertNameHere wrote:
Socialism and communism both sound great in theory, but neither can work in practice. Socialism seems to kill incentive.

That's never been shown to be true. Laissez-faire, on the other hand, has been shown to be disastrous. Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China continuously expand class dichotomies, create and continuously swell the number of impoverished people, and create a society of uberprivileged elites with virtually unchecked power over working-class people.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 2:17:29 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Great fiction. Now can you get these 70,000 page Federal Registers they throw on me every year off of me so we can look for these "lax regulations?"

Just ignore the Chinese though, they won't even be allowed to read your words, the regulations say so.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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3/28/2011 10:46:19 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM, PervRat wrote:
Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China

You are joking, right?
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 12:47:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 10:46:19 AM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM, PervRat wrote:
Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China

You are joking, right?

Joking in regards to what?

China has forced unpaid labor from its laogai political prisoner "reform through labor" camps and has little or no human rights, worker safety or environmental protections. What about that is amusing to you?
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,211
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3/28/2011 1:23:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
I really don't think Pervrat has any idea the regulations on starting a small business in the USA. Or China for that matter.

What garbage have you been reading?
Fabian_CH
Posts: 232
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3/28/2011 1:41:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:47:44 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:46:19 AM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM, PervRat wrote:
Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China

You are joking, right?

Joking in regards to what?

Joking in regards to what you said? Lax regulations? You must be kidding.

China has forced unpaid labor from its laogai political prisoner "reform through labor" camps and has little or no human rights, worker safety or environmental protections. What about that is amusing to you?

Oh, forced labor isn't regulation? Sacrificing human beings for the geater good of the government is capitalist? Interesting idea.
"What are we doing? Do we want to feed a starved humanity in order to let it live? Or do we want to strangle its life in order to feed it?"
- Andrei Taganov, We The Living (Ayn Rand)
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 2:01:39 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 12:47:44 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:46:19 AM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM, PervRat wrote:
Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China

You are joking, right?

Joking in regards to what?

China has forced unpaid labor from its laogai political prisoner "reform through labor" camps
That's a REGULATION. Not lax regulation. To force someone to labor is to be very very regulative indeed.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 3:17:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 1:23:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I really don't think Pervrat has any idea the regulations on starting a small business in the USA. Or China for that matter.

What garbage have you been reading?

I am fairly confident I have much greater experience than you do. Regulations and safeguards put in place to stop disastrous economic anarchy such as laws against slavery, laws to curb irresponsible conduct of banks and tight regulations over energy companies have produced the wanton profiteering off slavery, the toppling of bank after bank, and put our nation's power network in the vulnerable state it is (and was directly responsible for the artificial power shortage in California about a decade ago conducted by Enron after California state legislators cowtowed to Enron and undid energy regulations).

What garbage are you smoking?
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 3:19:49 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 1:41:18 PM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 3/28/2011 12:47:44 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 10:46:19 AM, Fabian_CH wrote:
At 3/28/2011 2:02:35 AM, PervRat wrote:
Lax regulations in the United States, even laxer in Mexico, and laxest of all in China

You are joking, right?

Joking in regards to what?

Joking in regards to what you said? Lax regulations? You must be kidding.

If you think I am kidding, I do not know what country or reality you exist in, but it is certainly not the nation of the United States nor the reality of today.

China has forced unpaid labor from its laogai political prisoner "reform through labor" camps and has little or no human rights, worker safety or environmental protections. What about that is amusing to you?

Oh, forced labor isn't regulation? Sacrificing human beings for the geater good of the government is capitalist? Interesting idea.

Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 3:20:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:17:54 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 1:23:53 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
I really don't think Pervrat has any idea the regulations on starting a small business in the USA. Or China for that matter.

What garbage have you been reading?

I am fairly confident I have much greater experience than you do.

Please enlighten us.
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 3:22:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
Creating slavery is government regulation.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 3:22:54 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 2:01:39 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
That's a REGULATION. Not lax regulation. To force someone to labor is to be very very regulative indeed.

Patently false. Abolishing slavery is regulating; allowing industrialists to enslave people for profit is unregulated capitalism.

You clearly have no understanding of the march of regulation that you are fighting so hard against. Go back and read American history, the history of slavery and the massive resistance against government instilling "unfair" regulations to abolish slavery ... the vehement opposition, in fact, led to the bloodiest war the United States has ever fought: the U.S. civil war.

It is tragic to me that you and obviously others on this thread have no concept whatsoever the history of slavery and the force of good governance it took to finally put an end to it.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 3:24:28 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:22:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
Creating slavery is government regulation.

Regulation inhibits immoral, unethical or unsafe behavior. Lack of regulation allows any behavior, no matter how immoral, unethical or unsafe.

You not only fail to understand history, such as the fight to abolish slavery, you fail to comprehend definitions for English words. Please seek a basic education.
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 3:34:22 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:22:54 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 2:01:39 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
That's a REGULATION. Not lax regulation. To force someone to labor is to be very very regulative indeed.

Patently false. Abolishing slavery is regulating; allowing industrialists to enslave people for profit is unregulated capitalism.
STOP CONSTRUCTING STRAW MEN OR GTFO OFF A SITE THAT EXPECTS RATIONAL DEBATE.


You clearly have no understanding of the march of regulation that you are fighting so hard against. Go back and read American history, the history of slavery and the massive resistance against government instilling "unfair" regulations to abolish slavery
Irrelevant. What is relevant is logical deduction from principle, not the history of irrational people

Regulation inhibits immoral, unethical or unsafe behavior.
Regulation inhibits whatever the **** someone wants to inhibit, neither safety nor any notion of morality being a limit on the possibilities.

Lack of regulation allows any behavior, no matter how immoral, unethical or unsafe.
That would be a contradiction, it is impossible to allow any behavior. The question is whether behavior that affects nonconsenting parties is allowed If not, laissez faire prevails, if so, whoever is permitted to do it is the regulator-- they regulate the life of the nonconsenting party.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
lewis20
Posts: 5,093
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3/28/2011 3:35:32 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:24:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:22:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
Creating slavery is government regulation.

Regulation inhibits immoral, unethical or unsafe behavior. Lack of regulation allows any behavior, no matter how immoral, unethical or unsafe.

You not only fail to understand history, such as the fight to abolish slavery, you fail to comprehend definitions for English words. Please seek a basic education.

Who should seek a basic education?
"If you are a racist I will attack you with the north"- Abraham Lincoln

"Do not wear clothing woven of two kinds of material" - Leviticus 19 19

"War is a racket" - Smedley Butler
Ragnar_Rahl
Posts: 19,297
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3/28/2011 3:37:57 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:35:32 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:24:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:22:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
Creating slavery is government regulation.

Regulation inhibits immoral, unethical or unsafe behavior. Lack of regulation allows any behavior, no matter how immoral, unethical or unsafe.

You not only fail to understand history, such as the fight to abolish slavery, you fail to comprehend definitions for English words. Please seek a basic education.

Who should seek a basic education?
Anyone who doesn't agree that Capitalism is to be defined by the socialists, as are all other words.
It came to be at its height. It was commanded to command. It was a capital before its first stone was laid. It was a monument to the spirit of man.
PervRat
Posts: 963
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3/28/2011 3:56:24 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 3/28/2011 3:37:57 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:35:32 PM, lewis20 wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:24:28 PM, PervRat wrote:
At 3/28/2011 3:22:07 PM, Ragnar_Rahl wrote:
Abolishing slavery is government regulation. What the heck are you smoking?
Creating slavery is government regulation.

Regulation inhibits immoral, unethical or unsafe behavior. Lack of regulation allows any behavior, no matter how immoral, unethical or unsafe.

You not only fail to understand history, such as the fight to abolish slavery, you fail to comprehend definitions for English words. Please seek a basic education.

Who should seek a basic education?
Anyone who doesn't agree that Capitalism is to be defined by the socialists, as are all other words.

Anyone who does not base their understandings on the real effects.

Deregulation: Reagan in air traffic controllers and other industries. Effect: sharp rise in serious accidents in deregulated industries, sharp rise in the ranks of the workng poor

Deregulation: Dubya and the Republican majority early in his presidency on financial corporations. Results: Financial institutions collapsed like dominoes as their executives took advantage of deregulation they got by bribing Bush and Congress, one of the biggest direct causes of the current economic crisis.

What do you call someone, like yourself, who keeps repeating the same error, in this case supporting deregulation, and yet expect different results?