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The economy will never boom again ?

interrogator
Posts: 1,322
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7/5/2011 11:29:42 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
Is this true or false ?
We are out of the dot.com age.
And you see the chaos on Wall Street and the housing market.
Not to mention the manufacturing base and the middle class's struggle
with regulations and loss of jobs. This deficit will not be turned into
a surplus under Obama. It is damn near impossible.
But what will be the smoking gun in the next 5 years now that the internet
has been created. Is there something even bigger out there and is it going
to come soon.
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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7/5/2011 5:48:33 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 11:29:42 AM, interrogator wrote:
Is this true or false ?
We are out of the dot.com age.
And you see the chaos on Wall Street and the housing market.
Not to mention the manufacturing base and the middle class's struggle
with regulations and loss of jobs. This deficit will not be turned into
a surplus under Obama. It is damn near impossible.
But what will be the smoking gun in the next 5 years now that the internet
has been created. Is there something even bigger out there and is it going
to come soon.

Just because a common consumer invention hasn't come along recently, doesn't mean that

A. Things aren't being invented anymore
B. The economy is in the shitter

Company I work at is turning out inventions all the time. I could name at least 5 that I work with on a daily basis that are going to be pretty huge.

Not to mention you're ignoring countless devices for consumers such as the kindle, ipad, Square, Google's new prius, the Antro car, the straddling bus, 3d bioprinter, genetcally engineered salmon, stealth helicopter, xflex blast protection, etc.

There's all kinds of crap happening, you're just asleep at the wheel.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
askbob
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7/5/2011 6:06:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

your problem with that?
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Tiel
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7/5/2011 8:04:23 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Opinion: A profit driven economy will always create an imbalance of wealth. The imbalance of wealth creates problems and unhappiness for people at the bottom end of the scale. This is a serious economic problem. The economy will boom again though. The market will crash to a point where it has the ability to raise back up to the point that made it crash. Then continue the inevitable cycle of inefficiency that such a system produces.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/5/2011 9:11:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 8:04:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
Opinion: A profit driven economy will always create an imbalance of wealth.

We are inherently unequal. Why should everyone have equal wealth? Even if people were born with equal talents, people would have different drives and motivation for money. Some people have a higher desire for money then others.

The imbalance of wealth creates problems and unhappiness for people at the bottom end of the scale.

If both parties have substantial wealth, but one has more then another: Why is that a problem? There will always be inequality, even if money was taken out of the system. Fame, differences in ability, ability to get laid, etc. are all examples of imbalances, yet are impossible to get rid of without an incredible amount of force, which would decrease happiness. Why should equality occur, just because others are jealous.

This not only isn't a problem, but something impossible to cure.

So why bother trying?
This is a serious economic problem. The economy will boom again though.

It isn't an economic problem. Peter Schiff believes that Americans live way beyond their means and don't produce enough.

The market will crash to a point where it has the ability to raise back up to the point that made it crash. Then continue the inevitable cycle of inefficiency that such a system produces.

What is your definition of inefficiency? In economics, production efficiency is when the greatest output is created with the least input. There is also pareto efficiency in which nobody is better off, without making someone worse off.

Also, please explain to me what you think causes crashes? There are many competing theories:
Real business cycle theory
Austrian Business cycle
Keynesian Economics
Others
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Tiel
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7/5/2011 10:45:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 9:11:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/5/2011 8:04:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
Opinion: A profit driven economy will always create an imbalance of wealth.

We are inherently unequal. Why should everyone have equal wealth? Even if people were born with equal talents, people would have different drives and motivation for money. Some people have a higher desire for money then others.

The imbalance of wealth creates problems and unhappiness for people at the bottom end of the scale.

If both parties have substantial wealth, but one has more then another: Why is that a problem? There will always be inequality, even if money was taken out of the system. Fame, differences in ability, ability to get laid, etc. are all examples of imbalances, yet are impossible to get rid of without an incredible amount of force, which would decrease happiness. Why should equality occur, just because others are jealous.

This not only isn't a problem, but something impossible to cure.

So why bother trying?
This is a serious economic problem. The economy will boom again though.

It isn't an economic problem. Peter Schiff believes that Americans live way beyond their means and don't produce enough.

The market will crash to a point where it has the ability to raise back up to the point that made it crash. Then continue the inevitable cycle of inefficiency that such a system produces.

What is your definition of inefficiency? In economics, production efficiency is when the greatest output is created with the least input. There is also pareto efficiency in which nobody is better off, without making someone worse off.

Also, please explain to me what you think causes crashes? There are many competing theories:
Real business cycle theory
Austrian Business cycle
Keynesian Economics
Others

Reply: All very interesting points and questions. I will try to answer them all efficiently once I get more time. I do love economic discussions very much.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
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7/5/2011 11:15:07 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

If you don't like weather changes, you can always live in the north pole....
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/6/2011 12:06:24 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 6:06:50 PM, askbob wrote:
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

your problem with that?

Not a fan of depressions, myself.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
FREEDO
Posts: 21,057
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7/6/2011 12:06:50 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 11:15:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

If you don't like weather changes, you can always live in the north pole....

The poles are the places most effected by global warming. Fail.
GRAND POOBAH OF DDO

fnord
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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7/6/2011 12:07:05 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 12:06:24 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/5/2011 6:06:50 PM, askbob wrote:
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

your problem with that?

Not a fan of depressions, myself.

When did they happen last? Oh yeah that's right.
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Grape
Posts: 989
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7/6/2011 12:17:57 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

Embrace the socialist alternative: one long continuous bust forever!
askbob
Posts: 7,254
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7/6/2011 12:18:26 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 12:17:57 AM, Grape wrote:
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

Embrace the socialist alternative: one long continuous bust forever!

I loll'd
Me -Phil left the site in my charge. I have a recorded phone conversation to prove it.
kohai -If you're the owner, then do something useful like ip block him and get us away from juggle and on a dofferent host!
Me -haha you apparently don't know my history
Kohai - Maybe not, but that doesn't matter! You shoukd still listen to your community and quit being a tyrrant!
Me - i was being completely sarcastic
Kohai - then u misrepresented yourself by impersonating the owner—a violation of the tos
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,251
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7/6/2011 1:39:40 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 12:06:50 AM, FREEDO wrote:
At 7/5/2011 11:15:07 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 7/5/2011 5:50:45 PM, FREEDO wrote:
So long as we have a Capitalist mode of production, there will be booms and busts over and over and over again.

If you don't like weather changes, you can always live in the north pole....

The poles are the places most effected by global warming. Fail.

Pretty sure there isn't much boom there no matter how much you fart.
timbeech
Posts: 948
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7/6/2011 3:46:53 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
@Grape

Retard. Next time you go buy yourself a new car ask yourself if there is enough head room, because the rate your ego is going you are going to have a really big head.

And no I really don't prefer socialism. Something about having to deal with other people's sh!t is not appealing to me. Have you ever cleaned a public restroom before? Yeah it gets pretty nasty.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/6/2011 3:49:04 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 3:46:53 PM, timbeech wrote:
@Grape

Retard. Next time you go buy yourself a new car ask yourself if there is enough head room, because the rate your ego is going you are going to have a really big head.

And no I really don't prefer socialism. Something about having to deal with other people's sh!t is not appealing to me. Have you ever cleaned a public restroom before? Yeah it gets pretty nasty.

wtf? How was that warranted at all.
Open borders debate:
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timbeech
Posts: 948
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7/6/2011 3:51:25 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 3:49:04 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/6/2011 3:46:53 PM, timbeech wrote:
@Grape

Retard. Next time you go buy yourself a new car ask yourself if there is enough head room, because the rate your ego is going you are going to have a really big head.

And no I really don't prefer socialism. Something about having to deal with other people's sh!t is not appealing to me. Have you ever cleaned a public restroom before? Yeah it gets pretty nasty.

wtf? How was that warranted at all.

Warranted or unwarranted, why do you care? lol
Tiel
Posts: 1,500
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7/6/2011 5:27:38 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Reply: I will try to answer all of your questions as best as I can.

At 7/5/2011 9:11:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/5/2011 8:04:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
Opinion: A profit driven economy will always create an imbalance of wealth.

We are inherently unequal. Why should everyone have equal wealth? Even if people were born with equal talents, people would have different drives and motivation for money. Some people have a higher desire for money then others.

Opinion: Survival needs should never be governed through your dependency on others or money.


The imbalance of wealth creates problems and unhappiness for people at the bottom end of the scale.

If both parties have substantial wealth, but one has more then another: Why is that a problem? There will always be inequality, even if money was taken out of the system. Fame, differences in ability, ability to get laid, etc. are all examples of imbalances, yet are impossible to get rid of without an incredible amount of force, which would decrease happiness. Why should equality occur, just because others are jealous.

Opinion: It's about having a system where all citizens basic needs are met efficiently. This can only be done through a system that supports self sufficiency. Being dependent on others for survival needs is a weak inefficient system to live in.

This not only isn't a problem, but something impossible to cure. So why bother trying?

Opinion: Nothing is impossible to cure.

This is a serious economic problem. The economy will boom again though.

It isn't an economic problem. Peter Schiff believes that Americans live way beyond their means and don't produce enough.

Opinion: Peter Schiff? Why should I care what he says? It is an economic problem, but it is an economic problem which was caused from a faulty social structure.

The market will crash to a point where it has the ability to raise back up to the point that made it crash. Then continue the inevitable cycle of inefficiency that such a system produces.

What is your definition of inefficiency? In economics, production efficiency is when the greatest output is created with the least input. There is also pareto efficiency in which nobody is better off, without making someone worse off.

Definition.com

inefficient

— adj
1.unable to perform a task or function to the best advantage; wasteful or incompetent.
2.unable to produce the desired result.


Also, please explain to me what you think causes crashes? There are many competing theories:
Real business cycle theory
Austrian Business cycle
Keynesian Economics
Others

Opinion: Imbalance causes crashes. Social imbalance causes crashes in a society efficiency to produce happiness in the most amount of people involved. Economic imbalance causes crashes in an economy's efficiency to provide stability of resources to all who are dependent on the economy for resources.

Comment: I hope that I have answered your questions efficiently throughout this post. Please elaborate on your perspective or any further questioning.

Thank you.
"Only the inner force of curiosity and wonder about the unknown, or an outer force upon your free will, can brake the shackles of your current perception."
Alien
Posts: 83
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7/6/2011 5:48:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Spirit of Tiel. >Greetings for this is ALIEN. I come from the outer world and a
far away universe. I find this politics to be quite intriguing to say the least.
This economy is indeed out of balance because of the Imperialistic and greedy
nature of Man. The Earth is in a state of depression and when she is not happy,
neither is Man. I pray that things will get better and soon, or we will be dealing
with a loss of identity. In some ways we already are. <<<
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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7/6/2011 5:50:29 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 5:48:12 PM, Alien wrote:
Spirit of Tiel. >Greetings for this is ALIEN. I come from the outer world and a
far away universe. I find this politics to be quite intriguing to say the least.
This economy is indeed out of balance because of the Imperialistic and greedy
nature of Man. The Earth is in a state of depression and when she is not happy,
neither is Man. I pray that things will get better and soon, or we will be dealing
with a loss of identity. In some ways we already are. <<<

Wait, are you actually an alien?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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7/6/2011 5:53:44 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 5:27:38 PM, Tiel wrote:
Reply: I will try to answer all of your questions as best as I can.

At 7/5/2011 9:11:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 7/5/2011 8:04:23 PM, Tiel wrote:
Opinion: A profit driven economy will always create an imbalance of wealth.

We are inherently unequal. Why should everyone have equal wealth? Even if people were born with equal talents, people would have different drives and motivation for money. Some people have a higher desire for money then others.

Opinion: Survival needs should never be governed through your dependency on others or money.

There's interdependence though so it's not negative. One can live totally free from trade, yet one's standard of living would decrease.


The imbalance of wealth creates problems and unhappiness for people at the bottom end of the scale.

If both parties have substantial wealth, but one has more then another: Why is that a problem? There will always be inequality, even if money was taken out of the system. Fame, differences in ability, ability to get laid, etc. are all examples of imbalances, yet are impossible to get rid of without an incredible amount of force, which would decrease happiness. Why should equality occur, just because others are jealous.

Opinion: It's about having a system where all citizens basic needs are met efficiently.

How do you define ones needs? Also, you need proof that your system provides a better alternative. More trade = more prosperity since it increases competition and creates specialization and comparative advantage.

This can only be done through a system that supports self sufficiency. Being dependent on others for survival needs is a weak inefficient system to live in.


You don't define inefficient. Interdependence creates more output with less input since it allows specialization in tasks.

This not only isn't a problem, but something impossible to cure. So why bother trying?

Opinion: Nothing is impossible to cure.

How and why get rid of inequality? Everyone will be unequal due to differences in ability. This is actually a positive thing.

This is a serious economic problem. The economy will boom again though.

It isn't an economic problem. Peter Schiff believes that Americans live way beyond their means and don't produce enough.

Opinion: Peter Schiff? Why should I care what he says?

He predicted the stock market crash and predicts more financial market meltdown. He has a good understanding of economics.

It is an economic problem, but it is an economic problem which was caused from a faulty social structure.

Again, no evidence. If you are going to make a claim about something, you have to use logic and make an argument that flows to make a supportive conclusion.


The market will crash to a point where it has the ability to raise back up to the point that made it crash. Then continue the inevitable cycle of inefficiency that such a system produces.

The economy isn't some see-saw. Recessions can be long or short. Economies can stagnate. Empires can fall.

What is your definition of inefficiency? In economics, production efficiency is when the greatest output is created with the least input. There is also pareto efficiency in which nobody is better off, without making someone worse off.

Definition.com

inefficient

— adj
1.unable to perform a task or function to the best advantage; wasteful or incompetent.
2.unable to produce the desired result.

best of advantage of what? How is the current system wasteful? What is the desired result?


Also, please explain to me what you think causes crashes? There are many competing theories:
Real business cycle theory
Austrian Business cycle
Keynesian Economics
Others

Opinion: Imbalance causes crashes. Social imbalance causes crashes in a society efficiency to produce happiness in the most amount of people involved. Economic imbalance causes crashes in an economy's efficiency to provide stability of resources to all who are dependent on the economy for resources.

This doesn't state anything. What is the imbalance? How does that cause a crash?

Comment: I hope that I have answered your questions efficiently throughout this post. Please elaborate on your perspective or any further questioning.

Thank you.

My main concern is that your explanation for economic crashes doesn't flow well. The same with your solution. These are both complex concepts that economists have struggled to figure out for over a century. There is still huge debate in the field. A quick couple of sentences isn't a complete theory. Keynes wrote a whole book on "The Theory of Employment, Interest, and Money" and his theory is still being updated and is contested. Same with Austrian economics.
Open borders debate:
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Alien
Posts: 83
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7/6/2011 5:56:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 5:50:29 PM, Denote wrote:
At 7/6/2011 5:48:12 PM, Alien wrote:
Spirit of Tiel. >Greetings for this is ALIEN. I come from the outer world and a
far away universe. I find this politics to be quite intriguing to say the least.
This economy is indeed out of balance because of the Imperialistic and greedy
nature of Man. The Earth is in a state of depression and when she is not happy,
neither is Man. I pray that things will get better and soon, or we will be dealing
with a loss of identity. In some ways we already are. <<<

Wait, are you actually an alien?

Denote. I am Alien. My people reside here daily as they secretly coexist among
your kind. You cannot recognize that which is unknown to you. But you MUST
understand, that we are here. << zmxnbglkhm
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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7/6/2011 5:57:26 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 5:56:26 PM, Alien wrote:
At 7/6/2011 5:50:29 PM, Denote wrote:
At 7/6/2011 5:48:12 PM, Alien wrote:
Spirit of Tiel. >Greetings for this is ALIEN. I come from the outer world and a
far away universe. I find this politics to be quite intriguing to say the least.
This economy is indeed out of balance because of the Imperialistic and greedy
nature of Man. The Earth is in a state of depression and when she is not happy,
neither is Man. I pray that things will get better and soon, or we will be dealing
with a loss of identity. In some ways we already are. <<<

Wait, are you actually an alien?

Denote. I am Alien. My people reside here daily as they secretly coexist among
your kind. You cannot recognize that which is unknown to you. But you MUST
understand, that we are here. << zmxnbglkhm

How can I trust you?
Alien
Posts: 83
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7/6/2011 6:02:19 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Denote. <<<< Information log in................... nvbamdlezmdns.z@2011. You
are a very curious mind little human. I cannot tell you everything about you or my
people as we are one as I told you before. You are only here to serve us for
reasons already disclosed. You are part of our project and we are examining everything that you do. But do not be afraid, you are safe as this experiment is
virutally harmless. Technically speaking that is. Mwhaaahaa. Ah, you are so
filled with angst and wonder. My censors are picking that up as I speak. I detect
confusion. But it is fully understandable and expected. Trust is not the issue
here Denote. It is your willingness to cooperate with is that matters.
Resistance is futile. < xnvmanglahpot
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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7/6/2011 6:11:18 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 6:02:19 PM, Alien wrote:
Denote. <<<< Information log in................... nvbamdlezmdns.z@2011. You
are a very curious mind little human. I cannot tell you everything about you or my
people as we are one as I told you before. You are only here to serve us for
reasons already disclosed. You are part of our project and we are examining everything that you do. But do not be afraid, you are safe as this experiment is
virutally harmless. Technically speaking that is. Mwhaaahaa. Ah, you are so
filled with angst and wonder. My censors are picking that up as I speak. I detect
confusion. But it is fully understandable and expected. Trust is not the issue
here Denote. It is your willingness to cooperate with is that matters.
Resistance is futile. < xnvmanglahpot

You're all talk.
Rusty
Posts: 2,109
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7/6/2011 6:20:50 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 7/6/2011 6:17:33 PM, Alien wrote:
Denote. You can trust me if you desire. I am not interested in your weak and useless attributes as a human being.

Sorry, that got boring fast
Alien
Posts: 83
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7/6/2011 6:28:02 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Denote. So you dare mock me. I find you to be amusing at best. Your logic is
like that of a female. You are only driven by emotions. I pity you.