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do we need stimulas

flames
Posts: 69
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8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs
TheAtheistAllegiance
Posts: 1,251
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8/12/2011 3:54:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

For one, we don't have any money, so it's out of the question. Two, a lot of the problems in the US economy are structural, and a short-term stimulus probably won't do much of any good.

Plus, there's the whole argument that a stimulus would distort prices and market signals, thus only making things worse, and/or it would prevent wages and prices from falling, thus hindering from capital moving around in the economy into more productive/profitable outlets, which would prolong the recession.
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/12/2011 9:33:09 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.

this. Also, it should be noted that most people in the US are in debt, so there's a pretty good reason why there is no demand. You can't exactly go around spending everything when you are debt.

Most currency reserve is in china and foreign nations, so If you want to actually stimulate the economy, the US has to start producing for China, not for itself. Our bill is due.
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Kiff
Posts: 5
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8/16/2011 5:47:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the American economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrastructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so businesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for American made products from American consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

Stimulus spending has failed and will to continue to fail because it is an ill conceived misguided attempt to apply Keynesian economics. Advocates of stimulus spending focus only on one part of Keynes theory which is a fiscal spending policy that theoretically raises the demand for products and thus the labor to produce those products. Keep in mind that in 1932 the global economy was not as active or fluid. The U.S. was basically self-sufficient. Until the 1980s, the U.S. had a trade surplus. Now the trade deficit is around $53 billion (6% of GDP). In 1932, the products to be produced were produced in the U.S. Today, a sizable chuck of that stimulus is spent on foreign imports, namely oil. That does well for Canada, Mexico and Saudi Arabia, not forgetting the stuff we buy from China. How is that producing jobs in the U.S.?

Then there is the problem of following through with the Keynesian theory. When the economy is booming, the government should reduce spending and raise taxes to pay down the stimulus debt. Fat chance. Every time we get a booming economy, we want to accelerate it, eliminate responsible fiscal policy (e.g. repeal of Glass Steagall Act) in order to facilitate reckless growth with financial tricks (e.g. credit default swaps).

Our political cycles are shorter than economic cycles, so when the economy peaks, politicians who want to get re-elected will not pursue the correct fiscal policy of raising taxes and contracting the money supply. They all "kick the can down the road" so that when a recession finally, inevitably, hits, it's a complete disaster. Our political structure will simply not allow Keynesian theory to be applied correctly. So, why are we trying to implement an outdated theory that is politically impossible to fully implement? I don't know what the solution would be, but I do know that when you find yourself in a deep hole, you need to stop digging.
PARADIGM_L0ST
Posts: 6,958
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8/16/2011 6:21:30 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
Stimulus spending has failed and will to continue to fail because it is an ill conceived misguided attempt to apply Keynesian economics. Advocates of stimulus spending focus only on one part of Keynes theory which is a fiscal spending policy that theoretically raises the demand for products and thus the labor to produce those products. Keep in mind that in 1932 the global economy was not as active or fluid. The U.S. was basically self-sufficient. Until the 1980s, the U.S. had a trade surplus. Now the trade deficit is around $53 billion (6% of GDP). In 1932, the products to be produced were produced in the U.S. Today, a sizable chuck of that stimulus is spent on foreign imports, namely oil. That does well for Canada, Mexico and Saudi Arabia, not forgetting the stuff we buy from China. How is that producing jobs in the U.S.?

Then there is the problem of following through with the Keynesian theory. When the economy is booming, the government should reduce spending and raise taxes to pay down the stimulus debt. Fat chance. Every time we get a booming economy, we want to accelerate it, eliminate responsible fiscal policy (e.g. repeal of Glass Steagall Act) in order to facilitate reckless growth with financial tricks (e.g. credit default swaps).

Our political cycles are shorter than economic cycles, so when the economy peaks, politicians who want to get re-elected will not pursue the correct fiscal policy of raising taxes and contracting the money supply. They all "kick the can down the road" so that when a recession finally, inevitably, hits, it's a complete disaster. Our political structure will simply not allow Keynesian theory to be applied correctly. So, why are we trying to implement an outdated theory that is politically impossible to fully implement? I don't know what the solution would be, but I do know that when you find yourself in a deep hole, you need to stop digging.:

THIS
"Have you ever considered suicide? If not, please do." -- Mouthwash (to Inferno)
Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/16/2011 6:25:11 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/12/2011 9:33:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.

this. Also, it should be noted that most people in the US are in debt, so there's a pretty good reason why there is no demand. You can't exactly go around spending everything when you are debt.

Most currency reserve is in china and foreign nations, so If you want to actually stimulate the economy, the US has to start producing for China, not for itself. Our bill is due.

It doesn't really matter who we produce for. As long as we start building stuff, and bringing up our GDP, our wages, and our revenue (along with spending cuts), we can get the debt taken care of. Simply producing for China does not take care of the debt. Not unless it is the Chinese government that is buying our goods (which they'll cash in debt for goods, and so it is more like our government is buying goods and sending to china).
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
flames
Posts: 69
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8/17/2011 9:09:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
shouldn't the government do another stimulas to create jobs rather then just hand out money

that will also give the private sector confidence to hire as well
Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/17/2011 9:15:12 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 9:09:17 PM, flames wrote:
shouldn't the government do another stimulas to create jobs rather then just hand out money

that will also give the private sector confidence to hire as well

How is the government an expert on what kind of jobs the country needs? Or do you really think the government should just stimulate brick punching jobs? Like GM super socialist pension union corp?
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/17/2011 10:07:00 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/16/2011 6:25:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 9:33:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.

this. Also, it should be noted that most people in the US are in debt, so there's a pretty good reason why there is no demand. You can't exactly go around spending everything when you are debt.

Most currency reserve is in china and foreign nations, so If you want to actually stimulate the economy, the US has to start producing for China, not for itself. Our bill is due.

It doesn't really matter who we produce for. As long as we start building stuff, and bringing up our GDP, our wages, and our revenue (along with spending cuts), we can get the debt taken care of. Simply producing for China does not take care of the debt. Not unless it is the Chinese government that is buying our goods (which they'll cash in debt for goods, and so it is more like our government is buying goods and sending to china).

It makes a big difference who one produces to. You tend to produce products that people with money would want. Those who are in debt can't exactly afford nice stuff.
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Greyparrot
Posts: 14,239
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8/17/2011 10:11:47 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 10:07:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:

It makes a big difference who one produces to. You tend to produce products that people with money would want. Those who are in debt can't exactly afford nice stuff.

Sure they can.

The only people that can not afford nice stuff are people whose debt increases exceed their income increases.
darkkermit
Posts: 11,204
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8/17/2011 10:14:13 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 10:11:47 PM, Greyparrot wrote:
At 8/17/2011 10:07:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:

It makes a big difference who one produces to. You tend to produce products that people with money would want. Those who are in debt can't exactly afford nice stuff.

Sure they can.

The only people that can not afford nice stuff are people whose debt increases exceed their income increases.

They can afford stuff, just not nice stuff. The greater the debt, the greater I have to cut back on consumption.
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Ore_Ele
Posts: 25,980
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8/18/2011 5:13:17 PM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/17/2011 10:07:00 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/16/2011 6:25:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 9:33:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.

this. Also, it should be noted that most people in the US are in debt, so there's a pretty good reason why there is no demand. You can't exactly go around spending everything when you are debt.

Most currency reserve is in china and foreign nations, so If you want to actually stimulate the economy, the US has to start producing for China, not for itself. Our bill is due.

It doesn't really matter who we produce for. As long as we start building stuff, and bringing up our GDP, our wages, and our revenue (along with spending cuts), we can get the debt taken care of. Simply producing for China does not take care of the debt. Not unless it is the Chinese government that is buying our goods (which they'll cash in debt for goods, and so it is more like our government is buying goods and sending to china).

It makes a big difference who one produces to. You tend to produce products that people with money would want. Those who are in debt can't exactly afford nice stuff.

The people without money are creating demand (not real demand at least). What I mean, is that it doesn't matter is a wealthy chinaman, a wealthy american, or a wealthy german is the one buying the goods.
"Wanting Red Rhino Pill to have gender"
Kiff
Posts: 5
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9/1/2011 12:52:18 AM
Posted: 5 years ago
At 8/16/2011 6:25:11 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/12/2011 9:33:09 PM, darkkermit wrote:
At 8/12/2011 3:59:37 PM, Ore_Ele wrote:
At 8/11/2011 10:38:16 PM, flames wrote:
to create jobs to create demand in the economy again

right now the american economy relies on consumer spending to many people don't have jobs and to many are scared to spend

create infrustructure jobs and put millions back to work who can spend so buisnesses can make money and employee people

the more demand their is for american made products from american consumers and global consumers the more jobs that will be created but people need to have money to spend to create demand and to have that money they need jobs

90% of the workforce is currently working, so there is demand.

Stimulus typically works great to generate more demand, however, the object is that when the economy turns around and starts doing better, you wane them off of the stimulus, and get yourself back into a surplus to start saving up for the next bump in the road. Our problem is that we never did that. We never saved up a rainy day fund.

this. Also, it should be noted that most people in the US are in debt, so there's a pretty good reason why there is no demand. You can't exactly go around spending everything when you are debt.

Most currency reserve is in china and foreign nations, so If you want to actually stimulate the economy, the US has to start producing for China, not for itself. Our bill is due.

It doesn't really matter who we produce for. As long as we start building stuff, and bringing up our GDP, our wages, and our revenue (along with spending cuts), we can get the debt taken care of. Simply producing for China does not take care of the debt. Not unless it is the Chinese government that is buying our goods (which they'll cash in debt for goods, and so it is more like our government is buying goods and sending to china).

The Chinese government does not think like capitalists. I believe that the Chinese view economics as a form of warfare and a zero-sum game. They subsidize their industries and purposely devalue their currency to keep goods flowing out. They are not going to cash in their debt for our goods. Their government wants to maintain a growing trade deficit in their favor. They do not view our debt as an asset. They view it as political leverage.