Theories of Value
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5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM Posted: 6 years ago Does anyone have any suggested reading on the different theories of value. Namely the labor and subjective theories of value?
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5/18/2011 7:41:22 PM Posted: 6 years ago http://mises.org...
Should we subsidize education? http://www.debate.org... http://mises.org... http://lewrockwell.com... http://antiwar.com... : At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote: : i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now. |
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5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: Labor Theory: http://www.mutualist.org... "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/18/2011 10:15:45 PM Posted: 6 years ago This.
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5/18/2011 10:24:57 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: Would you like some Aristotelian chemistry, or some Young-Earth Creationism to go with your phlogiston theory of pricing? |
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5/18/2011 10:45:03 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 10:24:57 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: He did ask for info on the labor theory of value. That said, the labor theory is so obviously false I don't see how people are ideologically blind enough not to see it. The idea of value being anything but subjective makes little sense. |
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5/18/2011 10:49:25 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 10:45:03 PM, Grape wrote:At 5/18/2011 10:24:57 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: I think most people are just being lazy and they mean labor theory of price, not value. It's still wrong though. |
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5/18/2011 11:14:08 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: the Austrians are posing bullcrap. Things are valued by the supply and demand. It doesn't get any easier. Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it. kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host! Me -haha you apparently don't know my history Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant! Me - i was being completely sarcastic Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos |
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5/18/2011 11:16:25 PM Posted: 6 years ago If no-one don't wants it, you gots no value.
Crying about how much the Trump wall is going to cost is like a heroin addict complaining about how much the needles cost. |
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5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:16:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote: But why not when it took so much effort to make. If a man spends his entire lifetime pooping in the same place to produce a mountain of shitt, shouldn't the mountain of shitt be worth the cost of the food and the mans time and effort? Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it. kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host! Me -haha you apparently don't know my history Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant! Me - i was being completely sarcastic Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos |
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5/18/2011 11:21:36 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:16:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote: Only humans put a value into energy/matter conversions. Crying about how much the Trump wall is going to cost is like a heroin addict complaining about how much the needles cost. |
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5/18/2011 11:25:58 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:14:08 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: You are aware that Austrians agree with that, right? |
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5/18/2011 11:27:55 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:14:08 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: Supply and demand determine price not value. |
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5/18/2011 11:29:13 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:27:55 PM, djsherin wrote: Price is societal value Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it. kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host! Me -haha you apparently don't know my history Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant! Me - i was being completely sarcastic Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos |
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5/18/2011 11:41:25 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:29:13 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:27:55 PM, djsherin wrote: Loosely speaking, I would agree. |
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5/18/2011 11:43:24 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:29:13 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:27:55 PM, djsherin wrote: And that's determined by supply and demand, which are determined by what exactly? What else but the aggregates of the subjective evaluations of many different individuals? A demand curve for, say, cars, is determined by the subjective value individuals place on a car vs. whatever else they could buy with that money. Some value the car much more than whatever other goods they could get--they'd be the top left part of the demand curve. And others don't really care much about cars, and would only give up a small amount of other goods to get one--they'd be the bottom right part of the curve. What exactly the demand curve for a thing looks like is determined by how many individuals value that thing at the different levels. A supply curve is determined a similar way--but by the subjective values of producers and laborers rather than consumers. There's already a word for 'societal value' as you call it--price. It's silly to call price value, rather than the individual values that cause the price. Should we subsidize education? http://www.debate.org... http://mises.org... http://lewrockwell.com... http://antiwar.com... : At 6/22/2011 6:57:23 PM, el-badgero wrote: : i didn't like [Obama]. he was the only black dude in moneygall yet he claimed to be home. obvious liar is obvious liar. i bet him and bin laden are bumfvcking right now. |
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5/18/2011 11:57:20 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:25:58 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:14:08 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: In fact, it was Carl Menger and Eugen von Bohm-Bawerk who pioneered marginal utility -__- |
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5/19/2011 12:12:57 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:43:24 PM, LaissezFaire wrote: Price is average value average (AKA societal) Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it. kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host! Me -haha you apparently don't know my history Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant! Me - i was being completely sarcastic Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos |
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5/19/2011 12:41:34 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:57:20 PM, J.Kenyon wrote: Wieser coined the term. "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/19/2011 3:08:48 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:16:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote: Hell no. As you said supply and demand. Sure the cost to supply the mountain was high, but there isn't any demand. |
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5/19/2011 10:45:00 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 10:24:57 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: "It is the cost of production which must ultimately regulate the price of commodities, and not, as has been so often said, the proportion between the supply and demand: the proportion between the supply and demand may, indeed, for a time, affect the market value of a commodity, until it is supplied in a greater or less abundance, according as the demand may have increased or diminished; but this effect will be only of temporary duration." - David Ricardo "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/19/2011 11:02:53 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 10:45:00 AM, Reasoning wrote: Defeat the mountain of shitt example captain quotation Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it. kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host! Me -haha you apparently don't know my history Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant! Me - i was being completely sarcastic Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos |
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5/19/2011 11:40:00 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 11:02:53 AM, askbob wrote: What? "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/19/2011 11:46:31 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:16:25 PM, Greyparrot wrote: He can sell it as fertilizer. "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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5/19/2011 11:51:54 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 11:40:00 AM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/19/2011 11:02:53 AM, askbob wrote: You're quote suggests that the mountain of pooh example should be worth a lot of money (since the "cost of production" was great). "Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender" |
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5/19/2011 11:53:38 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 10:45:00 AM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 10:24:57 PM, J.Kenyon wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:50:37 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 7:39:39 PM, socialpinko wrote: Price tends towards cost in the long run, but the long run is a simply a tool that rarely is achieved. Besides, costs aren't some exogenous thing. It is ultimately the prices for final goods that determine costs. |
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5/19/2011 11:59:24 AM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote: "A commodity is a good for which there is demand."[1] Assuming there is no demand for a mountain of shitt then it is not a commodity and therefore its exchange value is not determined by the labor theory. It's important to note, as well, that the labor theory deals with the long run and not with temporary fluctuations in prices. As Marx put it: "The value of commodities determined by labour time is only their average value.... The market value of commodities is always different from this average value and always stands either below or above it. The market value equates itself to the real value by means of its continual fluctuations, not by an equation with real value as some third thing, but precisely through continued inequality to itself.... Price, therefore, differs from value, not only as the nominal differs from the real; not only by its denomination in gold and silver; but also in that the latter appears as the law of the movements to which the former is subject. But they are always distinct and never coincide, or only quite fortuitously and exceptionally. The price of commodities always stands above or below their value, and the value of commodities itself exists only in the UPS AND DOWNS of commodity prices. Demand and supply continually determine the prices of commodities; they never coincide or do so only accidentally; but the costs of production determine for their part the fluctuations of demand and supply." 1 http://en.wikipedia.org... "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/19/2011 12:27:39 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 11:59:24 AM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote: The long run never occurs. As Marx put it: So Marx thinks value is some objective thing? I don't quite understand what he's saying. In so far as value and price are not the same thing, I agree. But I don't know what his definition of "value" is. |
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5/19/2011 12:36:49 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 12:27:39 PM, djsherin wrote:At 5/19/2011 11:59:24 AM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote: The ERE never occurs either. That doesn't mean that it isn't a useful construct. So Marx thinks value is some objective thing? I don't quite understand what he's saying. In so far as value and price are not the same thing, I agree. But I don't know what his definition of "value" is. Marx distinguished between use-value and exchange-value. When he just says value, he is referring solely to exchange-value. The exchange-value of a commodity is determined by its cost of production. "What we really ought to ask the liberal, before we even begin addressing his agenda, is this: In what kind of society would he be a conservative?" - Joseph Sobran |
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5/19/2011 12:41:01 PM Posted: 6 years ago At 5/19/2011 12:36:49 PM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/19/2011 12:27:39 PM, djsherin wrote:At 5/19/2011 11:59:24 AM, Reasoning wrote:At 5/18/2011 11:18:42 PM, askbob wrote: I was more or less talking about the ERE, and I didn't say it wasn't useful. But it doesn't explain prices in the real world, only hypothetically where they would be tending at any given period of time. So Marx thinks value is some objective thing? I don't quite understand what he's saying. In so far as value and price are not the same thing, I agree. But I don't know what his definition of "value" is. Right, so use-value is what he's referring to as "value" and exchange-value is what he's referring to as "price"? The exchange-value of a commodity is determined by its cost of production. Meh. |